Time to start facing some hard truths

[PeteCalvin]

Plenty of times we didn't get our #1 target.

Kenny Anderson
Donyell Marshall
Jamal Mashburn
Stephon Marbury
Julius Hodge
Winfred Walton (yeah, he counts)

...and none of those guys won a title either.

Guys we did get:

Louie
Bouie
Bruin
Rautins
Alexis
Pearl
DC
Sherm
Thompson
Dave Johnson
Conrad
Wallace
Edelin
A kid named Carmelo
A kid named Gerry
Eric Devendorf
Paul Harris
Jonny Flynn
Donte Greene
A guy named Fab (who was a major target of ours)
Tyler Ennis
Jerami Grant
MCW
Dion Waiters

The four new kids we have coming in!


...but, yeah...we suck because Tyus Battle really loved Michigan and Thomas Bryant didn't really want to be around mom.

I remember a lightly recruited kid named Lawrence Moten, who many thought was a better football player than baller. He only went on to become the leading scorer in real BE history.

So what if Tyus liked Michigan better. He'll figure out that the BIG sucks soon enough.

Seriously, though. He thinks he'll play more there. More power to him. I like Beilein. Better than Bryant going to play for Crean. That is going to be a shitshow. IU won't do a thing under that guy.

I want kids playing here who WANT to be here.

 

[Alsacs]

Kenny Anderson
Donyell Marshall
Jamal Mashburn
Stephon Marbury
Julius Hodge
Winfred Walton (yeah, he counts)

...and none of those guys won a title either.

Guys we did get:

Louie
Bouie
Bruin
Rautins
Alexis
Pearl
DC
Sherm
Thompson
Dave Johnson
Conrad
Wallace
Edelin
A kid named Carmelo
A kid named Gerry
Eric Devendorf
Paul Harris
Jonny Flynn
Donte Greene
A guy named Fab (who was a major target of ours)
Tyler Ennis
Jerami Grant
MCW
Dion Waiters

The four new kids we have coming in!


...but, yeah...we suck because Tyus Battle really loved Michigan and Thomas Bryant didn't really want to be around mom.

I remember a lightly recruited kid named Lawrence Moten, who many thought was a better football player than baller. He only went on to become the leading scorer in real BE history.

So what if Tyus liked Michigan better. He'll figure out that the BIG sucks soon enough.

Seriously, though. He thinks he'll play more there. More power to him. I like Beilein. Better than Bryant going to play for Crean. That is going to be a shitshow. IU won't do a thing under that guy.

I want kids playing here who WANT to be here.

Great post. I mean we are acting like spoiled brats. We didn't lose this kid to St. Bonaventure he went to Michigan. We will go onto plan B, plan C etc.

 

[DoctorBombay]

This thread...

 

[anomander]

He probably roomed with a guy who hates the program.

I'm half kidding. It's happened in Football a couple of times.

Honestly after missing on Bryant, and now Battle, one of my thoughts was about the current roster. No idea if it's a reason, but we have a bunch of really quiet, reserved kids on the team. Now that Rak is gone, who was probably the biggest personality, we are left with a lot of really quiet, soft spoken guys. It's well known that Trob doesn't really speak, Silent G is named silent G for more then 1 reason, and then Cooney and Joseph aren't really known to be terribly out going. It's not like Football where you have some of the current guys on the roster trying to recruit for the program. Even Bryant mentioned something about it.

Then again i'm sure the sanctions didn't have anything to do with it. Whatever way you slice it this was a monumental whiff, especially considering we have been all-in for so long.

 

[iommi]

Great post. I mean we are acting like spoiled brats. We didn't lose this kid to St. Bonaventure he went to Michigan. We will go onto plan B, plan C etc.

I agree in general. The concern is we were way too transparent to possible plans B, C and D that they were plans B, C and D. Recruits don't like being made to feel like backup plans. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't have a favorite but how about being a little more subtle about it. And there are a lot of folks here who were very vocal that Murray should've been at least plan 1-A. Is Murray even in our plans at all?

 

[cuseguy]

I agree in general. The concern is we were way too transparent to possible plans B, C and D that they were plans B, C and D. Recruits don't like being made to feel like backup plans. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't have a favorite but how about being a little more subtle about it. And there are a lot of folks here who were very vocal that Murray should've been at least plan 1-A. Is Murray even in our plans at all?

At this point, if it's not Simmons, any other point we bring in for 2016 is likely a backup to Joseph and Howard.

I just don't see any of the other guards we're recruiting playing over either of them at that stage of their college careers.

 

[longislandcuse]

Kenny Anderson
Donyell Marshall
Jamal Mashburn
Stephon Marbury
Julius Hodge
Winfred Walton (yeah, he counts)

...and none of those guys won a title either.

Guys we did get:

Louie
Bouie
Bruin
Rautins
Alexis
Pearl
DC
Sherm
Thompson
Dave Johnson
Conrad
Wallace
Edelin
A kid named Carmelo
A kid named Gerry
Eric Devendorf
Paul Harris
Jonny Flynn
Donte Greene
A guy named Fab (who was a major target of ours)
Tyler Ennis
Jerami Grant
MCW
Dion Waiters

The four new kids we have coming in!


...but, yeah...we suck because Tyus Battle really loved Michigan and Thomas Bryant didn't really want to be around mom.

I remember a lightly recruited kid named Lawrence Moten, who many thought was a better football player than baller. He only went on to become the leading scorer in real BE history.

So what if Tyus liked Michigan better. He'll figure out that the BIG sucks soon enough.

Seriously, though. He thinks he'll play more there. More power to him. I like Beilein. Better than Bryant going to play for Crean. That is going to be a shitshow. IU won't do a thing under that guy.

I want kids playing here who WANT to be here.

Is this a prelude to the football argument of our 2-3 stars are better than everyone else's 2-3 stars?

 

[RF2044]

Great post. I mean we are acting like spoiled brats. We didn't lose this kid to St. Bonaventure he went to Michigan. We will go onto plan B, plan C etc.

Alsacs, I think you are a great poster in general. But I think this particular post ^^^^ shows a tremendous amount of naivety. Being blindly optimistic is one thing, but what you're suggesting is akin to burying one's head in the sand.

Would love to land Murray, or Kobi Simmons. Given that we just lost the two recruits who could and should have been mortal locks for our program [all things considered], I'm not confident that we will land either replacement.

This was a devastating loss on the recruiting trail, no matter how some would prefer to pretend otherwise. Time to quit rationalizing and recognize that we are now in damage control mode. Please note that this doesn't mean that we can't rebound / bounce back with a top notch replacement, but until we do...

Nothing is certain. But as things stand right now, this was a devastating blow.

 

[NineOneSeven]

 

[cuseguy]

Well, the football team seems to have no trouble beating out Michigan for top recruits lately.

 

[Alsacs]

Alsacs, I think you are a great poster in general. But I think this particular post ^^^^ shows a tremendous amount of naivety. Being blindly optimistic is one thing, but what you're suggesting is akin to burying one's head in the sand.

Would love to land Murray, or Kobi Simmons. Given that we just lost the two recruits who could and should have been mortal locks for our program [all things considered], I'm not confident that we will land either replacement.

This was a devastating loss on the recruiting trail, no matter how some would prefer to pretend otherwise. Time to quit rationalizing and recognize that we are now in damage control mode. Please note that this doesn't mean that we can't rebound / bounce back with a top notch replacement, but until we do...

Nothing is certain. But as things stand right now, this was a devastating blow.

We can agree to disagree which is fine. Maybe instead of Battle we get a kid who wants to transfer and will have a scholly for them. My point is that Battle isn't a huge loss. I am sure he is a good/great player, but he isn't a Carmelo or transcendent talent. At best he would have been a bigger Jonny Flynn like player. Until we start seeing all the elite guys off the market I won't freak out.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Kenny Anderson.

Probably the worst possible example to lead with.

 

[rosconey]

3 years - donovan out of the nba and orange-hopkins at nova

 

[orangedave]

Honestly after missing on Bryant, and now Battle, one of my thoughts was about the current roster. No idea if it's a reason, but we have a bunch of really quiet, reserved kids on the team. Now that Rak is gone, who was probably the biggest personality, we are left with a lot of really quiet, soft spoken guys. It's well known that Trob doesn't really speak, Silent G is named silent G for more then 1 reason, and then Cooney and Joseph aren't really known to be terribly out going. It's not like Football where you have some of the current guys on the roster trying to recruit for the program. Even Bryant mentioned something about it.

Then again i'm sure the sanctions didn't have anything to do with it. Whatever way you slice it this was a monumental whiff, especially considering we have been all-in for so long.

And when did Rak become this big personality - his senior year. Would you have predicted that based on prior performance? Would you have predicted Andy Rautins to become a leader? Or Scoop Jardine? Kids change, progress, mature. Who knows who might emerge from the current roster.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Probably the worst possible example to lead with.

Yeah, but we survived. That was back when Cremins paid players. It's also a good example of the "oh my dream is to play with so-and-so in college" crap. Anderson and Billy Owens were close. I guess he liked green more than playing with his boy in Orange.

 

[TheCusian]

Alsacs, I think you are a great poster in general. But I think this particular post ^^^^ shows a tremendous amount of naivety. Being blindly optimistic is one thing, but what you're suggesting is akin to burying one's head in the sand. Would love to land Murray, or Kobi Simmons. Given that we just lost the two recruits who could and should have been mortal locks for our program [all things considered], I'm not confident that we will land either replacement. This was a devastating loss on the recruiting trail, no matter how some would prefer to pretend otherwise. Time to quit rationalizing and recognize that we are now in damage control mode. Please note that this doesn't mean that we can't rebound / bounce back with a top notch replacement, but until we do... Nothing is certain. But as things stand right now, this was a devastating blow.

Agreed. But some are hyperventilating and shouting the end is nigh. It's a blow - but it happens to everyone. We will have to wait and see. Coach is still great, 30k fans, Carmelo center, history, etc. I'd bet it's just a bump in the road.

 

[RF2044]

We can agree to disagree which is fine. Maybe instead of Battle we get a kid who wants to transfer and will have a scholly for them. My point is that Battle isn't a huge loss. I am sure he is a good/great player, but he isn't a Carmelo or transcendent talent. At best he would have been a bigger Jonny Flynn like player. Until we start seeing all the elite guys off the market I won't freak out.

I'm fine agreeing to disagree, and I'm not going around ringing a bell tolling the end of the world. But I disagree 100% with your final four sentences--that sounds like incredible rationalization. Battle absolutely, 100% was a transcendent talent. This was a huge loss.

It doesn't mean the end of the world, or that we need to cancel the program. But it was a devastating blow. Don't fall into the trap of pretending otherwise.

 

[RF2044]

Agreed. But some are hyperventilating and shouting the end is nigh. It's a blow - but it happens to everyone. We will have to wait and see. Coach is still great, 30k fans, Carmelo center, history, etc. I'd bet it's just a bump in the road.

See above.

 

[iommi]

I'm fine agreeing to disagree, and I'm not going around ringing a bell tolling the end of the world. But I disagree 100% with your final three sentences--that sounds like incredible rationalization. Battle absolutely, 100% was a transcendent talent. This was a huge loss.

It doesn't mean the end of the world, or that we need to cancel the program. But it was a devastating blow. Don't fall into the trap of pretending otherwise.

Battle is an incredible talent. He'd have been ranked in the top 5 nationally if not for missing the lion's share of last season (not to say that rankings mean everything). That brings me to my one caveat regarding Battle: if the foot issue becomes a chronic thing, that could derail his career. I hope he stays healthy.

 

[anomander]

And when did Rak become this big personality - his senior year. Would you have predicted that based on prior performance? Would you have predicted Andy Rautins to become a leader? Or Scoop Jardine? Kids change, progress, mature. Who knows who might emerge from the current roster.

missed the point completely.

 

[orangefan13]

Well, the football team seems to have no trouble beating out Michigan for top recruits lately.

Yeah but they stole GROB from us.

 

[realorange]

I'm fine agreeing to disagree, and I'm not going around ringing a bell tolling the end of the world. But I disagree 100% with your final four sentences--that sounds like incredible rationalization. Battle absolutely, 100% was a transcendent talent. This was a huge loss.

It doesn't mean the end of the world, or that we need to cancel the program. But it was a devastating blow. Don't fall into the trap of pretending otherwise.

RF, I generally agree with most of your posts. But to say this was a "devastating blow" is a little over the top. Hurt, yes. Devastating, no.

 

[RF2044]

RF, I generally agree with most of your posts. But to say this was a "devastating blow" is a little over the top. Hurt, yes. Devastating, no.

When you go all in on a prospect, and spend several years recruiting him, losing the recruiting battle [pun intended] while not even garnering the courtesy of an official visit is devastating. Now, the damage might be mitigated if we can bounce back and land another exceptional player. But right now, as things stand today, without that other consolation prize in the fold--we're more than merely "hurt."

 

[jordoo]

Its not the loss of one recruit in general that people are bemoaning and making a big deal out of. Its the fact that for over a year the same people have been saying we better get Battle because we are basically passing on Murray and any other top guard prospect in 2016 since we have been exclusively all-in on Battle. Its the fact that things are starting to line up one after the other in a bad way to make many worried about the SU brand as far as recruiting goes at least in the short term. Its the fact that after the short term JB and his long time stability will be gone. (I'm a big fan of Hop but lets be honest after JB is a new era)
The staff could land a big time guard still for 16. We could get some ships back and add another key piece as well. We could have an unexpectedly good season this year followed by a great squad the following season. COULD but things are headed the other way as of now and its concerning.

 

[CuseHulk]

Its not the loss of one recruit in general that people are bemoaning and making a big deal out of. Its the fact that for over a year the same people have been saying we better get Battle because we are basically passing on Murray and any other top guard prospect in 2016 since we have been exclusively all-in on Battle. Its the fact that things are starting to line up one after the other in a bad way to make many worried about the SU brand as far as recruiting goes at least in the short term. Its the fact that after the short term JB and his long time stability will be gone. (I'm a big fan of Hop but lets be honest after JB is a new era)
The staff could land a big time guard still for 16. We could get some ships back and add another key piece as well. We could have an unexpectedly good season this year followed by a great squad the following season. COULD but things are headed the other way as of now and its concerning.

We could be unexpectedly good next season ?

No i expect we will be good next season period. With everything this past season we were not far from being a tournament team especially had we had the chance to play in the conference tournament.

Kaleb will improve, G could be first team all ACC, Roberson is emerging, Cooney will be Cooney, and I expect to get impact out of the incoming freshman class.