What's It all about ...ACC

[arbitragegls]

So we now have the Presidents of all 15 institutions, including 'Cuse, FSU, Pitt, Clemson, GTech and Notre Dame, signing a love fest note saying all is okay...well its a start. A thread was started and I will tell you it is worth MORE THAN the paper it is written on...so here goes: (source--hopefully I got this right):
ACC and ESPN are in discussions that if come to fruition...it will be happy days are here again--damn we lost another election--look for the following as might have beens that actually can happen:
1. ESPN not to let ACC media contract stay where it is ...reasons are plentiful including but not limited to:
--Notre Dame home games with ACC teams
--The third most viewed conference by TV sets and gaining on #2 (Big 12 way behind)
2. ACC working on possibility of changing revenue distribution but not for the overall TV contract (split overall TV contract equally)
--example:
a) FSU in Orange Bowl pays $17,000,000+ pay out
b) take out travel/incidentals etc prior to splitting equally with conference (way done now)
--did conference play the game or did FSU?
c) perhaps give FSU an additional $4 million or whatever out of game
d) split the remainder equally among non participants of that game
e) Repeat for each and every football ball Bowl game each team plays in

Now a really cool move:
f) do the same for each bball team that gets to the NCAA's/NIT
--for each round team gets travel money plus a larger share of the dollars earned for each round before being equally distributed to other teams...
--now teams like Wake Forest if not making extra dollars on football field, can make extra dollars being a heck of a good bball team
G) Result is all teams share Overall TV contract...all teams receive equal distribution of football bowl games and NCAA and NIT bball games...except teams playing in BOWL or BBall Tournament receive a $$ sum off the top before distribution
Expectations are that 1 will happen soon and that 2 is under advisement and being discussed/well received...
3. Maryland fee to leave conference is important...but if #1 and potentially #2 happen, it really will not make a key difference for teams leaving...why leave if you play in a BOWL and/or bball tournament each team can bring in significant added dollars...this could be even more a significant $$$$ hit for 'Cuse...

Discuss/questions/fingers crossed!

 

[JeremyCuse]

So we now have the Presidents of all 15 institutions, including 'Cuse, FSU, Pitt, Clemson, GTech and Notre Dame, signing a love fest note saying all is okay...well its a start. A thread was started and I will tell you it is worth MORE THAN the paper it is written on...so here goes: (source--hopefully I got this right):
ACC and ESPN are in discussions that if come to fruition...it will be happy days are here again--damn we lost another election--look for the following as might have beens that actually can happen:
1. ESPN not to let ACC media contract stay where it is ...reasons are plentiful including but not limited to:
--Notre Dame home games with ACC teams
--The third most viewed conference by TV sets and gaining on #2 (Big 12 way behind)
2. ACC working on possibility of changing revenue distribution but not for the overall TV contract (split overall TV contract equally)
--example:
a) FSU in Orange Bowl pays $17,000,000+ pay out
b) take out travel/incidentals etc prior to splitting equally with conference (way done now)
--did conference play the game or did FSU?
c) perhaps give FSU an additional $4 million or whatever out of game
d) split the remainder equally among non participants of that game
e) Repeat for each and every football ball Bowl game each team plays in
Now a really cool move:
f) do the same for each bball team that gets to the NCAA's
--for each round team gets travel money plus a larger share of the dollars earned for each round before being equally distributed to other teams...
--now teams like Wake Forest if not making extra dollars on football field, can make extra dollars being a heck of a good bball team
G) Result is all teams share Overall TV contract...all teams receive equal distribution of football bowl games and NCAA and NIT bball games...except teams playing in BOWL or BBall Tournament receive a $$ sum off the top before distribution
Expectations are that 1 will happen soon and that 2 is under advisement and being discussed/well received...
3. Maryland fee to leave conference is important...but if #1 and potentially #2 happen, it really will not make a key difference for teams leaving...why leave if you play in a BOWL and/or bball tournament each team can bring in significant added dollars...this could be even more a significant $$$$ hit for 'Cuse...

Discuss/questions/fingers crossed!

Interesting, a redo of the TV deal/media contract is a must, changing revenue for bowl games/tourney is a great idea, will help cool hot heads at FSU/Clemson. Any of this coming to fruition would be huge, the dude of WVU is alllready scared.

 

[IHeartSUFball]

like it, felt that ESPN would not let the ACC fold and if we get a nice bump i'm sure it will make all parties very happy. Hope to hear about it soon, and squash an acc envy rumors ( wvu rednecks).

 

[oldpinepoint]

Wouldn't it be Notre dame away game at ACC members? ND contract with NBC is through 2015. Anything on a GOR?

 

[oldpinepoint]

Thanks for the info as always Arb. Enjoy your posts!

 

[phil77]

If the ACC stays together or falls apart rest on the shoulders of ESPN. If ESPN makes the league just as good as the B12 money wise then teams will not leave for the B12. Lets face it if the B10 or SEC comes call for teams they will probably leave. But this is about the ACC staying together longer than the B12. Because the Pac12 will have to add some teams from some place. I would much rather see the ACC along with ESPN/COMCAST or whoever continue to work on the ACC network. Because I think this will have a bigger impact than anything else. The year round value of an ACC network would be high IMO because of the quality of all sports in the ACC not just football. People will watch for the great basketball and baseball that the ACC plays. So while football drives the bus I think in an "ACC network" type setting basketball and baseball would be very important to keep ratings going all year long.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Sounds like ESPN is going to save some $$$$ from the tv contract with the BIg East. Take the proceeds and pump them into the ACC

 

[KaiserUEO]

thanks arb.

nobody is leaving the ACC.

we just now need to ensure 100% of all Cuse hoop and football games are on tv in the NYC area.

jack & cokes on me at the Pinstripe.

 

[All4SU]

If the ACC stays together or falls apart rest on the shoulders of ESPN. If ESPN makes the league just as good as the B12 money wise then teams will not leave for the B12. Lets face it if the B10 or SEC comes call for teams they will probably leave. But this is about the ACC staying together longer than the B12. Because the Pac12 will have to add some teams from some place. I would much rather see the ACC along with ESPN/COMCAST or whoever continue to work on the ACC network. Because I think this will have a bigger impact than anything else. The year round value of an ACC network would be high IMO because of the quality of all sports in the ACC not just football. People will watch for the great basketball and baseball that the ACC plays. So while football drives the bus I think in an "ACC network" type setting basketball and baseball would be very important to keep ratings going all year long.

The ACC is a better conference than the B12.
History - the ACC has been around a lot longer than the Bevo, which was put together after the BIg East. In the decades of the acc's existence, they have lost TWO teams - South Carolina, decades ago, and Maryland. The B12 has lost four name programs -- all larger names than Maryland in the last year alone.

Geography - the ACC is conveniently positioned along the eastern seaboard, covering a variety of major markets, and forming a continuous link from north to south. The B12 fits tucked between conferences, in the square states in the middle, with WVU stuck out on an island, and the SEC stands between them and virtually anyone else the might want to target.

Academics - hands down the ACC.

Commonality - beyond the history shared by the teams, the ACC is comprised of teams who are largely similar in academics and athletics. I suspect that Texas does not view the st of the Bevo to be their peers.

Balance - while the ACC has a North Carolina-centric base, this is changing as new members are brought in. The Bevo is entirely dependent on Texas.

Vulnerability - True that the b1g or SEC could poach teams from the ACC. But the same could be said of he B12, who will undoubtedly be the #1 target of the PAC12 when they expand. Te Bevo WILL lose teams.

Basketball - albeit the #2 revenue sport, it is still a large part of the conference brand. The ACC is far more impressive than the B12.

Money - the one area that the Bevo is trying to stress - because it's their only advantage, for now. With the losses the B12 has taken, and the additions by the ACC, the ACC stands to at least equal the b12, and the eastern markets are more populated.

The Bevo is in a bad position, and they know it. We should too.

 

[javadoc]

For the ACC, it really should come down to this.

The most D-1A talent is in California, Texas, and Florida. Pac 12, Big 12, and ACC should prosper as a result. We should be able to plant our flag in Florida and say that it belongs to us, and the conference should never become irrelevant. Miami and FSU should be good, and the rest of the league can sell recruits on playing in the state with regularity.

Demographically, it's the Big 10 that should be the ugly girl at the dance. The Big 10 network was a real stroke of genius. The conference doesn't even have to be good to keep raking in the $.

 

[Alsacs]

One question living here in Charlotte I have heard from people who work at Raycom that the ACC accessing how much it would cost to buy Raycom with ESPN/Disney as the partner in buying it out. The idea would be to turn the Raycom Network into a YES/NESN/MASN network put the ACC 2nd and 3rd tier rights on that network. Are you hearing the same Arb? The only thing is how much it would take to buyout the Raycom Network I heard its as high as 500 million dollars,and how they get the network on cable distributors, but my friend who works at Raycom says they own about 10% of cable providers.

 

[Toga]

I like the potential framework for bowl payouts. Mostly split but deserved additional payment to the bowl representative and with travel costs covered. That's the way it should be. I guess the bowl rep is still on the hook for its ticket allotment.

 

[JimBoston]

The ACC is a better conference than the B12.
History - the ACC has been around a lot longer than the Bevo, which was put together after the BIg East. In the decades of the acc's existence, they have lost TWO teams - South Carolina, decades ago, and Maryland. The B12 has lost four name programs -- all larger names than Maryland in the last year alone.

Geography - the ACC is conveniently positioned along the eastern seaboard, covering a variety of major markets, and forming a continuous link from north to south. The B12 fits tucked between conferences, in the square states in the middle, with WVU stuck out on an island, and the SEC stands between them and virtually anyone else the might want to target.

Academics - hands don the ACC.

Commonality - beyond the history shared by the teams, the ACC is comprised of teams who are largely similar in academics and athletics. I suspect that Texas does not view the st of the Bevo to be their peers.

Balance - while the ACC has a North Carolina-centric base, this is changing as new members are brought in. The Bevo is entirely dependent on Texas.

Vulnerability - True that the b1g or SEC could poach teams from the ACC. But the same could be said of he B12, who will undoubtedly be the #1 target of the PAC12 when they expand. Te Bevo WILL lose teams.

Basketball - albeit the #2 revenue sport, it is still a large part of the conference brand. The ACC is far more impressive than the B12.

Money - the one area that the Bevo is trying to stress - because it's their only advantage, for now. With the losses the B12 has taken, and the additions by the ACC, the ACC stands to at least equal the b12, and the eastern markets are more populated.

The Bevo is in a bad position, and they know it. We should too.

Wait a second. History in the ACC? The conference formed in 1953 and there are only 6 original members left as two charter members, South Carolina and Maryland have left. FSU joined in 1991. Almost half of the conference in 2015 will have joined since 2004. Do you think Florida St/Clemson/GT/NC St/UNC/Duke/Wake Forest/Virginia have shared history with BC/Syracuse/Pitt or for that matter ND?

Look, the Big East schools put out statements like this over the years and we know how that worked. Some of the same characters on the list made statements like this in the Big East! Personally, I find it funny that 4 of the schools attaching their name to this statement are still in the Big East!

The sign of solidarity would have been a grant of rights and it doesn't appear that is happening.

Personally, I think ESPN is scared as FOX has taken the offensive. The Big 10 network is FOX's baby and the Big 10 media rights are coming up. I don't think ESPN wants the ACC to break up and they would LOVE to have ND join for football, but unless they dramatically improve the TV contract, it's hard to see the ACC sticking together long term. I can't see how FSU and Clemson can stay if their key rivals, Florida and South Carolina, are getting potentially double the media and bowl fees in the future.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Wait a second. History in the ACC? The conference formed in 1953 and there are only 6 original members left as two charter members, South Carolina and Maryland have left. FSU joined in 1991. Almost half of the conference in 2015 will have joined since 2004. Do you think Florida St/Clemson/GT/NC St/UNC/Duke/Wake Forest/Virginia have shared history with BC/Syracuse/Pitt or for that matter ND?

Look, the Big East schools put out statements like this over the years and we know how that worked. Some of the same characters on the list made statements like this in the Big East! Personally, I find it funny that 4 of the schools attaching their name to this statement are still in the Big East!

The sign of solidarity would have been a grant of rights and it doesn't appear that is happening.

Personally, I think ESPN is scared as FOX has taken the offensive. The Big 10 network is FOX's baby and the Big 10 media rights are coming up. I don't think ESPN wants the ACC to break up and they would LOVE to have ND join for football, but unless they dramatically improve the TV contract, it's hard to see the ACC sticking together long term. I can't see how FSU and Clemson can stay if their key rivals, Florida and South Carolina, are getting potentially double the media and bowl fees in the future.

Florida and South Carolina are NOT getting double the media revenue in reality OR potentially. That is just Kooky. The SEC may be getting a bigger payout from the Sugar Bowl (40 million) than the ACC will get from the Orange Bowl (27.5 million) but again, that's not double anywhere outside of the borders of the Mountaineer State. You need to go the the Big 12 Expansion forum (Hive Sports Center) on Scout's Georgia Tech website. Spend a few weeks there and you'll figure out what's really going down.

 

[JimBoston]

Florida and South Carolina are NOT getting double the media revenue in reality OR potentially. That is just Kooky. The SEC may be getting a bigger payout from the Sugar Bowl (40 million) than the ACC will get from the Orange Bowl (27.5 million) but again, that's not double anywhere outside of the borders of the Mountaineer State. You need to go the the Big 12 Expansion forum (Hive Sports Center) on Scout's Georgia Tech website. Spend a few weeks there and you'll figure out what's really going down.

Kooky? When the SEC network comes out it will be a must have in all those states. Add in higher bowl payouts and higher basic media rights and SEC will be getting double the ACC in the future. Shoot, Maryland and Rutgers are projected to make over double the ACC payout!!

 

[All4SU]

Wait a second. History in the ACC? The conference formed in 1953 and there are only 6 original members left as two charter members, South Carolina and Maryland have left. FSU joined in 1991. Almost half of the conference in 2015 will have joined since 2004. Do you think Florida St/Clemson/GT/NC St/UNC/Duke/Wake Forest/Virginia have shared history with BC/Syracuse/Pitt or for that matter ND?/quote]

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When a league is formed with only 8 teams (in 1953), it's impossible to compare apples to apples today. But suffice to say, losing two teams in 60 years is pretty good, compared to the B12 losing four in one year. And my math still says 6 of 8 means that 75% of the original members from 1953 are still in the conference. The Big12 lost 33% of their membership last year alone. And those four teams -- Colorado, Nebraska, Texas A&M and Missouri -- ALL compare favorably to Maryland. That's a pretty big hit, wouldn't you say?

As far as "almost half of the (ACC) will have joined since 2004..." that's obviously true (BC, Syr, Pitt, LVille, Miami, VT) if you consider 6 to be half of 9. And if you do, then you would agree that the B12 lost "almost" half of their conference last year. And the six new teams in the BE all have a great deal of commonality. They were all in the same conference together -- okay, L'Ville wasn't. But regardless, the original bullet point you highlighted was "history" and the ACC as a conference has greater history than the B12, no matter how you slice it.

 

[Alsacs]

Kooky? When the SEC network comes out it will be a must have in all those states. Add in higher bowl payouts and higher basic media rights and SEC will be getting double the ACC in the future. Shoot, Maryland and Rutgers are projected to make over double the ACC payout!!

You are forgetting the 3rd tier rights weren't part of the ACC contract with ESPN. The Clemson and Florida St's of the world will be able to sell some of their baseball rights to SSN, and Sunshine Network, as well as their coaches shows which should be good for 5-10 million dollars a year. Maryland and Rutgers will not be receiving full shares as B1G members until they payoff their prorated portion of the startup costs for the BTN. They will receiving good money, but not the 40 million a year you spewing. Second, the SEC network won't be profitable off the bat it unless its on the basic cable tier right away. I highly doubt outside of the SEC region will the network be available right away. Directv won't add it unless its leveraged by the SEC's partner. Stop repeating rumors and speculation coming out of WVFU

 

[NKR1978]

Wait a second. History in the ACC? The conference formed in 1953 and there are only 6 original members left as two charter members, South Carolina and Maryland have left. FSU joined in 1991. Almost half of the conference in 2015 will have joined since 2004. Do you think Florida St/Clemson/GT/NC St/UNC/Duke/Wake Forest/Virginia have shared history with BC/Syracuse/Pitt or for that matter ND?

Look, the Big East schools put out statements like this over the years and we know how that worked. Some of the same characters on the list made statements like this in the Big East! Personally, I find it funny that 4 of the schools attaching their name to this statement are still in the Big East!

The sign of solidarity would have been a grant of rights and it doesn't appear that is happening.

Personally, I think ESPN is scared as FOX has taken the offensive. The Big 10 network is FOX's baby and the Big 10 media rights are coming up. I don't think ESPN wants the ACC to break up and they would LOVE to have ND join for football, but unless they dramatically improve the TV contract, it's hard to see the ACC sticking together long term. I can't see how FSU and Clemson can stay if their key rivals, Florida and South Carolina, are getting potentially double the media and bowl fees in the future.

Which Big 12 school are you a fan of? You sound like you've spent a lot of time on the Big 12 boards.

 

[All4SU]

Which Big 12 school are you a fan of? You sound like you've spent a lot of time on the Big 12 boards.

Yeah, you can always tell when someone shows up with virtually no posts, then takes a hard line.

 

[WickedOrange]

When does the bubble pop? Between endowment "hedge funds" and college football... it's just a matter of time before the IRS comes calling.

 

[Opus]

Which Big 12 school are you a fan of? You sound like you've spent a lot of time on the Big 12 boards.

Ha, I had the same thought.

 

[DoctorBombay]

One question living here in Charlotte I have heard from people who work at Raycom that the ACC accessing how much it would cost to buy Raycom with ESPN/Disney as the partner in buying it out. The idea would be to turn the Raycom Network into a YES/NESN/MASN network put the ACC 2nd and 3rd tier rights on that network. Are you hearing the same Arb? The only thing is how much it would take to buyout the Raycom Network I heard its as high as 500 million dollars,and how they get the network on cable distributors, but my friend who works at Raycom says they own about 10% of cable providers.

Wasn't Raycom on the verge of bankruptcy before Swofford rescued them w/ the ESPN contract?
$500 million seems like a helluva number for Raycom, but I love the idea.
If ESPN/Disney pull that trigger, we are as good as gold!

 

[arbitragegls]

One question living here in Charlotte I have heard from people who work at Raycom that the ACC accessing how much it would cost to buy Raycom with ESPN/Disney as the partner in buying it out. The idea would be to turn the Raycom Network into a YES/NESN/MASN network put the ACC 2nd and 3rd tier rights on that network. Are you hearing the same Arb? The only thing is how much it would take to buyout the Raycom Network I heard its as high as 500 million dollars,and how they get the network on cable distributors, but my friend who works at Raycom says they own about 10% of cable providers.

Good evening...as you know Raycom owns 50% of the "network" as ACC did not want the start up charges...of course the buy-out can be anywhere from the 50% downward...ESPN/Disney want the rights etc. It could be a strong franchise network over the east coast...you are not too far off but only in talking stage so can't tell outcome as yet.

 

[Alsacs]

Good evening...as you know Raycom owns 50% of the "network" as ACC did not want the start up charges...of course the buy-out can be anywhere from the 50% downward...ESPN/Disney want the rights etc. It could be a strong franchise network over the east coast...you are not too far off but only in talking stage so can't tell outcome as yet.

If Raycom only owns 50% of the network getting ESPN/Disney to pony up with the conference in buying out the network shouldn't be a problem. Raycom has done an outstanding job with its digital network and vault they have created for ACC fans. The biggest problem an ACC network faces are getting the network on basic cable tiers. In ACC country that wouldn't be a problem, but getting the channel on in Chicago, NYC, Dallas, LA, etc. would be the problem. With Charlotte being the home of ESPNU I don't think production costs would be that high, but I feel the ACC conference should bite the bullet and tell ESPN/Disney they will pony up more of liquidity in the purchase in exchange for their help in getting the production and cable tv problems taken care. In this scenario ESPN would be getting an additional revenue stream without putting to much capital into. The ACC needs to bear the risk as ESPN will be able to leverage the SEC network against the ACC. Also, the Fighting Irish need to sign with ESPN and if they do then ESPN would need to compensate the conference an additional million a year for each school.

 

[JimBoston]

Which Big 12 school are you a fan of? You sound like you've spent a lot of time on the Big 12 boards.

Ha, ha ha! Certainly not a WVU fan!!!

I'm sorry I'm not a poster, but it is what it is. I want the ACC to succeed, but I'm skeptical due to the bad media contract, limited number of state flagship universities, the lack of a long history among the schools, and the fact that FSU and Clemson badly want to go to the SEC. I think the rest of the schools want to make it work. In addition, I don't agree with ND's partial membership as they could stabilize the conference immediately. Force them to go all in or join another conference. ND's conference options are now very limited.

As for an ACC network, it all comes down to cost to the cable companies. In Boston, I have BTN, but Comcast only pays $0.10 per month. In Big 10 markets, they charge ~$0.85 per month. I really don't see an ACC channel getting paid much in Boston due to the lack of interest in college sports which is why I thought using ESPN for all content was the right decision for the ACC.