The "Carolina Way"

[iommi]

One admin. One player. One paper. And yet they dropped the EFFIN HAMMER on us. Why? Lack of Institutional Control. If the UNC scandal isn't a bigger case of a Lack of Institutional Control, I don't know what is.

I'd say they showed total control... They perfected their sham for almost two full decades... Until their house of cards fell down.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Why would it be LOIC for UNC when it was literally nothing for Duke, Michigan, and Auburn?

Dude, the environment has changed. The NCAA is on the war path. They have to make themselves look relevant and they can't be perceived to be playing favorites anymore. If the NCAA wants a bajillion court cases, they let UNC skate. If they don't want a bajillion court cases, then the punishment is at least comparable to similar "crimes". Pressure reopened the case, and pressure to appear even handed, good, bad or otherwise, will play a role in what they do from now on. Like I said, a successful appeal for Syracuse is good for UNC.

You guys are in the crosshairs whether you want to admit it or not, Wainstein Report be damned.

 

[kirbivore]

Screwed. They better get ripped

Swofford is staying quiet about SU to save all political capital in saving dear old UNC

 

[NineOneSeven]

Why would it be LOIC for UNC when it was literally nothing for Duke, Michigan, and Auburn?

 

[itsbotime]

Dude, the environment has changed. The NCAA is on the war path. They have to make themselves look relevant and they can't be perceived to be playing favorites anymore. If the NCAA wants a bajillion court cases, they let UNC skate. They don't want a bajillion court cases. Pressure reopened the case, and pressure to appear even handed, good, bad or otherwise, will play a role in what they do from now on. Like I said, a successful appeal for Syracuse is good for UNC.

You guys are in the crosshairs whether you want to admit it or not, Wainstein Report be damned.

I disagree. The NCAA doesn't want to slam one of their biggest brands for doing something that they let their other brands skate on. They don't want to put an and to that system, because they know that would mean the end of the NCAA. UNC and the NCAA have the same enemy. Keep in mind the supposed "whistleblower" at UNC wrote a letter to Obama asking him to make NCAA March Madness a crime. The NCAA doesn't want to side with people like that.

 

[Paul OLeary]

Of the 5 Stages of Grief, I would bet - as a UNC defender - your in stage 1 (Denial and Isolation) whereas most Cuse fans seem to be in Stage #4 (Depression) and heading to Stage 5 (Acceptance). I'm sure you will experience Stage 2 (Anger) like we did when UNC gets screwed in the tourney as we did against OSU in 2012. There is no way the NCAA wants a team - or the refs will allow - a team to crash the FF with baggage that UNC is carrying right now.

Love,

Dr. Phi

 

[rrlbees]

Zero fake classes. Have you read the Wainstein Report?

Quote

UNC said in a written statement. “These counselors saw the paper classes and the artificially high grades they yielded as key to helping some student-athletes remain eligible.”

 

[PeteCalvin]

I disagree. The NCAA doesn't want to slam one of their biggest brands for doing something that they let their other brands skate on. They don't want to put an and to that system, because they know that would mean the end of the NCAA. UNC and the NCAA have the same enemy. Keep in mind the supposed "whistleblower" at UNC wrote a letter to Obama asking him to make NCAA March Madness a crime. The NCAA doesn't want to side with people like that.

Biggest brand doesn't mean squat anymore. Syracuse is a big brand. We have a Hall of Fame coach. I doesn't get much more high profile than that. If UNC skates and SU's appeals fail, you better believe that the NCAA will be buried in court, and it will get ugly for them. They would be openly inviting the Power 5 to split for good. They are probably doing that anyway. Nope. The NCAA is about self preservation, and they fuucked themselves with the Syracuse punishment (and retractions of the previous two high profile sanctions to PSU and Miami). Believe what you want.

 

[rrlbees]

They never apologized for fake courses. They apologized for the independent studies courses, for reasons that I already listed above.

More from UNC when after that secretary retired and the football teams GPA fell to its lowest in over a decade with 40+ players below a 2.0.

Presented to the football coaches.

In the meeting, two members of the football counseling staff explained to the assembled coaches that the classes “had played a large role in keeping underprepared and/or unmotivated players eligible to play.” To emphasize this point, they presented a PowerPoint demonstration in which one of the slides asked and then answered the question, “What was part of the solution in the past?”
“We put them in classes that met degree requirements in which … they didn’t go to class … they didn’t have to take notes, have to stay awake … they didn’t have to meet with professors … they didn’t have to pay attention or necessarily engage with the material,” the slide said. “THESE NO LONGER EXIST!”
The report indicated tha

 

[itsbotime]

Quote

UNC said in a written statement. “These counselors saw the paper classes and the artificially high grades they yielded as key to helping some student-athletes remain eligible.”

Where does that say anything about fake classes again? The counselors knew the courses were easy. They also knew that the courses required work. Same thing Stanford did when they got busted giving their athletes a list of "easy A" courses that no one else knew about. Pushing athletes towards easy classes is not an NCAA violation.

Not to mention, from the same press release:

"Mr. Wainstein’s investigation found no indication of wrongdoing in any academic departments beyond AFAM, that no current coaches were involved or aware and that the reported wrongdoing ended in 2011."

Also from the report:

"While the ASPSA basketball counselor –McSwain and then Walden – would occasionally suggest these classes, they did not routinely steer players into the classes without the players’ knowledge. More often than not, the basketball players found these classes either through referrals from their teammates – "locker room advising" – or via their direct relationship with Crowder, who always maintained close ties among the basketball team. Moreover, unlike the football players who largely conceded that these classes held little educational value, several of the basketball players insisted that they read extensively and worked hard to produce their papers for these classes."

 

[itsbotime]

More from UNC when after that secretary retired and the football teams GPA fell to its lowest in over a decade with 40+ players below a 2.0.

Presented to the football coaches.

In the meeting, two members of the football counseling staff explained to the assembled coaches that the classes “had played a large role in keeping underprepared and/or unmotivated players eligible to play.” To emphasize this point, they presented a PowerPoint demonstration in which one of the slides asked and then answered the question, “What was part of the solution in the past?”
“We put them in classes that met degree requirements in which … they didn’t go to class … they didn’t have to take notes, have to stay awake … they didn’t have to meet with professors … they didn’t have to pay attention or necessarily engage with the material,” the slide said. “THESE NO LONGER EXIST!”
The report indicated tha

Right, why wouldn't they? Duke, Michigan, and Auburn had already been caught doing the same thing, and the NCAA said "no foul." The classes didn't meet UNC's standards, but they weren't, according to the NCAA's own past rulings, violations.

 

[rrlbees]

Where does that say anything about fake classes again? The counselors knew the courses were easy. They also knew that the courses required work. Same thing Stanford did when they got busted giving their athletes a list of "easy A" courses that no one else knew about. Pushing athletes towards easy classes is not an NCAA violation. Not to mention, from the same press release: "Mr. Wainstein’s investigation found no indication of wrongdoing in any academic departments beyond AFAM, that no current coaches were involved or aware and that the reported wrongdoing ended in 2011." Also from the report: "While the ASPSA basketball counselor –McSwain and then Walden – would occasionally suggest these classes, they did not routinely steer players into the classes without the players’ knowledge. More often than not, the basketball players found these classes either through referrals from their teammates – "locker room advising" – or via their direct relationship with Crowder, who always maintained close ties among the basketball team. Moreover, unlike the football players who largely conceded that these classes held little educational value, several of the basketball players insisted that they read extensively and worked hard to produce their papers for these classes."

I'll take unc's words over a baked report. They said athletes were steered to the classes.

 

[itsbotime]

I'll take unc's words over a baked report. They said athletes were steered to the classes.

Right, they were steered to easy classes, along with other students. Nothing about that is an NCAA violation. See: Stanford, Duke, Michigan, Auburn...or any other university.

 

[CusefanATL]

That puts a lot of pressure on the NCAA, unless of course they think no show classes are ok. That would be the only plausible explanation that UNC gets the same or less punishment than the Cuse. Otherwise it should be at least twice as worse but seriously how would the NCAA even quantify a punishment.

The same or less? What in the world?

They are staring a 5 yr postseason ban, 25 yr probation, 60 scholarship, 600 wins and 2 titles vacated right in the face.

And thats only if the NCAA determines this to be 5x worse.

They should actually be looking at a 25 yr postseason ban, 125 yr probation, 300 scholarship, 2750 wins and 2 titles if they think its 25x worse (which is realistic)

 

[rrlbees]

Right, why wouldn't they? Duke, Michigan, and Auburn had already been caught doing the same thing, and the NCAA said "no foul." The classes didn't meet UNC's standards, but they weren't, according to the NCAA's own past rulings, violations.

Keep dreaming. Unc already admitted guilt. You're getting a 2 year ban, maybe 3 and probably deserve 5. Unc cheated and admitted this was done to keep athletes eligible. They admitted that. Over 1,000 athletes over a sustained period of time. No professors. No classes. A secretary handing out grades. Just 200 course numbers.

You're screwed.

 

[itsbotime]

The same or less? What in the world?

They are staring a 5 yr postseason ban, 25 yr probation, 60 scholarship, 600 wins and 2 titles vacated right in the face.

And thats only if the NCAA determines this to be 5x worse.

They should actually be looking at a 25 yr postseason ban, 125 yr probation, 300 scholarship, 2750 wins and 2 titles if they think its 25x worse (which is realistic)

What Syracuse did was much worse than what UNC was accused of. You are delusional.

 

[iommi]

Right, why wouldn't they? Duke, Michigan, and Auburn had already been caught doing the same thing, and the NCAA said "no foul." The classes didn't meet UNC's standards, but they weren't, according to the NCAA's own past rulings, violations.

What are you not comprehending? Your point (that you've been making over and over again for months) that the NCAA doesn't follow precedent is, of course, 100% correct. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get hammered for this. You are a broken record.

If the hammer does not fall on UNC...and I am a sceptical that it will...only because Duke and UNC play by a different set of rules...then as Pete Calvin said, the NCAA is F'ed...with a capital F.

 

[itsbotime]

Keep dreaming. Unc already admitted guilt. You're getting a 2 year ban, maybe 3 and probably deserve 5. Unc cheated and admitted this was done to keep athletes eligible. They admitted that. Over 1,000 athletes over a sustained period of time. No professors. No classes. A secretary handing out grades. Just 200 course numbers.

You're screwed.

False. Nothing you have said has been true. UNC won't get a thing, and they don't deserve a thing. UNC is much more likely to hang two or three more banners than it ever is to have one taken down.

 

[iommi]

What Syracuse did was much worse than what UNC was accused of. You are delusional.

Now I am done engaging a you. You are obviously trolling. Bye.

 

[itsbotime]

What are you not comprehending? Your point (that you've been making over and over again for months) that the NCAA doesn't follow precedent is, of course, 100% correct. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get hammered for this. You are a broken record.

If the hammer does not fall on UNC...and I am a sceptical that it will...only because Duke and UNC play by a different set of rules...then as Pete Calvin said, the NCAA is F'ed...with a capital F.

Disagree. The NCAA is screwed if they play favorites. Knowing that they specifically ruled that these classes were "OK" with their previous rulings, they would get hammered in court if they punished UNC for something that they previously said was OK with them.

 

[CusefanATL]

What Syracuse did was much worse than what UNC was accused of. You are delusional.

are you serious?

what did syracuse do exactly?

 

[rrlbees]

Right, they were steered to easy classes, along with other students. Nothing about that is an NCAA violation. See: Stanford, Duke, Michigan, Auburn...or any other university.

You use the word easy instead of didn't exist. Unc already admitted they were paper classes with no professor and a secretary handing out grades to keep kids eligible. That's not easy nor independent. That's nonexistent.

 

[itsbotime]

are you serious?

what did syracuse do exactly?

$600k slush fund, ignoring drug test violations, basketball admin doing work for students for starters. At least UNC's players did their own work, and, according to the Wainstein Report, worked hard at doing so.

 

[itsbotime]

You use the word easy instead of didn't exist. Unc already admitted they were paper classes with no professor and a secretary handing out grades to keep kids eligible. That's not easy nor independent. That's nonexistent.

You have different conclusions than Mr. Wainstein. Given that he and his investigators spend months and months and hundreds of thousands of man hours investigating the courses, I think most people would take his word over yours.

 

[rrlbees]

False. Nothing you have said has been true. UNC won't get a thing, and they don't deserve a thing. UNC is much more likely to hang two or three more banners than it ever is to have one taken down.

Read your own unc statements. It's all there and I quoted some of it.