The ship be sinkin'...

[DoctorBombay]

To say that some of our fans are spoiled, reactionary, entitled, and immature, wouldn't do them proper justice.:crazy:

 

[dasher]

of course you do.

 

[pearl31]

To say that some of our fans are spoiled, reactionary, entitled, and immature, wouldn't do them proper justice.:crazy:

If you can't see that this (losing Battle) is a big blow, and that things on the hill look a bit dicey right now... I wouldn't go as far as saying the ship is sinking, or that JB has to go - but this one, all things considered, is concerning

 

[Cheriehoop]

When JB missed out on Julius Hodge, that was the day the program started to slowly crumble.

Actually we never got started missing out on Sam Perkins and it's just :rolling:been a 35 year slide to oblivion. :bat:

 

[MSOrange]

If you can't see that this (losing Battle) is a big blow, and that things on the hill look a bit dicey right now... I wouldn't go as far as saying the ship is sinking, or that JB has to go - but this one, all things considered, is concerning

I totally agree. I think it's very fair to be concerned at this point. And people have to realize that it's not the usual crowd that goes crazy with any bad news. Both you and RF have expressed concern and you two are among the fairest, generally positive posters on here.

 

[cuseguy]

I totally agree. I think it's very fair to be concerned at this point. And people have to realize that it's not the usual crowd that goes crazy with any bad news. Both you and RF have expressed concern and you two are among the fairest, generally positive posters on here.

We're on the verge of a new era.

The sanctions coupled with JB's imminent retirement, some recruits are probably looking at us a little differently.

It's not as easy of a sell as It once was.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Threads like this is what I hate about message boards.

Cry me a river. Don't click on these threads then. To me it is a concerning verdict given how shaky and thin we are at the guard/ballhandling areas.

 

[CuseHulk]

We're on the verge of a new era.

The sanctions coupled with JB's imminent retirement, some recruits are probably looking at us a little differently.

It's not as easy of a sell as It once was.

Which sanctions.There was no further post season ban, or do you mean the loss of scholarships (which very well could be lessened on appeal) oh by the way how often do we play more than 10 hell use the full 13.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Threads like this is what I hate about message boards.

Oh the irony

 

[orangehomer]

Good first post - post more often.

you realize this is a Yukon fan reveling in our misery and using the opportunity to tell us how great Yukon is right?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Has anyone confirmed yet that he's not going to take his official visit with us?

 

[007]

you realize this is a Yukon fan reveling in our misery and using the opportunity to tell us how great Yukon is right?

I really didn't read it that way at all. UCONN fan or not, every point he made was reasonable and well thought out, IMO.

 

[cuseguy]

Has anyone confirmed yet that he's not going to take his official visit with us?

Confirmed.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Whether one is concerned or not depends on expectations. If ones expectations are that this is just the ups and down of normal recruiting then these two misses (3 if you count the fact that we are not getting Murray) are not a game changer. My expectations are that this should have been the height of JB's prestige. Our recruiting should have been better than it had ever been. We should be having multiple burger boys and this should be the apex of our image. Therefore, even if we get Simmons , my concern will not be ameliorated. This could well be a bell-weather game changer in comparison to what should have been. We lost our opportunity for a breakout.

Given our sanctions and the cloud over our program we cannot afford another poor season. A couple more dismal finishes and our all important and hard fought brand would be damaged. It could take a long time to recover.

Don't dismiss me as a short-timer or fair weather fan. I go back to Manley. Even during our darkest days when the local rag ran a four part series on our recruiting struggles I maintained that JB's image would grow and our recruiting would make significant improvements.

 

[moqui]

Which sanctions.There was no further post season ban, or do you mean the loss of scholarships (which very well could be lessened on appeal) oh by the way how often do we play more than 10 hell use the full 13.

you can have a good season here and there with a limited roster, but programs are built on depth and development. losing ~25% of your schollies for an extended period is a critical hit.

it also prevents adding an APR hero here and there, and with the additional scrutiny that probation brings to the academic services portion of the program, that could very well lead to further problems down the road.

the NCAA wanted to hurt JB's program, and it did. At this point, I anticipate that any reduction of penalties will take the form of dropping the final year of reductions and final 2 years of probation if and only if JB actually steps down after 3 seasons.

Now, if events change then so, too, will my opinion. But so far, my initial fears of what the sanctions would deliver are being borne out.

 

[CusefanATL]

This is not a knee-jerk reaction. This is the tipping point.

Sanctions, recruiting losses, transfers who weren't good enough, players leaving early.

I've seen enough over the last two years.

you must have forgotten the 2006-2009 years which led to the 2010-2014 years

 

[CusefanATL]

Whether one is concerned or not depends on expectations. If ones expectations are that this is just the ups and down of normal recruiting then these two misses (3 if you count the fact that we are not getting Murray) are not a game changer. My expectations are that this should have been the height of JB's prestige. Our recruiting should have been better than it had ever been. We should be having multiple burger boys and this should be the apex of our image. Therefore, even if we get Simmons , my concern will not be ameliorated. This could well be a bell-weather game changer in comparison to what should have been. We lost our opportunity for a breakout.

Given our sanctions and the cloud over our program we cannot afford another poor season. A couple more dismal finishes and our all important and hard fought brand would be damaged. It could take a long time to recover.

Don't dismiss me as a short-timer or fair weather fan. I go back to Manley. Even during our darkest days when the local rag ran a four part series on our recruiting struggles I maintained that JB's image would grow and our recruiting would make significant improvements.

look at maryland. they have been nothing for 10+ years. all of a sudden they are top 3.

 

[CusefanATL]

you can have a good season here and there with a limited roster, but programs are built on depth and development. losing ~25% of your schollies for an extended period is a critical hit.

it also prevents adding an APR hero here and there, and with the additional scrutiny that probation brings to the academic services portion of the program, that could very well lead to further problems down the road.

the NCAA wanted to hurt JB's program, and it did. At this point, I anticipate that any reduction of penalties will take the form of dropping the final year of reductions and final 2 years of probation if and only if JB actually steps down after 3 seasons.

Now, if events change then so, too, will my opinion. But so far, my initial fears of what the sanctions would deliver are being borne out.

we are getting at least 1/2 of those scholarships back. probably more.

 

[jfuchs91]

you realize this is a Yukon fan reveling in our misery and using the opportunity to tell us how great Yukon is right?

You're right that I'm a UConn fan. Where you're wrong is assuming that this precludes me from making a valid observation. I witnessed first-hand a very similar situation unfold at UConn, and we had many posters with the same doom-and-gloom outlook that's beginning to permeate on this board. Those Chicken Littles were later proven to be off-base.

I didn't come here to gloat about UConn's successes; frankly, they speak for themselves. I've lurked here for awhile because Syracuse is a geographically close basketball power that is a former conference foe. Plus, I personally enjoy having intelligent basketball discussion with fans outside of my favorite teams' fanbases, as it provides an additional perspective.

The point of my post was that there are multiple ways to win in college basketball. Sure, the elite one-and-done talents tend to flock to schools like Kentucky and Duke, but there's more to winning basketball games than "talent" on paper. Slightly lower rated prospects who have honed their skills and understanding of the game over several seasons are often just as effective on the college level as one-and-done kids. Additionally, when a core of players has played together for multiple seasons, they develop a cohesion and understanding of their teammates' tendencies which can often be the difference between winning and losing in March. Essentially, recruiting losses happen to every school and it's foolish to overanalyze the decision of a teenager. There's little reason to fret about every lost recruit or act like the sky is falling. Syracuse still has a lot going for them despite the sanctions and Boeheim's advanced age.

Anyway, if you'd prefer that I refrain from posting in the future just because I root for a former rival, that is fine with me. I consider myself a basketball fan above all, so there are several other forums where I can post.

 

[orangefan13]

the last 2 years...


Offense has been down because people keep leaving early(and people like rak/gbinije 2 years ago, and sophmores roberson/johnson hadn't stepped up) and little things like, jeremy grant/mccullough/dajuan injuries, a freshmen point, no defensive guard uptop, no isolation pullup guard who can score uptop, cooneys ups and downs.


We as syracuse fans are hungry and quite frankly people are tired of our teams ending the seasons on rough notes and sweet 16's, even a final four run a few years back seemed overshadowed by a michigan loss right after we outscored indiana (favorite to win the championship's) backcout, 36-0. Thats what happens when you harden your heart and expect to win the big one, big wins get downplayed and overshadowed by a tough loss.

But remember the 96 title run team only had one nba player and played probably the best ncaa championship team ever with 8 nba stars down to the wire. This doesn't mean sure-ity is in the near future but it doesn't mean we are hopeless either.

As for JB I just want him to bring the fire, I worry in these next few years our defense could get to relaxed, (even more so with 4 more seconds off the shot clock). With the loss of patterson, I think we are in for our 3rd straight season without a good defensive pressure guard uptop. For a team that had rautins, dion, and mcw the four years before that unexceptable. With no defensive guards lined up this year, next year(with moyer), and most guards needing 1-2 years to grow, we could be up for 5-7 straight years without a lockdown pressure guard uptop. I don't want to see the last days of his legacy leave any one catagory missing.

 

[SoBeCuse]

the last 2 years...


Offense has been down because people keep leaving early(and people like rak/gbinije 2 years ago, and sophmores roberson/johnson hadn't stepped up) and little things like, jeremy grant/mccullough/dajuan injuries, a freshmen point, no defensive guard uptop, no isolation pullup guard who can score uptop, cooneys ups and downs.

As for JB my only quarrel I want to see some aggressive guards uptop, I think we are in for a 3rd year in a row without one now that patterson left.

We as syracuse fans are hungry and quite frankly people are tired of our teams ending the seasons on rough notes and sweet 16's, even a final four run a few years back seemed overshadowed by a michigan loss right after we outscored indiana (favorite to win the championship's) backcout, 36-0.


But remember the 96 title run team only had one nba player and played probably the best ncaa championship team ever with 8 nba stars down to the wire. This doesn't mean sure-ity is in the near future but it doesn't mean we are hopeless either.

Good post. Some truth to your first paragraph for sure. But, let's not forget that the slide after 25-0 (some narrow escape W's against bad teams scoring in the 50s thrown in there) happened with Ennis and Grant and Fair. We couldn't score anymore with those guys. I don't what it is. The system, no real stud player, underdeveloped skillsets in general? I suppose that team really could've used the senior version of Rak or close to it. I don't know. I also agree with you in terms of needing aggressive offensive guards up top.

 

[AlaskaSU]

look at maryland. they have been nothing for 10+ years. all of a sudden they are top 3.

The Terps are like a slot machine. Lots of turnover but they finally got a combination that clicked. We got to where we are by grinding out winning season after winning season. Our reputation was built on consistency. Those of us that are concerned are in fear that our consistency might end. Malachi is not a quick fix, not the second coming of Poetry in Moten. He has long-term potential but at this point he is a project.

 

[orange79]

You're right that I'm a UConn fan. Where you're wrong is assuming that this precludes me from making a valid observation. I witnessed first-hand a very similar situation unfold at UConn, and we had many posters with the same doom-and-gloom outlook that's beginning to permeate on this board. Those Chicken Littles were later proven to be off-base.

I didn't come here to gloat about UConn's successes; frankly, they speak for themselves. I've lurked here for awhile because Syracuse is a geographically close basketball power that is a former conference foe. Plus, I personally enjoy having intelligent basketball discussion with fans outside of my favorite teams' fanbases, as it provides an additional perspective.

The point of my post was that there are multiple ways to win in college basketball. Sure, the elite one-and-done talents tend to flock to schools like Kentucky and Duke, but there's more to winning basketball games than "talent" on paper. Slightly lower rated prospects who have honed their skills and understanding of the game over several seasons are often just as effective on the college level as one-and-done kids. Additionally, when a core of players has played together for multiple seasons, they develop a cohesion and understanding of their teammates' tendencies which can often be the difference between winning and losing in March. Essentially, recruiting losses happen to every school and it's foolish to overanalyze the decision of a teenager. There's little reason to fret about every lost recruit or act like the sky is falling. Syracuse still has a lot going for them despite the sanctions and Boeheim's advanced age.

Anyway, if you'd prefer that I refrain from posting in the future just because I root for a former rival, that is fine with me. I consider myself a basketball fan above all, so there are several other forums where I can post.

Thoughtful post.

Please feel free to post, and hang around. Mind your trolling.

 

[TheCusian]

Whether one is concerned or not depends on expectations. If ones expectations are that this is just the ups and down of normal recruiting then these two misses (3 if you count the fact that we are not getting Murray) are not a game changer. My expectations are that this should have been the height of JB's prestige. Our recruiting should have been better than it had ever been. We should be having multiple burger boys and this should be the apex of our image. Therefore, even if we get Simmons , my concern will not be ameliorated. This could well be a bell-weather game changer in comparison to what should have been. We lost our opportunity for a breakout. Given our sanctions and the cloud over our program we cannot afford another poor season. A couple more dismal finishes and our all important and hard fought brand would be damaged. It could take a long time to recover. Don't dismiss me as a short-timer or fair weather fan. I go back to Manley. Even during our darkest days when the local rag ran a four part series on our recruiting struggles I maintained that JB's image would grow and our recruiting would make significant improvements.

30k fans, great coaching, conference affiliation, location for recruiting, history, and the Carmelo center will keep us near the top. We'll be fine.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

The great news is we have a HOF coach who has laid out his plans.
The good news is we have our HC in waiting on board.

Question I would like reconciled from all the people blaming JB is, how come if Mike Hopkins was Battle's main recruiter and Hopkins is running the (Big Board) then how come it's Boeheims fault?



**if you don't believe the all of the recruiting decisions have been passed to Mike then, oh well.