We Are Going To Lose More Prime Parking Spaces

[OttoMets]

Any chance Pioneer Homes will also be eliminated or relocated as part of the 81 redesign? That has to be some of the most underutilized real estate in the world, right? I could see the ed-meds paying above assessment to the state (seeing as they subsidize the housing) if that's what gets them to budge.

Nah, and it'd be politicially infeasible even if there were demand. But while there's some demand in the neighborhood, there's not enough to look there for developable space. Pioneer Homes is a pretty big development, is reasonably dense without being unmanageable, and it's not off-the-charts crime-wise (like some of the other projects the state and city have torn down).

Also, in a small place like Syracuse, a couple blocks make a big difference. The development hot spot is going to be north of Jackson Street, right between the Hill and downtown. Even a couple blocks to the south and west, land won't have too much value for eds and meds uses.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The development hot spot is going to be north of Jackson Street, right between the Hill and downtown.

I believe north of Jackson St is Pioneer Homes, just looking at the map.

 

[shandeezy7]

Regarding parking spaces, the proposed building would have way more than the required minimum. About 400 spots in total, so a net gain of over 250 spaces.

It's an unfortunate choice the city has to make: this is a pretty decent urban design (better than anything SU or a private developer has built in the neighborhood for at least two decades), though the big above-ground garage isn't appropriate, and adding both density and commercial space is a good thing; on the other hand, a 200' building on that hilltop will ruin a lot of great views, both of the grand entrance up University and from surrounding drumlins toward downtown and the lake.

Down the hill would be a better place for a building of this scale, but that's not what's on the table now. Developers are lining up, though, to build this sort of project on Almond once I-81 is removed.

I'm not sure how many views would be obstructed by this building. The frat houses on Walnut don't have much of a view already, and the only other buildings up on the hill above there are dorms and other student housing, which I believe are far enough away and high enough up to really not be affected much by this building.

As for the views of the grand entrance up university, I'm not sure how it would have any effect on that at all.

 

[OttoMets]

I believe north of Jackson St is Pioneer Homes, just looking at the map.

Oops, meant Monroe. Which is also south of a portion of Pioneer, but you get the picture - the real valuable real estate will be in the gap between the two nodes of development.

 

[OttoMets]

I'm not sure how many views would be obstructed by this building. The frat houses on Walnut don't have much of a view already, and the only other buildings up on the hill above there are dorms and other student housing, which I believe are far enough away and high enough up to really not be affected much by this building.

As for the views of the grand entrance up university, I'm not sure how it would have any effect on that at all.

I'm no artist, but this would affect a lot of views. Most uphill areas to the southeast (from Adams down to Clarendon) that currently have a view of downtown and the lake will lose part of it. I could get better shots from private property, but here's a public view: Google Maps Use Whitman as a frame of reference - this building will have similar massing but be twice as tall.

As for view toward the hill, a lot of properties on Madison, Harrison, lower University, and nearby blocks have views of various buildings on the row, especially the Crouse bell tower. A number of those will be lost, too.

I'm not personally opposed, but this'll be a negative change for a lot of people.

 

[Ottoble]

Agree. A building that size in that area is inappropriate.

I hope it is not approved.

I don't know management building kitty corner is 9 or so tall Sheraton and haven hall are about 12 and further up the hill not to mention the size of the hospital complex. It shouldn't be too out of scale. In terms of parking I do think the city should probably put a structured parking requirement on a building that size placed on a lot that also eliminates existing parking in that neighborhood. 3 story parking garage built in or 1 story basement parking and they pay for SU to expand the UAG across the street which I believe was designed as expandable up several more floors.

My feeling is the city is unlikely to disapprove a private development this size given their current tax conditions. This would be a big assessment bump for the tax rolls over a surface lot and it's not owned by a tax exempt organization unlike a big chunk of property in the city. (universities, hospitals Churches, Charities).

 

[Cheriehoop]

This would be a big assessment bump for the tax rolls over a surface lot and it's not owned by a tax exempt organization unlike a big chunk of property in the city. (universities, hospitals Churches, Charities).

I think I read that the government - city, county, state and federal, owns the most property in Syracuse.Agree with your point but I've heard that the city has put many expensive road blocks to many university plans so maybe they will be more private company friendly.

 

[Madbiker]

I am happy to hear it might not be an abomination. Will keep an open mind and hope for the best.

Not a fan of Ernie Davis Hall though I kind of appreciate its quirkiness. Really not a new fan of the Law School building.

But the worst of all is the Campus West building with the Starbucks in it that was built across from the Fine Lot on Raynor. I think it holds housing for grad students. It was bad enough that it cut off the view of the Carrier Dome from Route 81 as you drive by it. But it appears to have been designed to drive any happiness or optimism you might still have deep in your soul. It is a soul crusher building. Definitely designed by an expatriate of East Germany.

The architect should be imprisoned for life for crimes against humanity.

I won't even comment on that thing they built where Midtown Plaza used to be...

Looks like a building I saw in Bulgaria -- but without the orange panels.

 

[PeteCalvin]

I am happy to hear it might not be an abomination. Will keep an open mind and hope for the best.

Not a fan of Ernie Davis Hall though I kind of appreciate its quirkiness. Really not a new fan of the Law School building.

But the worst of all is the Campus West building with the Starbucks in it that was built across from the Fine Lot on Raynor. I think it holds housing for grad students. It was bad enough that it cut off the view of the Carrier Dome from Route 81 as you drive by it. But it appears to have been designed to drive any happiness or optimism you might still have deep in your soul. It is a soul crusher building. Definitely designed by an expatriate of East Germany.

The architect should be imprisoned for life for crimes against humanity.

I won't even comment on that thing they built where Midtown Plaza used to be...

Totally agree. I hated this building since before they completed it for the exact reasons you mention above. The exterior design is terrible as it is, but it's so different from everything else around it, I think it actually makes the visual worse.

I miss having that view of the Dome from 81. That was something I always looked forward to as a kid.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Yup that building is a joke too. Sick of this building trend using those aluminum panels or whatever the hell they are. Ugly as sin.

There are actually several fantastic buildings with aluminum panels at the core of their design. This one happens to be a dud. I think it's a combination of the design and the color scheme that makes it so unappealing to the eye. Change that orange to red and it could be downtown Pyongyang.

 

[sutomcat]

I don't know management building kitty corner is 9 or so tall Sheraton and haven hall are about 12 and further up the hill not to mention the size of the hospital complex. It shouldn't be too out of scale. In terms of parking I do think the city should probably put a structured parking requirement on a building that size placed on a lot that also eliminates existing parking in that neighborhood. 3 story parking garage built in or 1 story basement parking and they pay for SU to expand the UAG across the street which I believe was designed as expandable up several more floors. My feeling is the city is unlikely to disapprove a private development this size given their current tax conditions. This would be a big assessment bump for the tax rolls over a surface lot and it's not owned by a tax exempt organization unlike a big chunk of property in the city. (universities, hospitals Churches, Charities).

Haven is at the top of the hill, six or seven blocks away. It doesn't block views for anyone except patrons of Thorndon Park. I am looking at a picture of it and only count 8 floors.

The Sherston is not kitty koyner to this site, it is two blocks away. It doers have 9'floors. 17 floors in that location is imho a big deal. It is a major departure from the other buildings in the immediate neighborhood and would forever change the character of that area. I would be much more amenable to the plan if the building was less than 10 floors high.

 

[Ottoble]

Haven is at the top of the hill, six or seven blocks away. It doesn't block views for anyone except patrons of Thorndon Park. I am looking at a picture of it and only count 8 floors.

The Sherston is not kitty koyner to this site, it is two blocks away. It doers have 9'floors. 17 floors in that location is imho a big deal. It is a major departure from the other buildings in the immediate neighborhood and would forever change the character of that area. I would be much more amenable to the plan if the building was less than 10 floors high.

I was gut feeling the heights from memory of being in them taking the hill height into account. Haven is only 2 blocks away and I think has 3-4 floors built into the hill. Management is kittycorner to the site as I noted sheraton is 1 block away.

I see your point even if it was 10-12 or so it would still be more to scale. We'll see what happens Syr permitting is tough to predict.

 

[KellySyracuse]

for comparison sake, AXA Tower is 19 stories and it's at the bottom of the hill

 

[FrancoPizza]

I miss having that view of the Dome from 81. That was something I always looked forward to as a kid.

I'm pretty sure the higher roofline will make the dome visible again -at least part of it anyway- until cars have to drive past at street level on the Miner-Mannion Blvd.

 

[CaliCuse]

Again, just because it's nice on the inside doesn't mean it's not an abomination on the outside.

I've yet to see a decent rendering of the "new Dome"

 

[Chip]

I've yet to see a decent rendering of the "new Dome"

Have you considered drawing one up and sending it to them?

 

[FAL]

Have you considered drawing one up and sending it to them?

This one encompasses Syracuse and the surrounding 'burbs but offers fantastic views of Onondaga Lake. No loss of FB or BB seasons either. Just slightly more expensive than the projected $200 million.

 

[PeteCalvin]

View attachment 64854
This one encompasses Syracuse and the surrounding 'burbs but offers fantastic views of Onondaga Lake. No loss of FB or BB seasons either. Just slightly more expensive than the projected $200 million.

I have it on good authority that was the original Destiny Death Star design that was nixed in favor of the three giant empty parking lots.

 

[orangefog]

This one encompasses Syracuse and the surrounding 'burbs but offers fantastic views of Onondaga Lake. No loss of FB or BB seasons either. Just slightly more expensive than the projected $200 million.

OMG, I love it. I dig it's post modern in not apocalyptic sensibility. It weeps for the past, but boldly marches toward the future. I cried then suddenly jumped from my chair in laughter at the site of this concept. I give it a 6 out of 10 beanbag chairs.