Who will provide the fire next year?

[reedny]

If Diagne is not at center when Coleman is not in the game, then who is going to play center...Obokoh????

Good qeustion, exactly why I think we're sitting ducks on the low block unless we get incredibly lucky in recruiting and land another big. Obokoh is a project, with issues at both ends. But he's 6'9 and he has experience. Did you want to play a 6'8" freshman in the middle ... against experienced 7 footers? At least Obokoh's played there for a year.

Either way, if DC's out of the game, look to get slaughtered on the glass (even worse than last season).

 

[Delmar]

TR will go off next year. He'll hit that 15 ft. jumper that he passed up on 8 times a game. He'll average 18 pts. 8 rebounds.

I have a feeling about this, and I'm almost always wrong.

 

[jordoo]

If Diagne is not at center when Coleman is not in the game, then who is going to play center...Obokoh????

Right! And Obokoh is no bigger than 6-8 himself plus he doesn't have that wide body and huge reach like Diange. I think Diange will surprise many here in how much space he takes up as a 6-8 guy and how many shots he effects/blocks on the way up. Rick Jackson used to block a ton of shots before the offensive player was able to explode up past him and he wasn't much of a leaper but he did have long arms and good anticipation. You may know this but doesn't Diange block shots with either hand? I'm not saying Diange won't or cannot play the 4 but IMO backup center will be his bigger role.

Bottom line is that if someone expects Obokoh to be the backup center I expect that someone to be very pleasantly surprised by Diange. Which is not to say he's guaranteed to light the world on fire, but I think he can contribute and be a solid performer right out of the gate.

 

[jordoo]

Diange: Measured 6'8 (in shoes) 249 lbs, with a 7'3 wingspan at the 2013 LeBron James Skills Academy ... Measured 6'8.5 (in shoes) 241 lbs, with a 7'2 wingspan at the 2014 Nike Big Man Skills Academy
Obokoh:
Listed at 6-9 but looks shorter than that to me on the court last year.

I bet when standing next to each other Diange is every bit as tall as Obokoh. It sure doesn't look like Obokoh has any seriously long wingspan like 7' plus

 

[iommi]

Right! And Obokoh is no bigger than 6-8 himself plus he doesn't have that wide body and huge reach like Diange. I think Diange will surprise many here in how much space he takes up as a 6-8 guy and how many shots he effects/blocks on the way up. Rick Jackson used to block a ton of shots before the offensive player was able to explode up past him and he wasn't much of a leaper but he did have long arms and good anticipation. You may know this but doesn't Diange block shots with either hand? I'm not saying Diange won't or cannot play the 4 but IMO backup center will be his bigger role.

Bottom line is that someone expects Obokoh to be the backup center I expect that someone to be very pleasantly surprised by Diange. Which is not to say he's guaranteed to light the world on fire, but I think he can contribute and be a solid performer right out of the gate.

I've seen Diagne play in person a few times and will see him again on the 30th. He's ambidextrous. He does block shots most of the time with his right hand. He also has tree trunk thighs.; he's very difficult to move out of the way. He'll be more than fine at center on both ends IMO. Diagne plays a lot bigger than 6'8".

 

[Brooky03]

I like your enthusiasm. Jordoo seems to think Diagne's going to surprise, also. And that may be the case, but I doubt it will be at Center. If in fact he's 6'8, unless he's a pogo stick like Otis Hill, I don't see how we can expect a player that size to anchor the zone. In this day and age, the bigs we face in the ACC will have a 3-4 inch height advantage. That will pose problems at both ends, even if he's "long".

More likely, Diagne will back up TR at the 4. And this is intriguing, since he seems to have an established mid-range, rather than a low block, game. Also, having him on the other side of the basket from DC would give us some badly-needed beef on the boards.

Don't sleep on Lydon either. At 6'9 and mobile, he might also get some time behind MG .. another spot where we're thin.

Agreed that Diagne will get most of his PT at the 4. If Coleman can't go at the 5, though, there are worse contingency plans than Obokoh and Diagne splitting time.

 

[br801]

Although there's little in the way of proven depth going into next season, I feel optimistic about the upcoming season because Roberson is a stud on the rise, Gbinije and Cooney are battle-tested and talented, Joseph will likely make a big leap as a sophomore, and JB has four talented incoming freshmen who (collectively) should be able to contribute if called upon to log important minutes. That said, the team will go as far as Coleman's knees can take them; if he stays healthy and plays 25-30 minutes per game, he will put up some nice scoring and rebounding numbers and be an emotional leader on and off the court.

 

[007]

Agreed that Diagne will get most of his PT at the 4. If Coleman can't go at the 5, though, there are worse contingency plans than Obokoh and Diagne splitting time.

Obokoh works hard and I am sure he is a great kid, but what be a "worse contingency plan" than having Obo playing 20 minutes a game?

 

[bevosu]

Joseph...I don't know if his problem last year was mental or physical, or both, but I don't have the confidence that some have that he'll develop into a better than average PG. I hope he does.

Scoring will probably be a problem. We've shown in the past couple of years that we really don't have competent shooters. Richardson (maybe) will be a plus?

Coleman has great offensive potential if he can stay healthy. I agree with Jordoo that Diange could surprise a lot of people...although, as said, freshmen bigs normally take time to blossom.

 

[moqui]

Obokoh works hard and I am sure he is a great kid, but what be a "worse contingency plan" than having Obo playing 20 minutes a game?

Doyin Akintobi-Adeyeye playing 20 mpg?

 

[007]

Doyin Akintobi-Adeyeye playing 20 mpg?

Ok, there's one. I suppose no one playing the 5 would be two...

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Maybe my cynicism is getting in the way, but my thoughts on those two positions are as follows:

Center: Coleman doesn't play. Obokoh starts and is as passable as any second-year Syracuse big man (i.e., adequate rebounder, not a part of the offense, defensively improved but foul-prone). I don't know anything about Diagne but fear that his first-year ceiling is right around Obokoh's - Boeheim won't want him to shoot the ball and his unfamiliarity with the defense will lead to yelling.

Off-guard: come hell or high water, Cooney will play 37 minutes a game. 40 down the conference stretch. If he doesn't have a career year, we're not getting good (to say nothing of efficient) production from this spot. I hope the talented freshman behind him is the patient type.

Here's hoping I'm wrong.

I hope you're wrong about DC2. And at least reports are now that he is healthy.

Got to say you have a point about big minutes for Cooney, and for that matter MG. But I think Malachi's minutes are more dependent on KJ2. If KJ2 doesn't improve significantly, and fast, it will be very tempting for JB to move MG to the point. An MG, Cooney, Malachi lineup with DC2 and TR down low, has a lot of offensive potential.

 

[Dave85]

We've seen this movie once or twice before. I'd love to see the young bigs get a chance right away, but that opportunity isn't usually there in the Syracuse seniority system.

I don't think JB works this way. I think whoever plays best in practice gets PT. Correlation doesn't always prove causation. I think the older players just play better in practice. I think JB is all about the wins. Every night it's all about putting the best possible players on the floor. I don't think JB plays preferences over talent.

 

[Dave85]

Joseph...I don't know if his problem last year was mental or physical, or both, but I don't have the confidence that some have that he'll develop into a better than average PG. I hope he does.

I don't understand what all the hate-on Kaleb is about. If you look at his freshmen numbers they are pretty much on par with other freshmen:

http://www.orangehoops.org/

Look at the year by year stats. Kaleb is doing fine compared to other freshment PG in our history. Tyler Ennis was insanely good as a Freshmen. He was just as good as Triche and Jardine as Seniors. So if you compare Kaleb to those three guys you are just being spoiled. It's a big stage for a freshmen to step into. He will do much better next year. He may not have 2-and-done numbers but he will be better. He may be four year player. I think we need to be a little more patient with Kaleb.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I don't understand what all the hate-on Kaleb is about. If you look at his freshmen numbers they are pretty much on par with other freshmen:

http://www.orangehoops.org/

Look at the year by year stats. Kaleb is doing fine compared to other freshment PG in our history. Tyler Ennis was insanely good as a Freshmen. He was just as good as Triche and Jardine as Seniors. So if you compare Kaleb to those three guys you are just being spoiled. It's a big stage for a freshmen to step into. He will do much better next year. He may not have 2-and-done numbers but he will be better. He may be four year player. I think we need to be a little more patient with Kaleb.

You can't just look at the numbers. By the end of the season, any minutes Joseph was playing was executed in a manner not to make any mistakes. For god's sake he was being pulled even in late Feb in favor of our SF, Silent G, because he couldn't bring the ball up without picking up his dribble, getting stripped, or not getting into the offense. That just shouldn't happen and I don't care how old he is or what stage it was. I watch a TON of basketball and I cannot a remember a player anywhere on any team EVER struggling so much with the ball just simply bringing it up. I expect him to get better for sure! How much we'll see.

 

[Brooky03]

Obokoh works hard and I am sure he is a great kid, but what be a "worse contingency plan" than having Obo playing 20 minutes a game?

Having Dashonte Riley play 20 minutes a game.

 

[OlsenRyan13]

Just to throw in my two cents, I think this year's team has the potential to be really good or really average. It's a weird year in that the starting 5 will be relatively unchanged but the bench will be entirely new. I think this makes for a good combination, as the starters can work this offseason to improve their games and in addition we will be getting a bunch of new faces, any of whom could step up as a freshman. You could really point to almost any guy on this team and say "hey, I think that guy has a chance to be really good this year, or he could be very average." If I were to guess, this team will start the year a little shaky but will really develop throughout the course of the year to the point that they are a contender come tourney time. This biggest factors on this year's team will be how KJ plays and if Coleman can stay healthy. I also think either Roberson or Gbinije could be in for a big year like Rak had this year.

 

[reedny]

I've seen Diagne play in person a few times and will see him again on the 30th. He's ambidextrous. He does block shots most of the time with his right hand. He also has tree trunk thighs.; he's very difficult to move out of the way. He'll be more than fine at center on both ends IMO. Diagne plays a lot bigger than 6'8".

I remain skeptical about playing a 6-8 guy at the 5 (sounds like Andre' Hawkins). He's giving up a couple inches (and 30 pounds) against Kennedy Meeks, and 3-4 inches against Tobey, Jekiri, Bojanovsky, etc... Playing him at the 4, backing up TR, makes much more sense... although if Obokoh can't provide meaningful minutes we may not have a choice.

 

[reedny]

Just to throw in my two cents, I think this year's team has the potential to be really good or really average. It's a weird year in that the starting 5 will be relatively unchanged but the bench will be entirely new. I think this makes for a good combination, as the starters can work this offseason to improve their games and in addition we will be getting a bunch of new faces, any of whom could step up as a freshman. You could really point to almost any guy on this team and say "hey, I think that guy has a chance to be really good this year, or he could be very average." If I were to guess, this team will start the year a little shaky but will really develop throughout the course of the year to the point that they are a contender come tourney time. This biggest factors on this year's team will be how KJ plays and if Coleman can stay healthy. I also think either Roberson or Gbinije could be in for a big year like Rak had this year.

Agree except for one thing: Rak is gone. Don't underestimate what a huge hole that is to fill. Where is the shot-blocking and defensive intimidation going to come from? Who's going to replace his 18 ppg? We have no one on roster (or coming in) who can score anywhere near that level, or even play above the rim (except TR .. who's 205). DC2 is coming off 2 years of injuries .. I love the kid and wish the best for him. But playing him for more than 25 minutes is asking for trouble (if he can even do it). Behind him are: a project and a 6-8 freshman forward.

Call me a skeptic, but the only thing I can think of that will fill our deficits in the middle (depth, experience, athleticism, scoring, defense, etc...) is to recruit another big.

 

[OlsenRyan13]

Agree except for one thing: Rak is gone. Don't underestimate what a huge hole that is to fill. Where is the shot-blocking and defensive intimidation going to come from? Who's going to replace his 18 ppg? We have no one on roster (or coming in) who can score anywhere near that level, or even play above the rim (except TR .. who's 205). DC2 is coming off 2 years of injuries .. I love the kid and wish the best for him. But playing him for more than 25 minutes is asking for trouble (if he can even do it). Behind him are: a project and a 6-8 freshman forward.

Call me a skeptic, but the only thing I can think of that will fill our deficits in the middle (depth, experience, athleticism, scoring, defense, etc...) is to recruit another big.

Fair point, but let's not forget the other 3 years of Rak. He was pretty much non-existent before his senior year. That's what happens when you have talented D1 basketball players, someone will step up. Someone will fill the scoring void because that's how basketball works. Your point about the defense is 100% correct though and I think it could be a big concern if Coleman can't give us many minutes or gets hurt.

 

[reedny]

Fair point, but let's not forget the other 3 years of Rak. He was pretty much non-existent before his senior year. That's what happens when you have talented D1 basketball players, someone will step up. Someone will fill the scoring void because that's how basketball works. Your point about the defense is 100% correct though and I think it could be a big concern if Coleman can't give us many minutes or gets hurt.

Offensively, that's true -- Rak exploded. We might be able to replace his scoring with the guys returning and better bench production from the newcomers -- but the points aren't coming from the inside. That will create balance problems.

Defensively, we have an even bigger problem. We've had Rak (and other bigs) in the past 4-5 years who can elevate and block shots. Next year, while everyone's excited to get 8-10 from DC2 (and an occasional put-back by TR), what concerns me is that we have no rim protector. We lack size, depth and athleticism inside. This problem surfaced last year when CM went down. TR functioned as well as he could at the 4 at 6-7/205 pounds. But now we've lost both our athletic bigs .. and what's left is relatively flat-footed big bodies that can't elevate, block shots above the rim or get to the corner. I can't believe we can't find a 7 footer (or close) to play in front of 30k. If Miami and G-Tech can do it (twice), we can find someone.

 

[pearl31]

Just to throw in my two cents, I think this year's team has the potential to be really good or really average. It's a weird year in that the starting 5 will be relatively unchanged but the bench will be entirely new. I think this makes for a good combination, as the starters can work this offseason to improve their games and in addition we will be getting a bunch of new faces, any of whom could step up as a freshman. You could really point to almost any guy on this team and say "hey, I think that guy has a chance to be really good this year, or he could be very average." If I were to guess, this team will start the year a little shaky but will really develop throughout the course of the year to the point that they are a contender come tourney time. This biggest factors on this year's team will be how KJ plays and if Coleman can stay healthy. I also think either Roberson or Gbinije could be in for a big year like Rak had this year.

Nice post.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't think JB works this way. I think whoever plays best in practice gets PT. Correlation doesn't always prove causation. I think the older players just play better in practice. I think JB is all about the wins. Every night it's all about putting the best possible players on the floor. I don't think JB plays preferences over talent.

Those are reasonable points.

I don't ever see practice anymore, so I won't (and can't) contradict any of this. And I'm probably over-generalizing in suggesting that there's some "system" in place. There are always exceptions. In general, though, I see it like this: a freshman comes in, is lost on defense, doesn't really know what's required of a D-I player in practice, and sits for much of January-March. (Again, there are exceptions to this.) He has his March meeting with Boeheim; recommits himself; and comes back fit, knowledgeable, and driven; he plays well and frequently as a sophomore and junior. As a senior, he's cemented in the rotation and can go through the motions in practice without having to think too much about it, and Boeheim is glad because he doesn't think too much about managing the player. If there's a little drop-off in level of play (which we see -- especially defensively -- with many seniors), so be it.

That's over-simplified, but it's how I see a lot of four-year SU careers play out. Call it the Kris Joseph model.

 

[Brooky03]

Offensively, that's true -- Rak exploded. We might be able to replace his scoring with the guys returning and better bench production from the newcomers -- but the points aren't coming from the inside. That will create balance problems.

Defensively, we have an even bigger problem. We've had Rak (and other bigs) in the past 4-5 years who can elevate and block shots. Next year, apart from DC2 (and an occasional put-back by TR), we lack size, depth and athleticism near the rim. This issue emerged last year when CM went down. TR functioned as well as he could at the 4 at 6-7/205 pounds. But now we've lost both our athletic bigs .. and what's left is relatively flat-footed big bodies that can't elevate, block shots above the rim or get to the corner. I can't believe we can't find a 7 footer (or close) to play in front of 30k. If Miami and G-Tech can do it (twice), we can find someone.

Coleman can score down low. I don't expect him to get us 17ppg like Rak did, but Coleman can score. If he stays healthy, our balance will be okay.

I agree the defense will take a hit down low. However, we should have a capable backup Center this season in either Obokoh or Diagne. Rak had to essentially play zero defense at times last season and just give up easy layup because he couldn't risk fouling. This year, Coleman shouldn't have that worry. Coleman is also built for pushing guys out of the paint. Rak couldn't really do that. Outside of that, we're returing 4 starters who should be plenty versed in the zone to be formidable. The zone is a little smaller than usual, but 'smaller than usual' for us is still bigger/longer than 90% of teams we'll play.

 

[reedny]

Coleman can score down low. I don't expect him to get us 17ppg like Rak did, but Coleman can score. If he stays healthy, our balance will be okay.

I agree the defense will take a hit down low. However, we should have a capable backup Center this season in either Obokoh or Diagne. Rak had to essentially play zero defense at times last season and just give up easy layup because he couldn't risk fouling. This year, Coleman shouldn't have that worry. Coleman is also built for pushing guys out of the paint. Rak couldn't really do that. Outside of that, we're returing 4 starters who should be plenty versed in the zone to be formidable. The zone is a little smaller than usual, but 'smaller than usual' for us is still bigger/longer than 90% of teams we'll play.

I'm not saying the cupboard is completely bare, and I think you're right that Coleman will score. My estimate is about 8-10 ppg, which would double his most recent average playing 26 (twice his previous 13) minutes (link below). Unfortunately, that's half the offensive output we had from the post last year -- with no other player capable of taking up the slack. TR may increase his average by a couple points, although IMO he's already playing out of position. But I think we take a hit of 6-8 points inside, which is significant.

Even with Coleman playing, what, 25 mpg, I think rebounding will again be a problem. No doubt he's a force on the glass. As you pointed out, he might be a better positional defender and rebounder than Rak because you can't move him out of the way. But he's only one guy, on one side of the rim. Who's next to him (6-7 205)?; and who's behind him (a 6-8 freshman backup)? Wow. I'll be covering my eyes when we play UNC, Virginia, Duke, Florida State, Miami, etc...

And Defensively, we're sitting ducks. We don't have a shot-blocker, or anyone who can play above the rim. We're short, thin, inexperienced and unathletic inside. Even with Rak (without CM) we had trouble last year. Some of that was penetration by opposing guards. But rebounding, low-block scoring and interior defense are about a take a hit. And I see no way out, except a JUCO or some amazing recruit the staff pulls out of the air.

http://cuse.com/documents/2015/4/27//SUFINALstats3_24_14.pdf?id=8880