What a whiner Lebron is

[44cuse]

Wilt Chamberlain has just two . . . and had to leave the warriors to get the first & the sixers to get the second Dr. J has just one . . . and had to leave the Nets to get it. Oscar Robertson has one . . . had to leave the Royals to get it

Stop with your facts. No place for that here. This is syracusefan.com don't you get it?

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

Okay. And by NBA standards of winners, they were low also.

How much of a loser is Chris Paul? You must really think lowly of him.

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

Instead they went to 4 straight finals and won 2 titles.

According to this board, and it's the same ridiculousness every year, the Cavs team he took to the final were world beaters with or without him.

44cuse

 

[RF2044]

the hatred that he gets, and the vast numbers of people who watch and pay attention in order to root for his failure.

you are right, there are many root causes of this hatred: Jordan fans who want to guard his legacy against any challenger, people turned off by The Decision, etc. I don't want to get into the complicated discussion of race and why it impacts LeBron more than Jordan or Magic, but I am pretty sure that it does and that a lot of the other complaints about LeBron are often just convenient stalking horses.

Oh, please. Poor Lebron--people root for him to fail. Plenty of people actively rooted against Jordan--the same way that people actively root against Tom Brady, the Yankees, etc. Whenever there is a top dog, you're going to have people who actively root against them succeeding. That sure isn't something unique to Lebron, despite what some would like to pretend.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Oh, please. Poor Lebron--people root for him to fail. Plenty of people actively rooted against Jordan--the same way that people actively root against Tom Brady, the Yankees, etc. Whenever there is a top dog, you're going to have people who actively root against them succeeding. That sure isn't something unique to Lebron, despite what some would like to pretend.

Great Post. I don't agree race has anything to do with why people dislike Lebron. Everyone liked him before the decision, and then he went on National television and pulled something out of Alex Rodriguez's PR book, and went and played with Dwayne Wade who isn't the most humble guy himself. That Heat team came off as arrogant, much in the same way people complain about the Patriots in the NFL.

I think he's helped his reputation a lot going back to Cleveland, but it is nowhere near what it was before he went to Miami. He's a great player that's had a ton of all time moments, but I think he's had to play better teams in the finals than MJ ever did. MJ always had the best team when he was in the finals, Lebron has had to play an all-time Dynasty 3 times in the finals, and this year he will in all likelyhood have to play a team with the fifth most regular season wins in NBA history.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Great Post. I don't agree race has anything to do with why people dislike Lebron. Everyone liked him before the decision, and then he went on National television and pulled something out of Alex Rodriguez's PR book, and went and played with Dwayne Wade who isn't the most humble guy himself. That Heat team came off as arrogant, much in the same way people complain about the Patriots in the NFL.

I think he's helped his reputation a lot going back to Cleveland, but it is nowhere near what it was before he went to Miami. He's a great player that's had a ton of all time moments, but I think he's had to play better teams in the finals than MJ ever did. MJ always had the best team when he was in the finals, Lebron has had to play an all-time Dynasty 3 times in the finals, and this year he will in all likelyhood have to play a team with the fifth most regular season wins in NBA history.

Not being sarcastic, but I like these debates. It's the main reason I go to happy hour, lol. But to compare the comp in the finals, I might give it to Lebron by a nose. But MJ had to escape the east, just to get to the finals. Lebron had a slide to get there for the most part. The reason the Jazz and others couldn't build a dynasty like the Spurs, is because of MJ. Compare the big 3 from the Spurs and Jazz.
Malone/Duncan
Stockton/Parker
Hornacek/Ginobili
The Bulls played that team in it's core twice. So that's splitting hairs. I really don't put much weight in how many wins GS had this year.

Although I agree completely with your first paragraph.

 

[44cuse]

Oh, please. Poor Lebron--people root for him to fail. Plenty of people actively rooted against Jordan--the same way that people actively root against Tom Brady, the Yankees, etc. Whenever there is a top dog, you're going to have people who actively root against them succeeding. That sure isn't something unique to Lebron, despite what some would like to pretend.

People always root against winners. Nothing new here and I agree, nothing to do with race. I could give two dumps who likes and doesn't like him. Personally it's about the idiocy of him not being great in these threads that is ridiculous (not saying you are saying that). People hate the Yankees, they hate the Lakers, they hate the Pats, and they hated Jordan. It is what it is.

44cuse

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not being sarcastic, but I like these debates. It's the main reason I go to happy hour, lol. But to compare the comp in the finals, I might give it to Lebron by a nose. But MJ had to escape the east, just to get to the finals. Lebron had a slide to get there for the most part. The reason the Jazz and others couldn't build a dynasty like the Spurs, is because of MJ. Compare the big 3 from the Spurs and Jazz.
Malone/Duncan
Stockton/Parker
Hornacek/Ginobili
The Bulls played that team in it's core twice. So that's splitting hairs. I really don't put much weight in how many wins GS had this year.

Although I agree completely with your first paragraph.

I agree 1-3 for Utah was great, but the rest of that team left a lot to be desired, and Malone was never the defensive prescence that Duncan in. San Antonio has always been great because of their depth, Utah had Greg Ostertag, Howard Eisley, Adam Keefe, and Greg Foster who were part of their regular rotation. There 5-8 nowhere near compared to what San Antonio could bring to the table when they put their bench in.

If Golden State wins this year you have to count them as one of the all time great teams. There plus/minus is better than any team since the 96 Bulls.

 

[Melancer46]

People always root against winners. Nothing new here and I agree, nothing to do with race. I could give two dumps who likes and doesn't like him. Personally it's about the idiocy of him not being great in these threads that is ridiculous (not saying you are saying that). People hate the Yankees, they hate the Lakers, they hate the Pats, and they hated Jordan. It is what it is.

44cuse

Serious question because I was too young to REALLY understand everything when MJ played, but was old enough that watching him in the NBA Finals is my earliest childhood memory... did people root against him the way they do for LeBron?

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Serious question because I was too young to REALLY understand everything when MJ played, but was old enough that watching him in the NBA Finals is my earliest childhood memory... did people root against him the way they do for LeBron?

Who knew? That was pre-social media. Way different world today.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Serious question because I was too young to REALLY understand everything when MJ played, but was old enough that watching him in the NBA Finals is my earliest childhood memory... did people root against him the way they do for LeBron?

Watching Michael was the beginning of the end for me in watching the NBA. I guess I did root against him because, much like the stars of today (including but not limited to King James), he got every call in the world, or so it seemed to this guy and my Celtic green glasses. It seemed so much more pronounced for MJ. Plus he was everywhere on TV.

 

[ssbriefcase]

I agree 1-3 for Utah was great, but the rest of that team left a lot to be desired, and Malone was never the defensive prescence that Duncan in. San Antonio has always been great because of their depth, Utah had Greg Ostertag, Howard Eisley, Adam Keefe, and Greg Foster who were part of their regular rotation. There 5-8 nowhere near compared to what San Antonio could bring to the table when they put their bench in.

If Golden State wins this year you have to count them as one of the all time great teams. There plus/minus is better than any team since the 96 Bulls.

Definitely agree on the bench. But Malone was 1st team defense for both of those years. And Stockton was 2nd team defense a number of times. I do realize Duncan is one of the best pf defenders all time.

 

[RF2044]

Serious question because I was too young to REALLY understand everything when MJ played, but was old enough that watching him in the NBA Finals is my earliest childhood memory... did people root against him the way they do for LeBron?

Sure they did.

And large segments were disappointed when he overcame every obstacle en route to winning it every year at a certain point in his career. And then when his career was over, after all of the bizarre retirements and the weird stint with the Wizards, many of those same people rooting against him tipped their hats and gave him his due for the great player / champion / consumate competitor / ultimate winner that he was.

What's frosting the ass of the Lebron synchophants is that they believe wholeheartedly that he's better than Jordan [which is subjective], and they are upset that [1] this opinion isn't universally shared [and in fact is rejected by the majority of NBA fans], and [2] that his career might never be viewed in the same historical light as Jordan due to the championship evaluative criteria being so heavily weighted in MJ's favor.

 

[RF2044]

People always root against winners. Nothing new here and I agree, nothing to do with race. I could give two dumps who likes and doesn't like him. Personally it's about the idiocy of him not being great in these threads that is ridiculous (not saying you are saying that). People hate the Yankees, they hate the Lakers, they hate the Pats, and they hated Jordan. It is what it is.

44cuse

Duke is another perfect example.

In the recent [awesome, IMO] 30 for 30 about Christian Laetner, they described this phenomenon very well. At first,many of the same people rooting for Duke to knock off the established, undefeated bully [UNLV] were the same people rooting against them the following year when they sustained that success. Its human nature.

 

[moqui]

Oh, please. Poor Lebron--people root for him to fail. Plenty of people actively rooted against Jordan--the same way that people actively root against Tom Brady, the Yankees, etc. Whenever there is a top dog, you're going to have people who actively root against them succeeding. That sure isn't something unique to Lebron, despite what some would like to pretend.

the level of hatred is unusual for an individual basketball player. and it is a good thing - as in wrestling, the ability to draw heel heat is a good thing for the box office.

and please take note - I pointed out how similar the records of Lebron & Bird are and you immediately leaped to an impassioned defense of Bird. Never such a thing for Lebron.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

 

[RF2044]

the level of hatred is unusual for an individual basketball player. and it is a good thing - as in wrestling, the ability to draw heel heat is a good thing for the box office.

and please take note - I pointed out how similar the records of Lebron & Bird are and you immediately leaped to an impassioned defense of Bird. Never such a thing for Lebron.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

What you're saying is BS. You were wrong when you made that insinuation above, and you're wrong making the racially motivated attribution again here. There are numerous reasons why I am not a Lebron fan. I've listed those repeatedly on this forum several times over the years, and not one of them has to do with race. So you repeatedly making that suggestion is both off target and highly offensive--and I convey that acknowledging that you know that you are one of my favorite posters on this board, but you are wildly off target making that claim.

#2, It wasn't an impassioned "defense" -- it was a rebuttal to your claim that Bird is viewed more favorably because of race. No, he's viewed more favorably because his career is over, and it was more historically impactful for the league than Lebron's has been to date.

 

[moqui]

RF, you are right that it was wrong of me to insinuate racial motivation to you. You are right that there are many other possible reasons. I apologize for the insinuation.

but the fact is that, rationally compared, LeBron and Bird have had very equivalent careers, and the fact that one is reflexively loved by a certain segment of the population and the other is reflexively reviled is . . . curious. and for many (not you), race certainly plays a role in that difference.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Honestly I think there's a lot of residual Melo vs LeBron frustration for some.

 

[44cuse]

Serious question because I was too young to REALLY understand everything when MJ played, but was old enough that watching him in the NBA Finals is my earliest childhood memory... did people root against him the way they do for LeBron?

Not like LeBron and to RF's point...not like Laetner. But not everyone was n love with MJ. Same stuff...remember, his sneaker was like $85 or $100 when it came out. That was the most expensive sneaker and that in of itself caused people to complain (even the weapons were not as expensive two years later). But the difference is that there was no social media and no message boards. Athletes were no better people back then than they are now. I'd argue todays athlete is on average a better person, but that's just my opinion and easy argument for the recent NFL stuff for anyone who would choose to take path. And in this context LeBron is certainly a better individual than MJ. No one is going to debate that. MJ is personally my favorite player of all time and I think the best. But is a complete jerk and a ridiculous gambler who may or may not have bet on basketball (never proven)...yep. LeBron has been clean his whole career.

Message boards, ESPN, and social media have all changed the access to and perception of athletes and teams everywhere. The height of the anti-MJ sentiment for me was the Bryon Russell push off (and the conversation that started about superstars...not just MJ...getting calls other did not get). All of this is also obviously regional. Kobe is LOVED on the West Coast, but my East Coast friends generally hate him. As an example, because it came up in this thread, I remember far more people hating Bird than MJ. But never really understood why.

I'm sure others have differing opinions, but that is how I remembered it.

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

Honestly I think there's a lot of residual Melo vs LeBron frustration for some.

^^^^This. Syracuse and this board is a WEIRD place when it comes to this. As recently as last year there were still people making arguments that Melo and LeBron were far closer in skillset than they actually are.

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

Duke is another perfect example.

In the recent [awesome, IMO] 30 for 30 about Christian Laetner, they described this phenomenon very well. At first,many of the same people rooting for Duke to knock off the established, undefeated bully [UNLV] were the same people rooting against them the following year when they sustained that success. Its human nature.

Exactly. Can't believe I forgot about that one because it is possibly the best example closest to home. No fan base hates Duke (irrationally IMO) more (outside of their natural rivals) than Syracuse. Perfect example.

44cuse

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Honestly I think there's a lot of residual Melo vs LeBron frustration for some.

Bing, bing, bing, we have a weiner!

 

[NineOneSeven]

LOL at that flagrant 1

 

[skurey]

All he does is create wide open 3 after wide open 3.

No Love. No Kyrie. No problem.

 

[jordoo]

Atlanta is a good team with good players but absolutely no one to scare you.