The Center position (College and Pro)...

[bpo57]

Back in the 60s and 70s basketball (particularly the NBA) was dominated by great centers. Wilt, Russell, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond (more for his defense), Bob Lanier, Artis Gilmore and Bill Walton (phenomenal until injuries set in) to name a few.

I was recently watching tape of Kareem Abdul Jabbar when he was with the Milwaukee Bucks. I remember watching him as a kid and the impression now was the same. If you cloned that guy in his prime and he came back today to face the NBA's best he would annihilate them. How many athletes (in any sport) from 40 years ago can you say that about? Sky hook was unstoppable and had range on it out to 12 feet. Guy was nearly 7'2" and actually had hops. Could face the basket with a decent jumper and had an array of moves that were unstoppable. Anyhow what happened to the center position in basketball? Level of play at that position has declined considerably over time.

 

[Toga]

Wilt would dominate. A healthy Walton was fun to watch on those Trailblazers teams.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Anyhow what happened to the center position in basketball? Level of play at that position has declined considerably over time.

ESPN happened. Slam dunks and the 3pt line. Different game now. Even Clifford Ray would dominate now.

 

[skurey]

I predict this thread will turn into olds vs youngs

 

[MCC]

Back in the 60s and 70s basketball (particularly the NBA) was dominated by great centers. Wilt, Russell, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond (more for his defense), Bob Lanier, Artis Gilmore and Bill Walton (phenomenal until injuries set in) to name a few.

I was recently watching tape of Kareem Abdul Jabbar when he was with the Milwaukee Bucks. I remember watching him as a kid and the impression now was the same. If you cloned that guy in his prime and he came back today to face the NBA's best he would annihilate them. How many athletes (in any sport) from 40 years ago can you say that about? Sky hook was unstoppable and had range on it out to 12 feet. Guy was nearly 7'2" and actually had hops. Could face the basket with a decent jumper and had an array of moves that were unstoppable. Anyhow what happened to the center position in basketball? Level of play at that position has declined considerably over time.

Kareem is my all time favorite player. His range on the hook went even further, out to 15'. As you say he would have ANNIHILATED any of the centers around today. He would have owned Shaq (and I think Shaq was terrific). No one could do a damn thing about the skyhook. The guy destroyed the vaunted Celtics front line in the 1985 finals to get the MVP at the age of 38.

Plus he hit 72% of his free throws over his career .

 

[hoopsupstate]

Jabbar could score on anyone. That shot can't be guarded. He was amazing to watch growing up and would dominate the NBA today.

 

[CuseHulk]

Wilt would dominate. A healthy Walton was fun to watch on those Trailblazers teams.

I'd take Shaq over all of them.

 

[ORRange]

In any sport? I think if you dominated in baseball forty years ago, you would still dominate now. Also, jockeys...lol.

 

[pfister1]

In any sport? I think if you dominated in baseball forty years ago, you would still dominate now. Also, jockeys...lol.

Baseball is an interesting question. They've changed the game so much, that it's hard to know.

-Mound was lowered.
-Pitchers are on tight pitch count leashes and don't develop the stamina that guys in the old days used to
-MLB has taken away the brush back pitch and to a large extent the ability to really pitch inside.
-Strike zone is smaller
-PEDs
-Home run is over valued (to the point that guys will hit into an extreme shift rather than take the wide open side of the field to try to get hits)

 

[orange79]

I predict this thread will turn into olds vs youngs

Get off my lawn!

 

[SUintheVille]

And to think, Kareem also was a co-pilot named Roger Murdock (for those who remember Airplane)!

 

[Brooky03]

Eh, it's easy to remember just the greats and say the skill at the position has declined in comparison. There were plenty of stinkers back in the day, too.

The guys who are really good now, would still be really good if we sent them back in time. Dwight Howard isn't the best center in the league, but put him against centers from 2+ decades ago and who's stopping him? Very few could match him physically, that's for sure. Nowitzki would still be a lethal jump shooter, Love wouldn't have any trouble doing what he wants, Anthony Davis would be a freak still, Tim Duncan would murder. I know I did the same as the OP and just talked about the best players at the position, but I think if we continued down the line, we wouldn't see a dropoff in ability or versatility of today's centers. In fact, I'd argue big men have improved over the years significantly more than guards.

 

[Ghost]

I'd take Shaq over all of them.

I think this is probably the case - teams were essentially allowed to foul Shaq consistently throughout the game. He was too big to be stopped - so they kind of had to let it go to a certain extent. He had to absorb an amazing amount of contact though - with relatively few calls comparatively. Nobody could deal with him - he was just too big/strong.

Probably the same for Russel or Wilt who were freakishly strong, but less so for Kareem I would imagine.

 

[MCC]

Eh, it's easy to remember just the greats and say the skill at the position has declined in comparison. There were plenty of stinkers back in the day, too.

The guys who are really good now, would still be really good if we sent them back in time. Dwight Howard isn't the best center in the league, but put him against centers from 2+ decades ago and who's stopping him? Very few could match him physically, that's for sure.

Howard would get destroyed by Olajuwon, Robinson, Moses Malone, Wilt, young Shaq, and of course Kareem. Dwight has no offensive game and can't make FTs. Kevin McHale - really more of a 4 - would make him look silly. Dwight's just not that good - although his numbers are relatively gaudy in today's NBA. I do think the C position has really dropped off.

That said, I think every other position has improved dramatically - both in skill and size.

 

[SUintheVille]

How about dynamic duos? Which 2 would you take on your team today? I'm sure there are plenty others.

-Kareem/Magic
-Bird/McHale
-Jordon/Pippin
-Malone/Stockton
-Russell/Cousy
-Shaq/Kobe
-Dr. J/Moses Malone
-Olajawon/Drexler
-Reed/Frazier
-LeBron/DWade?

 

[bpo57]

Eh, it's easy to remember just the greats and say the skill at the position has declined in comparison. There were plenty of stinkers back in the day, too.

The guys who are really good now, would still be really good if we sent them back in time. Dwight Howard isn't the best center in the league, but put him against centers from 2+ decades ago and who's stopping him? Very few could match him physically, that's for sure. Nowitzki would still be a lethal jump shooter, Love wouldn't have any trouble doing what he wants, Anthony Davis would be a freak still, Tim Duncan would murder. I know I did the same as the OP and just talked about the best players at the position, but I think if we continued down the line, we wouldn't see a dropoff in ability or versatility of today's centers. In fact, I'd argue big men have improved over the years significantly more than guards.

No offense but I couldn't disagree with you more. You mentioned Dwight Howard isn't the best center in the league which provokes the question - who is the best center in the league? As for Dwight Howard - lol he has plenty of room in his trophy case for his next NBA championship.

That's the beauty of youtube in that at least you can go back and watch the greats of the past in action. KAJ would school Dwight Howard beyond belief. It would get ugly in a hurry. I like Tim Duncan a lot. Class player, champion and very fundamentally sound (hence the nickname the "Big Fundamental") but Duncan would be completely overwhelmed by somebody like Wilt or KAJ. I'm not one of those that thinks that old school is better than today's players. Generally that is not the case. Except for the center position. The greats back in the day dominated the action in ways that rarely happen today.

 

[MCC]

I think this is probably the case - teams were essentially allowed to foul Shaq consistently throughout the game. He was too big to be stopped - so they kind of had to let it go to a certain extent. He had to absorb an amazing amount of contact though - with relatively few calls comparatively. Nobody could deal with him - he was just too big/strong.

Probably the same for Russel or Wilt who were freakishly strong, but less so for Kareem I would imagine.

Kareem would score on Shaq (and anyone else) at will. He was an outstanding shot blocker and would give Shaq fits on D, though I definitely concur very few Cs would be strong enough to slow / stop Shaq consistently (Wilt is probably the only one) so Shaq would get his dunks - but I suspect not much else.

 

[bpo57]

How about dynamic duos? Which 2 would you take on your team today? I'm sure there are plenty others.

-Kareem/Magic
-Bird/McHale
-Jordon/Pippin
-Malone/Stockton
-Russell/Cousy
-Shaq/Kobe
-Dr. J/Moses Malone
-Olajawon/Drexler
-Reed/Frazier
-LeBron/DWade?

Wow those are some great combos. I'd throw Wilt/West in there although both were a little past there prime when they played together. I'd probably choose Kareem/Magic although Jabbar was a bit past his prime at that point, too. Jordan and anybody with a pulse would be in the top five.

 

[Toga]

How about dynamic duos? Which 2 would you take on your team today? I'm sure there are plenty others.

-Kareem/Magic
-Bird/McHale
-Jordon/Pippin
-Malone/Stockton
-Russell/Cousy
-Shaq/Kobe
-Dr. J/Moses Malone
-Olajawon/Drexler
-Reed/Frazier
-LeBron/DWade?

Everything looks so good but would have to go with Kareem and Magic. How about Wilt and Jerry West?

 

[Toga]

Wow those are some great combos. I'd throw Wilt/West in there although both were a little past there prime when they played together. I'd probably choose Kareem/Magic although Jabbar was a bit past his prime at that point, too. Jordan and anybody with a pulse would be in the top five.

Jesus

 

[Ghost]

Kareem would score on Shaq (and anyone else) at will. He was an outstanding shot blocker and would give Shaq fits on D, though I definitely concur very few Cs would be strong enough to slow / stop Shaq consistently (Wilt is probably the only one) so Shaq would get his dunks - but I suspect not much else.

Kareem/Olaujawon both had unstoppable shots.

 

[Cusefannotindc]

http://grantland.com/features/department-of-defense/

 

[bpo57]

I think the Howard chart speaks to the current inadequacy at the C position as much as it does to Howard's proficiency as a defender.

 

[Col. Bleep]

How come Zelmo Beaty is never mentioned in these discussions?
He did average 17/11 over his career.
OK...he's not Russell, Wilt or Shaq.
But he's got to be on the all-time NBA best name team.

 

[Brooky03]

Howard would get destroyed by Olajuwon, Robinson, Moses Malone, Wilt, young Shaq, and of course Kareem. Dwight has no offensive game and can't make FTs. Kevin McHale - really more of a 4 - would make him look silly. Dwight's just not that good - although his numbers are relatively gaudy in today's NBA. I do think the C position has really dropped off.

That said, I think every other position has improved dramatically - both in skill and size.

I'm not a huge Dwight fan, but he would physically overpower half that list.

Edit: Not that I'm saying Dwight would outproduce any of them; I don't think he would.