Things I learned at USA Basketball: Notes on Mike Hopkins, Jim Boeheim, Orange Madness, more (PS)

[SoBeCuse]

"Triche was with the New York Knicks in Las Vegas. He played in just one game. And yet, he leaves Las Vegas as a winner."

Okay, you are right. He just said Triche was the "winner". My mistake. If he said Triche was the "big winner" do you think that would be over the line. I think just saying Triche was the "winner" was just as bad commentary. It seems to me it's almost bordering on sarcasm. Give me one Mike Waters quote where says anything positive about the Orange. You can't.

Dave. Come on. That's simply not true. Plenty of times he has praised when deserved being praised.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Took me two minutes to find Dave. An excerpt from Mike on the Baylor win in Maui. Case closed.


Syracuse went to its two outstanding forwards — Fair and Grant. Grant converted a 3-point play, Fair hit a baseline jumper and then Grant converted another 3-point play. Ennis finished up the 10-0 run with a breakaway layup.

The Orange's spurt boosted the lead to 66-52.

After starting the season with four home-court victories over lesser opponents, Syracuse came to the islands and took on three teams from power conferences. The Orange responded with three outstanding performances in wins over Minnesota, California and Baylor.

 

[orange79]

"Triche was with the New York Knicks in Las Vegas. He played in just one game. And yet, he leaves Las Vegas as a winner."

Okay, you are right. He just said Triche was the "winner". My mistake. If he said Triche was the "big winner" do you think that would be over the line. I think just saying Triche was the "winner" was just as bad commentary. It seems to me it's almost bordering on sarcasm. Give me one Mike Waters quote where says anything positive about the Orange. You can't.

Right. Mike Waters has never said anything positive about the Orange. Ever. Right.

You couldn't be more wrong on this one.

 

[realorange]

Dave, you just don't like Mike Waters. Let's let it go at that. For most of us he does a commendable job reporting Syracuse sports. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[Dave85]

Took me two minutes to find Dave. An excerpt from Mike on the Baylor win in Maui. Case closed.


Syracuse went to its two outstanding forwards — Fair and Grant. Grant converted a 3-point play, Fair hit a baseline jumper and then Grant converted another 3-point play. Ennis finished up the 10-0 run with a breakaway layup.

The Orange's spurt boosted the lead to 66-52.

After starting the season with four home-court victories over lesser opponents, Syracuse came to the islands and took on three teams from power conferences. The Orange responded with three outstanding performances in wins over Minnesota, California and Baylor.

Breadcrumbs.

 

[Dave85]

Dave, you just don't like Mike Waters. Let's let it go at that. For most of us he does a commendable job reporting Syracuse sports. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

I said I did not like what he writes. It has nothing to do with him personally.

 

[rrlbees]

I said I did not like what he writes. It has nothing to do with him personally.

You posted that article about the summer league and took it as negative. He said something positive about every player.

And as too your rant about what he said about Triche winning in Vegas, if you actually read the whole thing you would realize he is talking about Triche being a winner in Vegas because he had just signed a contract with a team in the highest Italian league for $135,000.

 

[MSOrange]

I'm about done with this debate but Mike also wrote this book and I don't remember him saying too many negative things in it

http://www.amazon.com/Syracuse-Basketball-Vault-College/dp/0794827888

 

[Dave85]

Right. Mike Waters has never said anything positive about the Orange. Ever. Right.

You couldn't be more wrong on this one.

I need to go back to 2003 and check out his articles but I can just imagine what he wrote. Take the Vegas article. That is just one typical example. He says Triche is the "winner". Three weeks ago the recruiting class was number one in the country. Then it drops to #2 and it becomes news worthy? JB said the 2015 recruiting class was the best one he's ever had. JB's comment are not mentioned in the article.

If I were a Georgetown graduate and I had to be sports writer covering the Orange. This what I would write:

"Syracuse went to its two outstanding forwards — Fair and Grant. Grant converted a 3-point play, Fair hit a baseline jumper and then Grant converted another 3-point play. Ennis finished up the 10-0 run with a breakaway layup."

"After starting the season with four home-court victories over lesser opponents, Syracuse came to the islands and took on three teams from power conferences. The Orange responded with three outstanding performances in wins over Minnesota, California and Baylor."

Nothing more than just what is required. It's pitiful.

I guess his admission he's not a fan of the Orange really bothers me. He said this during one of the 12 noon chat sessions. I'm not going to get past that comment. If he's not fan and truly wants to be objective then he should emphasize the highlights of the opposing team. Yes, it's objective but cruel to the target audience. I doubt I will change my opinion. He's not a fan and it shows up in his writing in my opinion.

 

[Dave85]

I'm about done with this debate but Mike also wrote this book and I don't remember him saying too many negative things in it

http://www.amazon.com/Syracuse-Basketball-Vault-College/dp/0794827888

Sorry to waste your time. It started with how great this article was:

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...week_notes_on_mike_hopkins_jim_boeheim_o.html

I love Donna's writing. I guess I was just contrasting it with the news worthiness of pronouncing the Orange have the #2 recruiting class in the country after it drops from number one.

 

[rrlbees]

Sorry to waste your time. It started with how great this article was: http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...week_notes_on_mike_hopkins_jim_boeheim_o.html I love Donna's writing. I guess I was just contrasting it with the news worthiness of pronouncing the Orange have the #2 recruiting class in the country after it drops from number one.

The article wasn't written because they had the #2 class. But when it was written, they were 2. You read things backwards.

 

[rrlbees]

I need to go back to 2003 and check out his articles but I can just imagine what he wrote. Take the Vegas article. That is just one typical example. He says Triche is the "winner". Three weeks ago the recruiting class was number one in the country. Then it drops to #2 and it becomes news worthy? JB said the 2015 recruiting class was the best one he's ever had. JB's comment are not mentioned in the article. If I were a Georgetown graduate and I had to be sports writer covering the Orange. This what I would write: "Syracuse went to its two outstanding forwards — Fair and Grant. Grant converted a 3-point play, Fair hit a baseline jumper and then Grant converted another 3-point play. Ennis finished up the 10-0 run with a breakaway layup." "After starting the season with four home-court victories over lesser opponents, Syracuse came to the islands and took on three teams from power conferences. The Orange responded with three outstanding performances in wins over Minnesota, California and Baylor." Nothing more than just what is required. It's pitiful. I guess his admission he's not a fan of the Orange really bothers me. He said this during one of the 12 noon chat sessions. I'm not going to get past that comment. If he's not fan and truly wants to be objective then he should emphasize the highlights of the opposing team. Yes, it's objective but cruel to the target audience. I doubt I will change my opinion. He's not a fan and it shows up in his writing in my opinion.

Triche was the winner. That's why he said it.

 

[Dave85]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...week_notes_on_mike_hopkins_jim_boeheim_o.html

This is a great article. Although Donna is fan she remains objective and doesn't sugar coat anything. But you can read her genuine interest in the team in her articles.

 

[rrlbees]

This is a great article. Although Donna is fan she remains objective and doesn't sugar coat anything. But you can read her genuine interest in the team in her articles.

Repeating your posts now? You still didn't respond to your mistakes about Triche and the other summer league guys. Or the book Mike wrote. Or the positive articles others posted. It has to be personal since your claim of negativity has been showed to be false.

 

[Dave85]

Repeating your posts now? You still didn't respond to your mistakes about Triche and the other summer league guys. Or the book Mike wrote. Or the positive articles others posted. It has to be personal since your claim of negativity has been showed to be false.

I did not make any mistakes. I did respond to everything. And opinions cannot be "false". Opinions can't be a "mistake". Just because your opinion is different than mine doesn't make it a "fact".

The book is a mystery to me. I don't have it so I can't tell you if it's positive, negative, or objective. Maybe he wrote it as a way of learning more about his subject matter. I don't know since I don't have it.

I did respond to the so called "positive" articles. If I were a Hoya, that's what I would have wrote. Just the bare minimum of praise nothing more. I just have a different opinion than the people this board. That doesn't make it "wrong".

I don't agree with a lot of what is posted here but I still respect other people's opinions.

 

[Charco]

"Triche was with the New York Knicks in Las Vegas. He played in just one game. And yet, he leaves Las Vegas as a winner."

Okay, you are right. He just said Triche was the "winner". My mistake. If he said Triche was the "big winner" do you think that would be over the line. I think just saying Triche was the "winner" was just as bad commentary. It seems to me it's almost bordering on sarcasm. Give me one Mike Waters quote where says anything positive about the Orange. You can't.

He didn't say he was "the" winner. He said he was "a" winner.

Here's the thing, if your best evidence to prove a point is wrong, then maybe your point is wrong.

 

[Dave85]

He didn't say he was "the" winner. He said he was "a" winner.

Here's the thing, if your best evidence to prove a point is wrong, then maybe your point is wrong.

My evidence is an opinion. Opinions can't be wrong. In the first part of article he talked about who won and who crapped out.

"There will not be any former Syracuse University players in tonight's game. There was a total of six former Orange men who were on teams out in Las Vegas, from 2014 first-round pick Tyler Ennis to Arinze Onuaku, who was undrafted back in 2010.

None of them exactly hit the jackpot."

None of them exactly hit the jackpot seems to me not to be exactly a positive comment. People can interpret the facts differently. In my opinion, I would choose different facts to write about.

 

[rrlbees]

I did not make any mistakes. I did respond to everything. And opinions cannot be "false". Opinions can't be a "mistake". Just because your opinion is different than mine doesn't make it a "fact". The book is a mystery to me. I don't have it so I can't tell you if it's positive, negative, or objective. Maybe he wrote it as a way of learning more about his subject matter. I don't know since I don't have it. I did respond to the so called "positive" articles. If I were a Hoya, that's what I would have wrote. Just the bare minimum of praise nothing more. I just have a different opinion than the people this board. That doesn't make it "wrong". I don't agree with a lot of what is posted here but I still respect other people's opinions.

No, you did not respond to anything and admit it was positive. You misread completely the Triche comment.

 

[rrlbees]

My evidence is an opinion. Opinions can't be wrong. In the first part of article he talked about who won and who crapped out. "There will not be any former Syracuse University players in tonight's game. There was a total of six former Orange men who were on teams out in Las Vegas, from 2014 first-round pick Tyler Ennis to Arinze Onuaku, who was undrafted back in 2010. None of them exactly hit the jackpot." None of them exactly hit the jackpot seems to me not to be exactly a positive comment. People can interpret the facts differently. In my opinion, I would choose different facts to write about.

You gave more than your opinion, you expressed what you felt were facts.

"He's factual. Hes objective. But his choices are always something negative versus something positive."

Your words. You're wrong.

 

[Charco]

My evidence is an opinion. Opinions can't be wrong. In the first part of article he talked about who won and who crapped out.

"There will not be any former Syracuse University players in tonight's game. There was a total of six former Orange men who were on teams out in Las Vegas, from 2014 first-round pick Tyler Ennis to Arinze Onuaku, who was undrafted back in 2010.

None of them exactly hit the jackpot."

None of them exactly hit the jackpot seems to me not to be exactly a positive comment. People can interpret the facts differently. In my opinion, I would choose different facts to write about.

First, opinions are not "evidence" of anything.

Second, he was trying to use a vegas theme in his writing. That's all. Relax.

Third, "There will not be any former Syracuse University players in tonight's game." is just a statement of fact.

Fourth, "None of them exactly hit the jackpot," is correct. Nobody played particularly well.

How would you have liked that article to have read?

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Look at this negatively objective reporting by Waters on the commitment earlier this month by Matthew Moyer:

"Moyer also noted Syracuse's excellent academic reputation. He wants to be a cardiologist and said that Boeheim talked to him about SU's alumni in that field.

"Obviously, the school has a lot of connections,'' Moyer said.

Moyer becomes the first player in the 2016 class to commit to Syracuse. Syracuse will be replacing current juniors Trevor Cooney, Michael Gbinije and Dajuan Coleman following the 2015-16 season in addition to any other player departures over the next two years.

Moyer is rated No. 88 in his class by 247Sports.com and No. 90 by , but he is seen as one of the fastest-rising players in the nation.

A 6-foot-7 wing, Moyer had just eight scholarship offers prior to the summer AAU circuit. That number tripled in a matter of months."



Actually, wait a second. Waters took statements that might have been negative (88th ranked, just 8 scholarship offers) and put them in a positive light. AND he mentioned our strong academics.

Sorry Dave, I think Mike Waters is consistently this good and speaks well of the University and its players. You'll need to bring a lot of evidence to this fight to make me believe otherwise.

 

[OttoMets]

You are entitled to your opinion but hear me out. I once posted that I thought an article he wrote had a negative tone. Mike quickly responded with "No, I wouldn't say that." Here's my second post to Mike's "No, I wouldn't say that.":

I would say that. In my opinion, I find many of your articles to have a negative tone. For example, "There will not be any former Syracuse University players in tonight's game." That's not positive.
And this one, "So who crapped out and who came away with some winnings" and yet you don't say who "crapped out" even though you imply it! And then the one guy who is not on any NBA team you claim is the winner? There's just something not right in saying Triche is the big winner in Vegas.
But I have to say you are objective. That is, objectively negative. I'm surprise you didn't list the turn over stat for each player. Oh, Triche just played in one game, got it. I can't argue with that fact!
I don't know exactly what it is but there's something not quite right with the tone of your articles.​

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...vegas_summer_league.html#lf_comment=190898106

It's just stuff like this, "He played in just one game" referring to Triche yet calling him the big winner in Vegas. That's just bad commentary. The Orange lost to Dayton, happy day. Check out his headline.

Mike is a UNC graduate. He's a Tar Heel and we're now in the ACC. You may not agree with my opinion but I just don't like his writing style. He never ever says anything positive about the team. He even said once he's not a fan of the Orange because he wants to remain objective. I think it's a mask. Maybe you know him and think he's a great guy. I just read what he writes. I like Donna's articles a thousand times better. Donna doesn't sugar coat anything in her articles yet she's always upbeat and positive.

Here's one of his articles, "Syracuse basketball's 2015 recruiting class ranked 2nd in the country". Emphasis on "2nd in the country". Three weeks earlier the 2015 recruiting class would have been first in the country. It's just what he chooses to write that bothers me. Get me one Mike Waters quote where he says something positive about the Orange. Not just some fact about the number of rebounds in a game. Give me just one positive opinion. Give me just one positive subjective judgment. "The future looks bright" is something you will never see him write. He claims he's being "objective". I don't buy it. JB called the 2015 recruiting class the best recruiting class in his career.

I get what you're saying, but I don't believe this has anything to do with UNC.

It is "bad commentary" to write "He played in just one game" but that misses the mark - commentary is not his job. A beat writer's job is to remain objective, but too often we see their eagerness to editorialize. That's an example of poor writing and even worse editing. I see that a lot. But I wouldn't say that Waters's Carolina allegiance is getting in his way.