The Fine Lot to Become Basketball Courts? | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

The Fine Lot to Become Basketball Courts?

Architecture is on the Hill. Slocum is entirely architecture. They are no longer in the warehouse at all I thought.As to the cost, I have heard conversation that the university will lease the land to private developers for some if not all the dorm facilities.
I'm not sure if they're still using the warehouse ... a friend of the family (his son) is a recent grad. He was in the warehouse. But that could have changed within the last couple years. (BTW .. he got a great job in NYC at an architecture firm).

All the same, for the cost of moving 2,700 beds ... this or some other alternative should be more seriously considered. The "connection" to the academic core seems less imperative for graduate/professional students. Law is a new building. So that's probably out. But architecture seems like a possible candidate.

So here's my (horrible, layman's) math: 2,700 beds = at least 5-6 buildings (assuming 500+ per building, 2 per room, 250 rooms). Residence halls of that size 3-4 stories might be several million dollars each (minimum). Then you have the cost of re-purposing the entire skytop complex ... demolition of existing residence buildings and conversion to "trails" ... a lesser expense but still not cheap.

A graduate school with its own dorms seems a better use. JMO. Feel free to flame me on my numbers.
 
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Haven Hall renovation? Thing looks like a giant toliet


Back in the 1960s it was dubbed "Tolley's Toilet" for the legendary SU Chancellor, William P. Tolley - the man who ran Syracuse University for nearly thirty years.
 
It looks quite a lot bigger than the TV deck is, and appears to have eaten cto's parking lot. Extremely controversial!


I hope they knock that awful Route 81 viaduct down!

And I hope Syracuse University develops that property.

The City of Syracuse needs that kind of economic engine.
 
It goes east of the city (481) because it needs to be rebuilt, it's redundant, and the relevant stakeholders in the area don't want an interstate in that part of the city anymore; the state and feds will pay to remove that portion, rebuild the stub portion from 690 to the North Syracuse interchange, and upgrade the current north and south 481 interchanges to accommodate 65-mph traffic.


Lets hope it happens!
 
I'm not sure if they're still using the warehouse ... a friend of the family (his son) is a recent grad. He was in the warehouse. But that could have changed within the last couple years. (BTW .. he got a great job in NYC at an architecture firm).

All the same, for the cost of moving 2,700 beds ... this or some other alternative should be more seriously considered. The "connection" to the academic core seems less imperative for graduate/professional students. Law is a new building. So that's probably out. But architecture seems like a possible candidate.

So here's my (horrible, layman's) math: 2,700 beds = at least 5-6 buildings (assuming 500+ per building, 2 per room, 250 rooms). Residence halls of that size 3-4 stories might be several million dollars each (minimum). Then you have the cost of re-purposing the entire skytop complex ... demolition of existing residence buildings and conversion to "trails" ... a lesser expense but still not cheap.

A graduate school with its own dorms seems a better use. JMO. Feel free to flame me on my numbers.

Not sure you're fitting 500 rooms in a 3-4 floor building without it having massive sprawl. Lawrinson is 20 stories tall and only houses around 550. Sadler is 8 stories and is pretty sprawled out and houses 470 students. Seems like the cost to relocate all students to main campus will be staggering.
 
I'm not sure if they're still using the warehouse ... a friend of the family (his son) is a recent grad. He was in the warehouse. But that could have changed within the last couple years. (BTW .. he got a great job in NYC at an architecture firm).

All the same, for the cost of moving 2,700 beds ... this or some other alternative should be more seriously considered. The "connection" to the academic core seems less imperative for graduate/professional students. Law is a new building. So that's probably out. But architecture seems like a possible candidate.

So here's my (horrible, layman's) math: 2,700 beds = at least 5-6 buildings (assuming 500+ per building, 2 per room, 250 rooms). Residence halls of that size 3-4 stories might be several million dollars each (minimum). Then you have the cost of re-purposing the entire skytop complex ... demolition of existing residence buildings and conversion to "trails" ... a lesser expense but still not cheap.

A graduate school with its own dorms seems a better use. JMO. Feel free to flame me on my numbers.
I wonder if SU has something planned for Soutth Campus? New school?
 
Back in the 1960s it was dubbed "Tolley's Toilet" for the legendary SU Chancellor, William P. Tolley - the man who ran Syracuse University for nearly thirty years.
It never occurred to me , it does look like a giant toilet holy cow
 
I'm not sure if they're still using the warehouse ... a friend of the family (his son) is a recent grad. He was in the warehouse. But that could have changed within the last couple years. (BTW .. he got a great job in NYC at an architecture firm).

All the same, for the cost of moving 2,700 beds ... this or some other alternative should be more seriously considered. The "connection" to the academic core seems less imperative for graduate/professional students. Law is a new building. So that's probably out. But architecture seems like a possible candidate.

So here's my (horrible, layman's) math: 2,700 beds = at least 5-6 buildings (assuming 500+ per building, 2 per room, 250 rooms). Residence halls of that size 3-4 stories might be several million dollars each (minimum). Then you have the cost of re-purposing the entire skytop complex ... demolition of existing residence buildings and conversion to "trails" ... a lesser expense but still not cheap.

A graduate school with its own dorms seems a better use. JMO. Feel free to flame me on my numbers.

They'll go taller with the buildings, but no complaint about the numbers beyond that.

The problem is that Skytop is pretty much obsolete for a few reasons. First, the buildings are cheap pre-fab crap (built, oddly enough, by Pyramid in the '70s). SU maintains them pretty well, but they're disposable structures nearing the end of their lives.

Second, they're un- (or at least under-) accessible in an era in which universal accessibility is a selling point (and it's weird that it took so long for the home of Burton Blatt and programs for disabled vets to put ideas into action). Not only do most of the units have stairs and no elevators, but they're located on a hill that's a bus ride away from campus.

Third, with the consensus that peak driving is behind us and a record-low number of teenagers getting licensed, it's thought to be unappealing to suggest to undergrads who want the on-campus apartment experience that they'll need a car at SU. That was normal 20 years ago, but it's thought that this will be considered a hardship in coming years and hurt SU's competitiveness with peers. Best to have everyone on campus in modern units.

Agree that this will be a big expense, but I wouldn't be surprised -- as NJCuse said -- if SU makes ground lease arrangements like Park Point and Colvin. Even so, it'll be interesting to see how this comes together. It's important to Kent, but it's a huge project and could easily outlast his tenure.

I wonder if SU has something planned for Soutth Campus? New school?

Haven't heard of anything beyond some minor athletics consolidation, maybe some high-end 'athletics' dorms (NCAA prohibits athletes-only housing, but they can throw a few other students in there and get away with it).

Not a huge deal, but it'd be neat if SU could bring its cross country course back to campus (especially if they continue to have success). Would be great for the school to host the ACC championships right at Skytop.

Sell land to developer to help pay for everything else they want to do

I don't think they will, but this would make the most sense (especially if consolidation happens and some school redistricting follows - developers could build a few hundred homes up there and chip in land for a new school that'd draw exclusively from middle and upper-middle class households in what's now Syracuse, DeWitt, and Onondaga).
 
They'll go taller with the buildings, but no complaint about the numbers beyond that.

The problem is that Skytop is pretty much obsolete for a few reasons. First, the buildings are cheap pre-fab crap (built, oddly enough, by Pyramid in the '70s). SU maintains them pretty well, but they're disposable structures nearing the end of their lives.

Second, they're un- (or at least under-) accessible in an era in which universal accessibility is a selling point (and it's weird that it took so long for the home of Burton Blatt and programs for disabled vets to put ideas into action). Not only do most of the units have stairs and no elevators, but they're located on a hill that's a bus ride away from campus.

Third, with the consensus that peak driving is behind us and a record-low number of teenagers getting licensed, it's thought to be unappealing to suggest to undergrads who want the on-campus apartment experience that they'll need a car at SU. That was normal 20 years ago, but it's thought that this will be considered a hardship in coming years and hurt SU's competitiveness with peers. Best to have everyone on campus in modern units.

Agree that this will be a big expense, but I wouldn't be surprised -- as NJCuse said -- if SU makes ground lease arrangements like Park Point and Colvin. Even so, it'll be interesting to see how this comes together. It's important to Kent, but it's a huge project and could easily outlast his tenure.



Haven't heard of anything beyond some minor athletics consolidation, maybe some high-end 'athletics' dorms (NCAA prohibits athletes-only housing, but they can throw a few other students in there and get away with it).

Not a huge deal, but it'd be neat if SU could bring its cross country course back to campus (especially if they continue to have success). Would be great for the school to host the ACC championships right at Skytop.



I don't think they will, but this would make the most sense (especially if consolidation happens and some school redistricting follows - developers could build a few hundred homes up there and chip in land for a new school that'd draw exclusively from middle and upper-middle class households in what's now Syracuse, DeWitt, and Onondaga).
So I have heard the conversation of making a majority of the existing south campus a student life/recreational development. That could (and if so it should) include a new cross country course. I totally agree with the comments about a walkable campus, but to me that's what makes the idea of building a substantial rec facility out there so odd. 1) you are doing Archbold over, and then would split the use/function by building a satellite facility. 2) You go through the effort of making a walking campus changing the campus culture (one with less need of Centro busses) and then expect kids to get on a bus to go for a walk or run?
IMO if you wanted to do something, it has to be different enough to be a draw. Replace Drumlins and start a golf team (men's and women's or just women's if that helps Title 9 issues). I am not clear on the university's ties to Drumlins, but just for comparison sake, Cornell has a Robert Trent Jones course. You could still have a cross country course there, and tie the clubhouse to the hockey rink. Not sure what to do about softball stadium, but that seems an easy problem in the grand scheme.
In reality, either that is where the hotel should go, maybe in conjunction with a golf course re-do, which then connects itself to a major tailgating facility for gamedays, or you commit that land to being an Science and Engineering R&D/incubator park. This is the kind of program a major research university needs, and it can be the catalyst for not only economic growth as incubator companies/projects spin off to bio-tech or product based companies, but also income in grants, and corporate buy outs of research and intelligence in development. Just recently Merck bought a Phase 2 study from Harvard's incubator (keep in mind this is one compound) for $20 million and they are keeping Harvard involved to see it through.
Harvard gets $20 million upfront from Merck in license for experimental leukemia drug compounds - Tech Transfer e-News - Tech Transfer Central
Merck Just Made a $20 Million Bet On Experimental Harvard Cancer Tech
Access from the south side (481 access ramp) helps create a semi-corporate environment that differentiates it from the pure academic side. You could say the same for a hotel, or for a medical college. I see all of those having a benefit of a "separate entrance".
 
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I can't imagine it's in the plans, and I don't know what may be under the sideline lower stands, but I'd love to see the university rip out the visitor's side lower stands and make them retractable so a baseball team could play inside the dome.

Even moreso, I'd love to see the university make Manley into a hockey arena.
 
I can't imagine it's in the plans, and I don't know what may be under the sideline lower stands, but I'd love to see the university rip out the visitor's side lower stands and make them retractable so a baseball team could play inside the dome.

Even moreso, I'd love to see the university make Manley into a hockey arena.
I enthusiastically endorse the Manley/hockey proposal.
 
I wonder if SU has something planned for Soutth Campus? New school?
The PDF quote by Legacy says that SU's converting Skytop into student recreational land ... "trails" or something like it is being proposed. See Ottomets and NJCuse97's posts above.
 
I enthusiastically endorse the Manley/hockey proposal.
It would cost so much to put a rink in there. Wouldnt be much more to build a new building. By the time they rip the floor out install compressors, cooling towers, 9miles of cooling tubes, dehumidifiers.... You may as well build a building that's meant for hockey. It would be cool but not practical
 
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This is from page 30 of the pdf SU just provided.

Some thoughts:

The lack of space for parking really stands out. I think OttoMets has said the dorms will have big parking garages, to address parking for the students. But what about fans? I can only think the plan is to use all the space being freed up on South Campus for parking and rely on buses to get people to and from there and North Campus. I have to admit I am bummed about this. Could get back to my house in Liverpool after a 7 PM basketball game by 9:20 pm.

View attachment 66992


If they are going to expect everyone to park on South Campus and take a shuttle, they need to talk to the City to widen Comstock into 2 lanes in each direction, and they need to have a better place to drop off passengers. The existing location seems a bit limited to move so many people.
 
If they are going to expect everyone to park on South Campus and take a shuttle, they need to talk to the City to widen Comstock into 2 lanes in each direction, and they need to have a better place to drop off passengers. The existing location seems a bit limited to move so many people.
No question major changes will be required if most or all of the parking west of the Dome is eliminated for people attending games there.

It is a shame access to the main campus from the south campus is so limited. You really can only get there from Comstock.
 
It will be interesting to see if new parking options happen near MLK school after I-81 turns into a boulevard
 
It will be interesting to see if new parking options happen near MLK school after I-81 turns into a boulevard

Might have to look at Fayette Street for tailgate venues. :confused:
 

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