Why are inbound passes allowed to go to the back court?

[SBU72]

With the discussions on the proposed rule modifications, this came to mind. I have never really understood why this is allowed. does anybody? Now if they are allowing only a total of 10 seconds to get the ball across mid court (with some exceptions) why can teams pass the ball from the end line of the front court to all the way to the back court with out it not being over and back or be part of the 10 second count? Certainly would add to the defense.

 

[Toga]

Pretty sure not allowed many moons ago.

 

[SBU72]

Pretty sure not allowed many moons ago.

Well I have been watching college basketball for almost 600 moons and don't remember it ever being different.

 

[Toga]

Well I have been watching college basketball for almost 600 moons and don't remember it ever being different.

Moon #609

 

[dasher]

forked tongue

 

[hallcity]

The theory is that when the ball is out of bounds it isn't on either side of half court. It's out of bounds. The more interesting rule to me is that if an offensive player tips a rebound into the backcourt, a teammate can retrieve it without a backcourt violation being called.

 

[SUMBA]

As nearly as I can tell, it has to do with control of the ball. Below are the rules governing possession in the front court and the back court.

According to Article 5, if a ball is tipped by a defender in the front court, either team may recover it in the back court. The act of tipping the ball by a defender sends the ball into the rather Orwellian state of being neither existing in the front nor back court. In order to regain status in the front or back court, control must be reestablished. Should a defender tip the ball out of bounds, sending it into non existence in either court, it creates the same situation as retrieving it in the back court. The loss of control created by the act of the defender tipping the ball eliminates any delineation of placement in front or back court. Thus, the inbounding team is permitted to pass anywhere on the court.

To summarize: In order for the ball to be in the front or back court, a player must have control of said ball. The act of tipping the ball by a defender eliminates control and nullifies front or back court allowing either team to regain control anywhere on the court.


Art. 3. A live ball is in the front court or back court of the team in control as follows:

a. A ball that is in contact with a player or with the playing court shall be in the back court when either the ball or the player (either player when the ball is touching more than one) is touching the back court. It shall be in the front court when neither the ball nor the player is touching the back court.

b. A ball that is not in contact with a player or the playing court retains the same status as when it was last in contact with a player or the playing court.

c. During a dribble from back court to front court, the ball shall be in the front court when both feet of the dribbler and the ball touch the playing court entirely in the front court.

Art. 4. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his back court (with any part of his body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from the front court while that player’s team was in team control and that player or his teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the back court.

Art. 5. A pass in the front court that is deflected by a defensive player so that the ball goes into the back court may be recovered by either team.

Art. 6. Regardless of where the throw-in spot is located, the throw-in team may cause the ball to go into the back court before player control has been established by the throw-in team on the playing court.

I believe that should an inbounds pass go into the back court the 10 second rule does apply. As soon as control is established front and back court rules apply.

 

[Crusty]

Over and back applies to a ball that is in play. Since the ball is not in play until it is in bounded, an inbound pass to the back court is the same as one inbounded from the base line.

 

[SBU72]

As nearly as I can tell, it has to do with control of the ball. Below are the rules governing possession in the front court and the back court.

According to Article 5, if a ball is tipped by a defender in the front court, either team may recover it in the back court. The act of tipping the ball by a defender sends the ball into the rather Orwellian state of being neither existing in the front nor back court. In order to regain status in the front or back court, control must be reestablished. Should a defender tip the ball out of bounds, sending it into non existence in either court, it creates the same situation as retrieving it in the back court. The loss of control created by the act of the defender tipping the ball eliminates any delineation of placement in front or back court. Thus, the inbounding team is permitted to pass anywhere on the court.

To summarize: In order for the ball to be in the front or back court, a player must have control of said ball. The act of tipping the ball by a defender eliminates control and nullifies front or back court allowing either team to regain control anywhere on the court.


Art. 3. A live ball is in the front court or back court of the team in control as follows:

a. A ball that is in contact with a player or with the playing court shall be in the back court when either the ball or the player (either player when the ball is touching more than one) is touching the back court. It shall be in the front court when neither the ball nor the player is touching the back court.

b. A ball that is not in contact with a player or the playing court retains the same status as when it was last in contact with a player or the playing court.

c. During a dribble from back court to front court, the ball shall be in the front court when both feet of the dribbler and the ball touch the playing court entirely in the front court.

Art. 4. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his back court (with any part of his body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from the front court while that player’s team was in team control and that player or his teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the back court.

Art. 5. A pass in the front court that is deflected by a defensive player so that the ball goes into the back court may be recovered by either team.

Art. 6. Regardless of where the throw-in spot is located, the throw-in team may cause the ball to go into the back court before player control has been established by the throw-in team on the playing court.

I believe that should an inbounds pass go into the back court the 10 second rule does apply. As soon as control is established front and back court rules apply.

Makes sense. Didn't think of it that way. Thanks.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

What about how if you cant get the ball over half court in ten seconds, you can call a timeout and get a new ten seconds? The power of a time out should be limited to stopping of time, not functional adding of time.

 

[Brooky03]

What about how if you cant get the ball over half court in ten seconds, you can call a timeout and get a new ten seconds? The power of a time out should be limited to stopping of time, not functional adding of time.

I think this is being addressed with the proposed rule changes. I could be wrong though.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Makes sense. Didn't think of it that way. Thanks.

I still think it would be a great idea if they were to prevent those passes into the backcourt once you establish the front court.

 

[Brooky03]

I still think it would be a great idea if they were to prevent those passes into the backcourt once you establish the front court.

What about when the inbounds is due to a kicked ball or a defensive foul? Not being able to inbound to the backcourt puts the offense at a disadvantage caused by the defense breaking the rules.

 

[Dave85]

I love the rules discussion but I really wish there was a way to get the referees to uniformly call charge versus block calls. As far as I can tell for the most part is the call is determined by who is the home team. I think referees like to cause the home crowd to cheer. They may do this subconsciously. Or they may be subconsciously jading their calls for fear of death by the home crowd. For whatever reason, the range and variability of charge versus block is never consistent not only between games but within the same game. Without really good rules the game is severely degraded. I really hate it when the referees have so much power over decided the outcome of a basketball game. The rules on charge versus block should be unambiguous with very little interpretation (if it is possible to have it this way).

 

[CuseFaninVT]

What about when the inbounds is due to a kicked ball or a defensive foul? Not being able to inbound to the backcourt puts the offense at a disadvantage caused by the defense breaking the rules.

Fair point. Not saying I have all the answers, but I really hate seeing the guy under the basket throw the ball back three quarter court because his teammates are too lazy to actually get open.

 

[Cowtown]

What about how if you cant get the ball over half court in ten seconds, you can call a timeout and get a new ten seconds? The power of a time out should be limited to stopping of time, not functional adding of time.

In FIBA, it's only 8 seconds and it doesn't reset in that situation. If the ball goes out of bounds off the defense in the backcourt, the offense gets it back with whatever was on the 8 second count. And to pass the ball into the backcourt, after having established possession in the front court (both feet and the ball) as described in the OP is a violation. Yep, even for JV girls.

It's my understanding there's a coaches panel that provides input into NCAA rules (but I've been wrong before). Coaches don't like change, especially changes that have an impact on the amount of control they can exert over a game. It's complete crap (IMHO) that coaches (or players) can call a time-out during play and maintain possession of the ball that way. In FIBA, a TO can only be requested by a head coach during a dead ball. Technically, they're supposed to request it at the scorer's table prior to the ball becoming dead, but we give it to them anyway. It speeds the game up and it's one less thing to argue over.

Another interesting twist on the TO's is that you get only 2 in the first half, three in the 2nd half and they don't "roll over." You only get 1 in an OT period (no roll over there as well). And you can only have two in the last 2 minutes, even if you still had 3 going into that phase. But you can advance the ball to the front court with a TO in the last 2 minutes of the 2nd half.

 

[Cowtown]

I love the rules discussion but I really wish there was a way to get the referees to uniformly call charge versus block calls. As far as I can tell for the most part is the call is determined by who is the home team. I think referees like to cause the home crowd to cheer. They may do this subconsciously. Or they may be subconsciously jading their calls for fear of death by the home crowd. For whatever reason, the range and variability of charge versus block is never consistent not only between games but within the same game. Without really good rules the game is severely degraded. I really hate it when the referees have so much power over decided the outcome of a basketball game. The rules on charge versus block should be unambiguous with very little interpretation (if it is possible to have it this way).

That's never going to happen, Dave. Never. You gotta get over that. Block/charge is a judgment call, just like any other foul call, so there will always be interpretation and thus, controversy. Period. And it takes time to learn how to make that call, so there will always be calls that get "kicked." Especially given how there are now 3 refs. And another important element is that it often happens so fast that you don't always get a complete look at it. And if it's any consolation, the charge call on Triche vs. OSU is routinely shown in vids at reffing clinics. I'll let you decide how and why it's used ...

 

[Dave85]

That's never going to happen, Dave. Never. You gotta get over that. Block/charge is a judgment call, just like any other foul call, so there will always be interpretation and thus, controversy. Period. And it takes time to learn how to make that call, so there will always be calls that get "kicked." Especially given how there are now 3 refs. And another important element is that it often happens so fast that you don't always get a complete look at it. And if it's any consolation, the charge call on Triche vs. OSU is routinely shown in vids at reffing clinics. I'll let you decide how and why it's used ...

I think if an effort is made by the NCAA we can see some improvements. They need video training or something for the referees so the judgment part is reduced to a minimum. There needs to be more consistency. But this would mean the NCAA would have to do some actual work for change.

 

[longtimefan]

That's never going to happen, Dave. Never. You gotta get over that. Block/charge is a judgment call, just like any other foul call, so there will always be interpretation and thus, controversy. Period. And it takes time to learn how to make that call, so there will always be calls that get "kicked." Especially given how there are now 3 refs. And another important element is that it often happens so fast that you don't always get a complete look at it. And if it's any consolation, the charge call on Triche vs. OSU is routinely shown in vids at reffing clinics. I'll let you decide how and why it's used ...

I assume it's used to demonstrate how not to make the proper call.

 

[upperdeck]

if you inbounds from the sideline let them use the full court. if you inbounds from under the offensive basket let them use just that end of the court.

 

[SBU72]

That's never going to happen, Dave. Never. You gotta get over that. Block/charge is a judgment call, just like any other foul call, so there will always be interpretation and thus, controversy. Period. And it takes time to learn how to make that call, so there will always be calls that get "kicked." Especially given how there are now 3 refs. And another important element is that it often happens so fast that you don't always get a complete look at it. And if it's any consolation, the charge call on Triche vs. OSU is routinely shown in vids at reffing clinics. I'll let you decide how and why it's used ...

First of all I like that flops will no be deemed a foul, maybe that will reduce SOME of the charge/block controversy. I do wish that networks stop freeze framing microseconds if guys establish position. If it looked good enough to be called one way or the other, let it go! If an announcer wants to say a kid was still moving, let him say what part of the kid was moving if the kid has his feet set. with the feet set, can he move his hips? his head? his arms?

 

[Flacusian]

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