Thoughts on Broyld/Avant switch

[anomander]

I commented on this in the practice thread, but thought this was too big of a move to get buried. Personally i'm really surprised just because those are our 2 best playmakers and would think they both need to be on the field. I know I was looking forward to having Estime on the field a majority of the time. Do we really think our offense will be that uptempo where they need to alternate? Is it because Broyld can't catch? I also thought Avant was a true slot receiver. He doesn't have that big physical build we typically look for wr's on the outside. Is he that good where they feel they need to get him on the field? Or is it again Broyld's inability to catch the ball?

Really interesting move that I would love to know the thought process behind.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yeah, weird to me too. Maybe Salt Badger's a little more hurt than we thought? Maybe Broyld isn't all that good? Maybe they want to open up time on the outside for guys like Avant and Ish?

I'm lost, little confused. Well, a lot confused. The walls are closing in.

 

[CanadianSU]

Please someone explain this, I think in all honesty it is a crappy coaching move from Shafer or McDonald if this is how it stays.

Estime deserves a bunch of play time, a bunch. So does Broyld. 0 sense In my opinion.

Is Ishmael better than Broyld

 

[Orange4]

Definatley weird to me because you usually want your bigger more physical receivers on the outside and your best route runners in the slot. Either way I trust the coaches and we'll see if it's the right move on the 29th!

 

[jekelish]

Wait, can we back up?

I haven't read the latest. What's the switch?

 

[CanadianSU]

Wait, can we back up?

I haven't read the latest. What's the switch?

Broyld moved back to HB.

Problem: this is Estime's position and we should have them on the field at the same time, for the majority of plays. Broyld and Estime would have to split time...

Avant who also seems more of a HB type, has been moved outside...

Puzzling.

 

[bnoro]

Maybe they'll be enough rotation that both guys will get enough snaps or we'll have 2 H backs on the field at the same time. This doesn't concern me at all.

 

[Libero2]

Are we even sure it's a permanent switch? Or were they trying it out today/planning to use Broyld there in specific situations, but not full time?

It could also be that Estime really is more hurt than they want to admit, and want to make sure they have a playmaker there if he can't go early in the year.

If it is a permanent switch, it certainly means something though. Too find out what it is though, we just have to wait another few days till the Nova game.

 

[TheCusian]

Are we even sure it's a permanent switch? Or were they trying it out today/planning to use Broyld there in specific situations, but not full time? It could also be that Estime really is more hurt than they want to admit, and want to make sure they have a playmaker there if he can't go early in the year. If it is a permanent switch, it certainly means something though. Too find out what it is though, we just have to wait another few days till the Nova game.

Coaches didn't really comment on it. Info mostly came from Ashton; but it did sound like they told him that.

 

[anglerman]

I think it's not a good idea to even guess because we're not coaches and aren't at practice so we have no clue to what's going on. It's best to wait until seeing a game before we make any judgements.

 

[Suball10]

This is confusing to me, but at the end of the day you have to trust the coaches. My only conclusion is what has already been stated:
A. Estime may be sidelined longer than thought
B. but if A is true, why move avant to the outside?
C. May play with 2 h backs more w the parris injury
D. Hunt hasn't progressed enough to get the ball to the outside and they need their
Playmakers closer to the line.

My only fear is the staff is trying to be to cute and out think it self. Only time will tell and I fired up to see it all play out.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Could be any number of things, but could the H back have less decision making on combination routes, and this lets him react instead of having to think at the snap?

 

[ImperialOrange]

With Estime returning kicks he might not be in on the first down of a drive. I'm expecting Broyld to be used in multiple positions as a playmaker so we make sure to get him touches. I would also surmise, based on nothing more than size, that Broyld is a better blocker.

I also stated in the daily updates thread but if the staff feels confident enough to move Broyld from WR that bodes well for their confidence level in the ability of the rest of the WR group as well.

 

[stumpy78]

Isn't the HB more of running back/wide receiver position, utilizing reverses and screens? Avant may not be durable enough at his weight to take the punishment. It may mean we need a two deep and Ashton is going to fill in if Brisley is hurt or tired. I think Ashton still starts on the outside, but gets some time in the slot as well. Remember that linebackers regularly hit the slot guys on passes or runs. It may also mean that George has 4 quality guys outside without Ashton.

 

[upperdeck]

20 years ago no one ever worried about what spot guys played just that they were on the field. no fans are such experts they worry that a guy is the Y not the Z but why not the X.. You really think the same rcvrs are going to be on the field the whole drive no matter who we put out there? if you want depth then you need talented kids and you have to play them

 

[Rocco]

Nova, you've been punked.

 

[Orangello]

Maybe they'll be enough rotation that both guys will get enough snaps or we'll have 2 H backs on the field at the same time. This doesn't concern me at all.

This, or maybe they want insurance if Estime gets banged up again. Not worried.

 

[TheCusian]

I think this move plus McDonalds comments yesterday could mean a much larger role for Ishmael. It certainly moves him one step closer to the field.

Is Ishmael a better outside receiver than Ashton right now? Could he be in the next few weeks?

 

[CIL]

I don't think this is a huge deal. I was never sold on Broyld as a true WR. He's not the best route runner and has below average hands. He is an absolutely outstanding athlete and is dangerous after the ball in his hands.

In this offense, the H is the primary receiver for bubble screens, jet sweeps, and used as a pitch man in the zone/read option. All threee of these fit Ashton's strengths, much like Estime. My guess is there is room for both on the field with Parris being out. We might see more 4 WR sets than usual.

Finally, I think this also speaks volumes about the young talent we have at WR. Avant, Ishmael, Enoicy, and Custis are really talented kids. Prior to his knee getting scoped, coaches raved about Enoicy. He's a better player than we even thought he was. Really bright kid and really good hands. All 4 players are probably better WR's than Broyld (not better athletes).

At the end of the day, this is a really good problem to have. We haven't had this kind of depth since the McNabb days. I still remember the Tim Lane Rice Moss days.

 

[sutomcat]

I commented on this in the practice thread, but thought this was too big of a move to get buried. Personally i'm really surprised just because those are our 2 best playmakers and would think they both need to be on the field. I know I was looking forward to having Estime on the field a majority of the time. Do we really think our offense will be that uptempo where they need to alternate? Is it because Broyld can't catch? I also thought Avant was a true slot receiver. He doesn't have that big physical build we typically look for wr's on the outside. Is he that good where they feel they need to get him on the field? Or is it again Broyld's inability to catch the ball?

Really interesting move that I would love to know the thought process behind.

It was an interesting move.

My speculation is that this was prompted by a number of things: the excellent early play by Steve Ishmael, Flemming and West, all on the outside, coupled with the injury to Estime, the series of injuries Avant has been dealing with and the further loss of depth at H back with the Cooper transfer and the move of Winfield to CB. Someone had to move to H back and Ashton is right; he is better suited to playing H back than on the outside.

Ashton will probably bounce between positions all season long, helping to address depth issues as needed. Heck, he might even take some snaps at the Y the way things are going. I think the constant moving hurts Ashton, whose strength has never been learning the playbook. Hopefully people get/stay healthy and the staff makes a decision on a position for Ashton and sticks to it. I am pretty sure he will be better if he can focus on learning the responsibilities of only one position.

 

[RICuse44]

This is confusing to me, but at the end of the day you have to trust the coaches. My only conclusion is what has already been stated:
A. Estime may be sidelined longer than thought
B. but if A is true, why move avant to the outside?
C. May play with 2 h backs more w the parris injury
D. Hunt hasn't progressed enough to get the ball to the outside and they need their
Playmakers closer to the line.

My only fear is the staff is trying to be to cute and out think it self. Only time will tell and I fired up to see it all play out.

I don't think it would be for blocking purposes unless they would be changing around the offense (i.e. Ashton as more of a TE while leaving Salt Badger as HB). The H back in this offense is not like a traditional Keith Byars H Back. Instead it is more of a playmaker role that really is a combo TB/WR. I really wish we would call it something else, like the Jet back. But this is your person doing the jet sweeps, screens, etc. More like a Tavon Austin position.

 

[RICuse44]

I don't think this is a huge deal. I was never sold on Broyld as a true WR. He's not the best route runner and has below average hands. He is an absolutely outstanding athlete and is dangerous after the ball in his hands.

In this offense, the H is the primary receiver for bubble screens, jet sweeps, and used as a pitch man in the zone/read option. All threee of these fit Ashton's strengths, much like Estime. My guess is there is room for both on the field with Parris being out. We might see more 4 WR sets than usual.

Finally, I think this also speaks volumes about the young talent we have at WR. Avant, Ishmael, Enoicy, and Custis are really talented kids. Prior to his knee getting scoped, coaches raved about Enoicy. He's a better player than we even thought he was. Really bright kid and really good hands. All 4 players are probably better WR's than Broyld (not better athletes).

At the end of the day, this is a really good problem to have. We haven't had this kind of depth since the McNabb days. I still remember the Tim Lane Rice Moss days.

Great minds... You must have gone to a really good school.

 

[memcorsu]

Tempo, Tempo, Tempo aka blitzkrieg

The offense is going to be pretty simple with players KNOWING where and when they are supposed to go allowing them to not think but react playing much faster. If thinking of last year, you can compare the year for GM and the adjustment he made from the beginning to the end of the year to that of Hackett in 2012. This year for GM would be equivalent to what we might have seen in Hackett's 2013.

From what I have seen and heard, THunt is doing really well hitting his intermediate and longer throws. I think this move is about having as many WR's on the field and really spreading the field out. If we can do this we have an amazing stable of very talented RB's that are going to gash people. This might also be one of the better OL's we have had at SU as a unit.

I see a big break out year for both THunt and Broyld. The move with Broyld is that he has progressed as a person and player and has a strong understanding of the playbook. He will be all over the field. The light bulb has come on and by all accounts he has been catching the ball just fine. I would suggest that we will see whole unit substitutions this year at both the RB and WR position. There will be times when both AB and BE are on the field at the same time. I also think we will see multiple trips with Avant running crossing patterns with the ability to find open area and picking up chunks of yardage 10 to 15 yards a gain ala Lemon.

We might also see it at the DB. It speaks well that we have finally found enough talented depth that there is very little drop off when it comes to the 2's. Williams has pretty much secured the nickel back position allowing Wayne Morgan to work solely at the CB (he has been the nickelback the last couple of years).

This has been one of our biggest issues for forever and has really cost as at the end of the season for the past few years. There is not a position other than QB that the 2 could not make an argument for getting some run. We have the ability to keep fresh bodies in the game and limit the amount of snaps most players take with little to no drop off once the next person is in.

The overall theme this year is if we keep it close in the first two quarters we are going to win them in the next 2. If we can stay disciplined and avoid penalties, the only two games I am concerned about are FSU and Clempson. Expect the Loud House to be at or near sell out when FSU comes to town. I do expect to win vs. ND and UL.

PS
Don't be surprised if this years LB corp is one of our best ever.Jason Cabidna is going to regret flipping and JT will be better so our win.

PPs
Take a look at the GPAs most of the kids have we are now recruiting. We are going after very intelligent student athletes. Something to be said knowing how to think and do it well and fast.

 

[CousCuse]

" All war is deception" , Sun Tzu.

 

[texascpa]

Who's to say this doesn't put our best players on the field at the same time? Just because Broyld and Estime started last year doesn't mean they're the best this year. Isn't that what we want? Recruit above current talent? Maybe that's happening.