What a whiner Lebron is

[longislandcuse]

I was at the game. I didn't witness greatness. The dude complains way too much for me to admire anything about him. Literally, after every play, he's crying about something. During every timeout, he's lobbying the refs. Enough already! There's a reason people dislike him and it's not because they hate greatness. After seeing him in person last night, I will find it hard to ever admire him.

Evidently all his crying and lobbying works since he's allowed to scream at a ref, no tech, but Millsap doing the same, Tee'd up. The Hawks played Game 1 like the entire Washington series, great 1st quarter, ok second, AWFUL 3rd and garbage most of the 4th, turning it on at the end...but that won't work against Cleveland, especially when you can expect, at some point during the game, for the refs to make their mark...Last night the mark was made, not ironically in the 3rd quarter when Cleveland got some breathing room, by a Millsap T and a random hardcore emphasis on ticky tack moving screens that wiped out 2-3 Atlanta 3 pointers.

That supporting cast is pretty bad, huh, how does Lebron do it with bums like JR Smith. JR Smith, the same punk ***** who was partying every night and complete garbage in the playoffs for the Knicks.

 

[br801]

Wilt Chamberlain has just two . . . and had to leave the warriors to get the first & the sixers to get the second
Dr. J has just one . . . and had to leave the Nets to get it.
Oscar Robertson has one . . . had to leave the Royals to get it

Had Roy Boe been able to pay Dr. J and keep the Nets together upon their entry into the NBA, he might have won that title with the Nets. Damn shame we'll never know, as those Dr. J-led Nets teams were fun to watch and very good.

 

[dasher]

It's just annoying that we are watching the greatest basketball player of all time and people focus on everything else.

Greatest player of all time? A physical specimen no doubt. A great player, no doubt. But greatest ever?

 

[jordoo]

Greatest player of all time? A physical specimen no doubt. A great player, no doubt. But greatest ever?

He's not obviously but I'm not sure there is even enough evidence to make a strong argument that he is.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Everything else matters. When you start talking about a topic as big as "greatest ever", everything is magnified, and scrutinized that much more. A lot of the time when people start talking about their favorite greats and reasons why, you hear a lot of "because he was tough as nails", "fearless", etc. He's great no doubt, but he'll have a ceiling imo because of what I personally view as the opposite of tough and fearless.

A lot of people that make their point about him talk about how there's never been a player of his size to do what he does. While that's true, you can't have it both ways, so because of that I think he should be punking the hell out of everyone physically with that same big size and stature. He's not that guy. Not when you're laying on the floor for a whole 45 seconds holding a crooked headband, when that's all that got hit.

 

[jordoo]

Everything else matters. When you start talking about a topic as big as "greatest ever", everything is magnified, and scrutinized that much more. A lot of the time when people start talking about their favorite greats and reasons why, you hear a lot of "because he was tough as nails", "fearless", etc. He's great no doubt, but he'll have a ceiling imo because of what I personally view as the opposite of tough and fearless.

A lot of people that make their point about him talk about how there's never been a player of his size to do what he does. While that's true, you can't have it both ways, so because of that I think he should be punking the hell out of everyone physically with that same big size and stature. He's not that guy. Not when you're laying on the floor for a whole 45 seconds holding a crooked headband, when that's all that got hit.

Remember all the flopping that Bron, Wade and Bosh did? They were like the 3 anigos of over reacting when they played together. They could have all made a career in pro wrestling.

 

[skurey]

Instead they went to 4 straight finals and won 2 titles.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Remember all the flopping that Bron, Wade and Bosh did? They were like the 3 imagoes of over reacting when they played together. They could have all made a career in pro wrestling.

Remember? I can't get that out of my head, and he does nothing to begin to erase those images for me.

 

[longislandcuse]

Remember all the flopping that Bron, Wade and Bosh did? They were like the 3 imagoes of over reacting when they played together. They could have all made a career in pro wrestling.

Shump seems to be learning from the best. He had a doozy of a flop last night.

 

[longislandcuse]

Since this is a Syracuse board, let me say this... If Lebron got the contact Melo gets and the officiating Melo gets...he'd have thrown an all out temper tantrum of epic proportions on the court by now.

Something y'all didn't see not being at the game. He doesn't just whine on camera. Literally, every commercial break, Lebron had the ear of a ref. It's crazy.

 

[jordoo]

Instead they went to 4 straight finals and won 2 titles.

No doubt very impressive but to pretend that their antics did not turn off a certain number of fans or denying the flopping, faking, whining and over reacting does not help you make your point. When debating you would do better to admit the obvious shortcomings of your side of the argument upfront. This makes you appear much more reasonable giving any further argument you make more credibility. It also limits it as firepower for your opponents argument. Where as completely refusing to acknowledge it at all makes it very easy for others to then dismiss your arguments all together since you cannot reasonably affirm what is so obvious to everyone on both sides of the issue.

 

[RF2044]

It's just annoying that we are watching the greatest basketball player of all time and people focus on everything else.

What's even more annoying is having Lebron fans whine about others correctly pointing out what an over the top whiner he is. For those of us who don't wear whine... oh, excuse me--WINE and gold colored glasses and syncophantically pretend that he can do no wrong, it detracts from his otherwise stellar play.

 

[dasher]

Instead they went to 4 straight finals and won 2 titles.

They were a missed rebound away from winning only 1. For all the hoopla, 2 is a disappointment.

 

[longislandcuse]

That's my biggest issue with Lebron fans. We admit he's great but he also whines A LOT. They can be mutually exclusive. Just because we don't respect his constant whining doesn't mean you need to defend him like he's your family member.

 

[moqui]

They were a missed rebound away from winning only 1. For all the hoopla, 2 is a disappointment.

it's one less (for now) than Larry Bird, who has gotten a whole helluva lot more hoopla, IMO.

hey, if you don't like LeBron that's fine. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else. But using the number of titles won to arbitrarily downgrade him is not the strongest argument. Titles are won by teams, not by individuals no matter how good they are.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If you think Lebron is whining now, wait until Draymond Green guards him the next series.

 

[RF2044]

it's one less (for now) than Larry Bird, who has gotten a whole helluva lot more hoopla, IMO.

hey, if you don't like LeBron that's fine. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else. But using the number of titles won to arbitrarily downgrade him is not the strongest argument. Titles are won by teams, not by individuals no matter how good they are.

Bird gets a heckuva lot more hoopla because there is universal recognition that during his era, there were two fairly equally matched dominant teams that combined to go to 10 consecutive NBA finals, winning 8 of them. Amazingly, they only squared off head to head in the finals three times [seems like it would have been a lot more]. But there is no question that those two teams owned the 1980s.

Plop either of those two teams down in a timeframe where there was no equivalent rival, and you'd probably have a Bulls-esque run of consecutive championships.

 

[moqui]

The Lakers went to the Finals 10 times in 12 years . . . but the Celtics only made 5 in that time span. Three times they held the #1 seed in the East and failed to make the Finals.

let's throw out Bird's final season when he played in only 45 games. In 12 years, he made 5 finals, winning in 3 of them, but failed to make the finals 3 times when his team held the #1 seed.

Lebron James is now in his 12th season. He has also made 5 finals, winning 2 of them, and failed to make the finals 2 times when his team held the #1 seed. With a win on the road over the top seed, he is on the verge of going to his 6th final in 12 year .

there is very little daylight between the team accomplishments of James & Bird . . . and yet we are told by many that Bird is a great champion and James is a disappointment. If anything, given the hype he continues to get and the hall of fame teammates he was blessed with, it is Bird who underperformed. But I have a pretty good idea why the opposite case is so frequently made.

 

[rrlbees]

James does it to himself. And being great or some jealousy isn't why he's so disliked. I'm sure there are people who have disliked other great players but I don't remember this much dislike for Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc.

 

[Cusefan0307]

James does it to himself. And being great or some jealousy isn't why he's so disliked. I'm sure there are people who have disliked other great players but I don't remember this much dislike for Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc.

His PR with the original "decision" permanently blew his popularity with a lot of average basketball fans. Lebron is a whiner, but his former sidekick Dwayne Wade was worse. He's going to go to the NBA finals most likely with house money. If they lose, it'll be blamed on losing Love to injury and having to play one of the NBA's top 5 best single season teams of all time.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The Lakers went to the Finals 10 times in 12 years . . . but the Celtics only made 5 in that time span. Three times they held the #1 seed in the East and failed to make the Finals.

let's throw out Bird's final season when he played in only 45 games. In 12 years, he made 5 finals, winning in 3 of them, but failed to make the finals 3 times when his team held the #1 seed.

Lebron James is now in his 12th season. He has also made 5 finals, winning 2 of them, and failed to make the finals 2 times when his team held the #1 seed. With a win on the road over the top seed, he is on the verge of going to his 6th final in 12 year .

there is very little daylight between the team accomplishments of James & Bird . . . and yet we are told by many that Bird is a great champion and James is a disappointment. If anything, given the hype he continues to get and the hall of fame teammates he was blessed with, it is Bird who underperformed. But I have a pretty good idea why the opposite case is so frequently made.

Imagine if you will Larry Bird with the physical gifts of Lebron James. Now imagine how many more championships Larry would have had. That's why a lot of people don't like Lebron I'm guessing.

 

[RF2044]

The Lakers went to the Finals 10 times in 12 years . . . but the Celtics only made 5 in that time span. Three times they held the #1 seed in the East and failed to make the Finals.

let's throw out Bird's final season when he played in only 45 games. In 12 years, he made 5 finals, winning in 3 of them, but failed to make the finals 3 times when his team held the #1 seed.

Lebron James is now in his 12th season. He has also made 5 finals, winning 2 of them, and failed to make the finals 2 times when his team held the #1 seed. With a win on the road over the top seed, he is on the verge of going to his 6th final in 12 year .

there is very little daylight between the team accomplishments of James & Bird . . . and yet we are told by many that Bird is a great champion and James is a disappointment. If anything, given the hype he continues to get and the hall of fame teammates he was blessed with, it is Bird who underperformed. But I have a pretty good idea why the opposite case is so frequently made.

ONLY five times? Guess we'd better take down Bird's bust in Springfield...

Bird is one of the all time greats--can't be disputed. Lebron is one of the all time greats--can't be disputed. Both are CLEARLY in the top 10 of best players ever. Where one stacks up relative to the other is subjective, and can certainly be debated, but I reject the notion that Bird is exemplified and Lebron is villainized for racial reasons--that's a false attribution. Bird is viewed as a great champion because his career is over and we can view his accomplishments through a historical lens [and probably also because his career was dramatically cut short due to recurring back injuries].

He's also viewed as a great champion because of how important the Celtics / Lakers rivalry was to the league's resurgence--which foundationally transformed the NBA from something that few people cared about to the global phenomenon it is today. Bird's rivalry with Magic and the Lakers is universally regarded as the thing that "saved" the league back in the early 80s -- that probably transcends any individual / statistical accomplishments. What storyline in Lebron's career to date compares with that [which is not to diminish his personal skill / greatness in any way]?

Championships alone isn't the only barometer of greatness, as you point out above. Lebron may very well go on to have better career accomplishments than Bird. Then again, maybe he won't; he's approaching the age where his body could begin to break down a la Bird, especially with so much extra playoff mileage on the tires. And generally speaking, the dropoff can be precipitous--look at Kobe. But I'm fairly certain that when Lebron finally hangs 'em up, he'll be viewed with comparable reverence whether he wins another championship or not. Since he's still playing, you're going to have people who actively root for him and people who actively root against him. That's the nature of sports.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

ONLY five times? Guess we'd better take down Bird's bust in Springfield...

Bird is one of the all time greats--can't be disputed. Lebron is one of the all time greats--can't be disputed. Both are CLEARLY in the top 10 of best players ever. Where one stacks up relative to the other is subjective, and can certainly be debated, but I reject the notion that Bird is exemplified and Lebron is villainized for racial reasons--that's a false attribution. Bird is viewed as a great champion because his career is over and we can view his accomplishments through a historical lens [and probably also because his career was dramatically cut short due to recurring back injuries].

He's also viewed as a great champion because of how important the Celtics / Lakers rivalry was to the league's resurgence--which foundationally transformed the NBA from something that few people cared about to the global phenomenon it is today. Bird's rivalry with Magic and the Lakers is universally regarded as the thing that "saved" the league back in the early 80s -- that probably transcends any individual / statistical accomplishments. What storyline in Lebron's career to date compares with that [which is not to diminish his personal skill / greatness in any way]?

Championships alone isn't the only barometer of greatness, as you point out above. Lebron may very well go on to have better career accomplishments than Bird. Then again, maybe he won't; he's approaching the age where his body could begin to break down a la Bird, especially with so much extra playoff mileage on the tires. And generally speaking, the dropoff can be precipitous--look at Kobe. But I'm fairly certain that when Lebron finally hangs 'em up, he'll be viewed with comparable reverence whether he wins another championship or not. Since he's still playing, you're going to have people who actively root for him and people who actively root against him. That's the nature of sports.

That's very eloquent, Ryan. Much better than when you're whining.

 

[SUskibum]

 

[moqui]

What storyline in Lebron's career to date compares with that [which is not to diminish his personal skill / greatness in any way]?

the hatred that he gets, and the vast numbers of people who watch and pay attention in order to root for his failure.

you are right, there are many root causes of this hatred: Jordan fans who want to guard his legacy against any challenger, people turned off by The Decision, etc. I don't want to get into the complicated discussion of race and why it impacts LeBron more than Jordan or Magic, but I am pretty sure that it does and that a lot of the other complaints about LeBron are often just convenient stalking horses.