The drip on this Brady case shows how awful a commish Roger Goodell truly is | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

The drip on this Brady case shows how awful a commish Roger Goodell truly is

Melancer46 said:
To me, the circumstantial evidence seems to be enough to meet the low burden of proof, but it's not really up to you or myself to decide. They don't need to prove that Brady knew about what was going on. They just have to prove that he probably did. If they have enough proof to support their argument that the balls were under-inflated, then I believe it's pretty simple to prove that Brady probably knew about it, and the Wells Report certainly seems to suggest he did based upon the text messages and phone records.
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low burden of proof of what? There is nothing on the books beyond an equipment violation and fine of 25k?
They don't have to prove Brady ordered the balls deflated? What? So, if the NFLPA can prove that the Denver and Dallas(when the 2 players signed identical contracts) were generally aware of what each was going to pay Dez Bryant or Demarius Thomas shouldn't they be guilty of collusion and be penalized?

They can't even prove the balls were deflated because of pressure being taken out or the weather? That is science ideal gas law stuff.

The truth is the NFL cares not one iota about getting it right, and certainly care about hammering the Patriots. They do care, however, about trying to look good. And adding more arbitrary regulations to an already arbitrary standard makes it look – at least to the general populace – like they’re doing something productive. Read Mike Florio's piece where owners are quoted as saying all they care about is Goodell looking out of this case instead of saying getting it right.
 
Alsacs said:
low burden of proof of what? There is nothing on the books beyond an equipment violation and fine of 25k?
They don't have to prove Brady ordered the balls deflated? What? So, if the NFLPA can prove that the Denver and Dallas(when the 2 players signed identical contracts) were generally aware of what each was going to pay Dez Bryant or Demarius Thomas shouldn't they be guilty of collusion and be penalized?

They can't even prove the balls were deflated because of pressure being taken out or the weather? That is science ideal gas law stuff.

The truth is the NFL cares not one iota about getting it right, and certainly care about hammering the Patriots. They do care, however, about trying to look good. And adding more arbitrary regulations to an already arbitrary standard makes it look – at least to the general populace – like they’re doing something productive. Read Mike Florio's piece where owners are quoted as saying all they care about is Goodell looking out of this case instead of saying getting it right.
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1. Yes, the NFL does not have to prove that Brady ordered the balls to be deflated. He was found guilty of probably knowing they were deflated. It doesn't require a high level of proof to reach that kind of conclusion. The text messages, phone records, and common sense are probably enough.

2. I'm not a scientist, so I can't say whether or not the science in the Wells Report are valid, but according to the Wells Report, they found that the decrease in ball pressure was too much to only be caused by the weather conditions/wear and tear, etc. This suggests that air was let out of the balls, which then points to the equipment guy taking the balls, which then points to Brady's probable knowledge. If the NFLPA can prove that the balls probably weren't deflated at all, then Brady should be fine. If the Wells Report findings that the Ideal Gas Law doesn't account for all of the air that was let out of the balls stand up, then Brady is probably in trouble.

3. This case has literally nothing to do with the Cowboys and Broncos collusion. If a sports league actually cared about collusion, basically every team in every sport would be punished. I'm sure that if the NFLPA wants to pursue a case regarding collusion, they can do so. Everybody knows that all teams in all sports do it.

4. I don't really care what the NFL's intentions are. If you want to believe the Patriots are victims, you're free to do so.
 
Melancer46 said:
1. Yes, the NFL does not have to prove that Brady ordered the balls to be deflated. He was found guilty of probably knowing they were deflated. It doesn't require a high level of proof to reach that kind of conclusion. The text messages, phone records, and common sense are probably enough.

2. I'm not a scientist, so I can't say whether or not the science in the Wells Report are valid, but according to the Wells Report, they found that the decrease in ball pressure was too much to only be caused by the weather conditions/wear and tear, etc. This suggests that air was let out of the balls, which then points to the equipment guy taking the balls, which then points to Brady's probable knowledge. If the NFLPA can prove that the balls probably weren't deflated at all, then Brady should be fine. If the Wells Report findings that the Ideal Gas Law doesn't account for all of the air that was let out of the balls stand up, then Brady is probably in trouble.

3. This case has literally nothing to do with the Cowboys and Broncos collusion. If a sports league actually cared about collusion, basically every team in every sport would be punished. I'm sure that if the NFLPA wants to pursue a case regarding collusion, they can do so. Everybody knows that all teams in all sports do it.

4. I don't really care what the NFL's intentions are. If you want to believe the Patriots are victims, you're free to do so.
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http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/07/27/tom-brady-nflpa-deflategate-suspension-federal-court
III. Brady was judged under policies that fell outside of the CBA.

Brady would also object to the standard of proof used to judge his alleged misconduct. Much has been made of Wells concluding that it was “more probable than not” that Brady had “general awareness” of a ball-deflation scheme. Neither the “more probable than not” nor “general awareness” standards are mentioned in the CBA. In defense of Wells, the “more probable than not” standard is mentioned in a different league document—the Policy on Integrity of the Game and Enforcement of Competitive Rules.

The Policy on Integrity, however, was not collectively bargained. The Policy on Integrity is also not mentioned by name in the 301-page CBA and rules about football preparation appear intended for teams rather than players. Brady could thus insist that he has been evaluated by an impermissible standard.

Brady would further highlight how the CBA omits any language compelling him to turn over his cell phone, text messages or emails. Brady would stress that an obligation to share personal belongings with the NFL should be treated as an invasive request and one that requires written consent by the NFLPA.

So they are punishing him outside what the CBA allows and can't prove it.
 
Alsacs said:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/07/27/tom-brady-nflpa-deflategate-suspension-federal-court
III. Brady was judged under policies that fell outside of the CBA.

Brady would also object to the standard of proof used to judge his alleged misconduct. Much has been made of Wells concluding that it was “more probable than not” that Brady had “general awareness” of a ball-deflation scheme. Neither the “more probable than not” nor “general awareness” standards are mentioned in the CBA. In defense of Wells, the “more probable than not” standard is mentioned in a different league document—the Policy on Integrity of the Game and Enforcement of Competitive Rules.

The Policy on Integrity, however, was not collectively bargained. The Policy on Integrity is also not mentioned by name in the 301-page CBA and rules about football preparation appear intended for teams rather than players. Brady could thus insist that he has been evaluated by an impermissible standard.

Brady would further highlight how the CBA omits any language compelling him to turn over his cell phone, text messages or emails. Brady would stress that an obligation to share personal belongings with the NFL should be treated as an invasive request and one that requires written consent by the NFLPA.

So they are punishing him outside what the CBA allows and can't prove it.
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Then I guess we will just have to sit back and see how this all unfolds. If I had to guess, I would say that the suspension will be reduced, but I think Brady will have to take it to court if he hopes to have the entire thing washed out.
 
Alsacs said:
You can hate the Patriots all you want. This case is about making Roger look good and he is scalping Tom Brady without any credible evidence. How the F hasn't he released his decision? The answer he wants Brady to crack and knows if it goes to court he loses.
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You're onto something...but what you're missing the is the 20 year sham of a league it had been to lift the values of all owners by increasing the values of tent-pole owners more.

You're pecking at it but you just don't want to see past the corner cause you're afraid of what's there.

It's just entertainment.
 
The suspension has officially been upheld, along with newly released evidence that Tom Brady had his cell phone destroyed (which Tom says is common practice whenever he finishes using a cell phone, but Goodell ain't buying it).
 
It's stupid but the guy broke the rules (cheated mildly), lied about it and tried to cover it up. There's a whole world of small rules out there that you and I don't care about, but are important in their small corner of the world, and are enforced because they've been deemed important.

To me, this is why lawyers exist...Brady settles down, comes clean, not even I care about it.

Instead, he's the one who created the fiasco afterward. Destroyed his phone? Please...only a Patriots tone deaf diehard doesn't see what happened here.

I'm surprised it was held at 4 but there's a lot behind the scenes that we've discussed before, particularly other franchises reaching fed up point...
 
Update: Despite his policy of destroying all cell phones, it sounds like he's only actually destroyed one; the one that could have had incriminating evidence. In the very least, he reportedly didn't destroy the previous phone.

Should be a fun explanation to hear.
 
Orangeman said:
It's stupid but the guy broke the rules (cheated mildly), lied about it and tried to cover it up. There's a whole world of small rules out there that you and I don't care about, but are important in their small corner of the world, and are enforced because they've been deemed important.

To me, this is why lawyers exist...Brady settles down, comes clean, not even I care about it.

Instead, he's the one who created the fiasco afterward. Destroyed his phone? Please...only a Patriots tone deaf diehard doesn't see what happened here.

I'm surprised it was held at 4 but there's a lot behind the scenes that we've discussed before, particularly other franchises reaching fed up point...
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I agree with all of this. It's just funny that it has consumed the airwaves and interwebs for as long as it has. I honestly think just taking the four-game ban and then putting it behind you would have been the much smarter move and would have freed all the talking heads up to debate other, similarly mundane and boring topics in the interim.
 
Frauds, the whole lot of 'em.

Well done, Mr. Goodell. I tip my cap to you, and offer you a salute.
 
F-Kraft as he was thinking the million dollar fine he paid was a bribe,boy did he get fooled.

I use to be totally neutral on the Patriots and that has changed big time thanks to brady,kraft.

Brady screwed Kraft here by destroying the cellphone.
 
Alsacs said:
You can hate the Patriots all you want. This case is about making Roger look good and he is scalping Tom Brady without any credible evidence. How the F hasn't he released his decision? The answer he wants Brady to crack and knows if it goes to court he loses.
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you are all too consumed in protecting this cheater,the two equipment managers lost their jobs for turning over their cellphones. Why did Kraft fire two innocent employees then?
 
retro44 said:
F-Kraft as he was thinking the million dollar fine he paid was a bribe,boy did he get fooled. I use to be totally neutral on the Patriots and that has changed big time thanks to brady,kraft. Brady screwed Kraft here by destroying the cellphone.
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I expected Kraft to vehemently defend Brady. It's his cash cow.
 
Does anybody know where in,the CBA that the NFL has the right to any information from a players cell phone?

Does anybody know what texts between Brady and the equipt. guys would have been on Brady's phone and not on the other guys? If they got the conversations off of guy A, Why do they need it,off of guy B.

Just asking.
 
Capt. Tuttle said:
Does anybody know where in,the CBA that the NFL has the right to any information from a players cell phone?

Does anybody know what texts between Brady and the equipt. guys would have been on Brady's phone and not on the other guys? If they got the conversations off of guy A, Why do they need it,off of guy B.

Just asking.
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1. The NFL doesn't technically have a right to a player's cell phone, but I don't think that means that his failure to comply with their requests must go unpunished.
2. I don't think they wanted the texts between Brady and the ball boys. Obviously they had already acquired those. Just because he would have been telling the ball boys to deflate the balls doesn't mean he couldn't have communicated with anyone else about it; especially in the aftermath when his phone records went nuts.
 
retro44 said:
you are all too consumed in protecting this cheater,the two equipment managers lost their jobs for turning over their cellphones. Why did Kraft fire two innocent employees then?
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Well done your opinion this matter was never open. I am sure you calling Hillary Clinton a criminal for refusing to hand over her private server.I don't call her a crminal but based on you want to call Brady a cheater it is the same thing. Give over your phone and email server.

Brave you also got the last part wrong. The NFL TOLD the Patriots to put those employees on leave. One of them is a permanent employee and the other is an in-season part time worker.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...spended-jastremski-mcnally-at-request-of-nfl/


What a joke you say Kraft fired them. Yeah this investigation has really proven Brady cheated when the NFL can't prove the ball were even manipulated and have instituted a new policy this year to determine the science. Yeah, I am consumed protecting a cheater the NFL can't even prove cheated.

This whole ordeal became national news started with someone from the league leaking to Chris Mortensen of ESPN the blatantly false news that 11 of the 12 Patriots footballs were a full two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum at halftime of the AFC title game. However, I bet you don't care the NFL gave a incorrect information and STILL HAS NOT CORRECTED IT PUBLICLY WHEN IT OWN "INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION" buried it in the report.
 
Alsacs said:
Well done your opinion this matter was never open. I am sure you calling Hillary Clinton a criminal for refusing to hand over her private server.I don't call her a crminal but based on you want to call Brady a cheater it is the same thing. Give over your phone and email server.

Brave you also got the last part wrong. The NFL TOLD the Patriots to put those employees on leave. One of them is a permanent employee and the other is an in-season part time worker.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...spended-jastremski-mcnally-at-request-of-nfl/


What a joke you say Kraft fired them. Yeah this investigation has really proven Brady cheated when the NFL can't prove the ball were even manipulated and have instituted a new policy this year to determine the science. Yeah, I am consumed protecting a cheater the NFL can't even prove cheated.

This whole ordeal became national news started with someone from the league leaking to Chris Mortensen of ESPN the blatantly false news that 11 of the 12 Patriots footballs were a full two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum at halftime of the AFC title game. However, I bet you don't care the NFL gave a incorrect information and STILL HAS NOT CORRECTED IT PUBLICLY WHEN IT OWN "INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION" buried it in the report.
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who cares......your a pats fan.

Kraft thought he was paying a $1,000,000 bribe......and then Brady destroys his cellphone. Guilty as charged.
 
retro44 said:
who cares...your a pats fan.

Kraft thought he was paying a bribe...and then Brady destroys his cellphone. Guilty as charged.
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Well done you proved my point. You had the facts wrong won't admit you had them wrong and go with the low blow shot to win. I hope you hammer Hillary for refusing to give her email server and wiping it. Guilty as charged.
 
Alsacs said:
Well done you proved my point. You had the facts wrong won't admit you had them wrong and go with the low blow shot to win. I hope you hammer Hillary for refusing to give her email server and wiping it. Guilty as charged.
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Seriously,what does Hillary have to do with a just cause action the NFL has a right to do.

WAWA.....Kraft I paid a million bucks for the suspension(WAWAWAWA) to go away...WAWAWAWAWAWAWAWA
stock-photo-a-funny-one-cartoon-crocodile-who-cries-crocodile-tears-3240830.jpg
 
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