Wow! just wow. It's hard to believe

[Flacusian]

I knew we would be a bit shaky potatoes out of the gate... but as the sample size grows with each passing game the vulnerability of this team in nearly every aspect is becoming increasingly apparent.

I also believed that we would be on an upward curve as the parts assimilated into a cohesive team and that we had some talented young guys who hadn't played much last year that would step into the shoes which needed to be filled.

As others have pointed out tonight, some things can be said with increasing certainty.

1. This team is more offensively challenged than any in quite some time.
2. Cooney is moving more toward "not a good shooter" than "streaky shooter"
3. Kaleb Joseph will need quite a bit of time to adapt to the college game and could he please get his arms and hands up on defense?
4. Rak is going to get called for about 125 fouls before the season is over.
5. DC2 is not walking out on the court anytime soon
6. JB has shown some facial expressions that reflect a state of utter disbelief
7. Barring some miracle worked by JB and the staff, it's gonna get ugly once conference play starts.
8. Silent G hasn't completely transformed his game and improved by quantum leaps.
9. CM and Rak are the only 2 prime time players we have on the team.
10. I will continue to root for this bunch... they are going to need all the support they can get. Teams do have off years and I'm grateful for the program being as great as it is. I'll also hold on to hope that they can become a good team before the year is over. Jimmy B has done great things with less talent than this more than once.

11. I'm a little pissed at Ennis and Grant for bailing out like kids after a birthday party.

 

[GardenOrange]

love #11

 

[pearl31]

and yet a horrible, miserable, pathetic team like that just beat a probable tourney team on a neutral court.
Oh Lord

 

[Orange2389]

hopefully henry steps it up @ nova and michigan

 

[AZOrange]

As much as I hate to say it: we stink.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I knew we would be a bit shaky potatoes out of the gate... but as the sample size grows with each passing game the vulnerability of this team in nearly every aspect is becoming increasingly apparent.

I also believed that we would be on an upward curve as the parts assimilated into a cohesive team and that we had some talented young guys who hadn't played much last year that would step into the shoes which needed to be filled.

As others have pointed out tonight, some things can be said with increasing certainty.

1. This team is more offensively challenged than any in quite some time.
2. Cooney is moving more toward "not a good shooter" than "streaky shooter"
3. Kaleb Joseph will need quite a bit of time to adapt to the college game and could he please get his arms and hands up on defense?
4. Rak is going to get called for about 125 fouls before the season is over.
5. DC2 is not walking out on the court anytime soon
6. JB has shown some facial expressions that reflect a state of utter disbelief
7. Barring some miracle worked by JB and the staff, it's gonna get ugly once conference play starts.
8. Silent G hasn't completely transformed his game and improved by quantum leaps.
9. CM and Rak are the only 2 prime time players we have on the team.
10. I will continue to root for this bunch... they are going to need all the support they can get. Teams do have off years and I'm grateful for the program being as great as it is. I'll also hold on to hope that they can become a good team before the year is over. Jimmy B has done great things with less talent than this more than once.

11. I'm a little pissed at Ennis and Grant for bailing out like kids after a birthday party.

 

[Trueblue25]

Oh please.

JB didn't make it in the HOF for nothing.

I have faith in our coaches. The season is young, the team is young. Let them figure some things out. Michigan and Nova will be important games for us, win or lose.

 

[CaptainJ]

I'm in a haze as to how I should feel at the moment. Sometimes I need to look at my WWMD(What would Mantonio do" bracelet for guidance. Nothing so far.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

What were people expecting? There is all of this faux shock and anger. Sit back and enjoy the team as it grows into something that works. It's not going to all come at once, it will come in fits and starts. There will be a lot of "ugh" moments, and plenty of "ugh" games. That California game will not be the last. This team is offensively challenged. We have a freshman point guard, shooting guards that can't shoot, and limited forwards behind McCullough.

These players have skill, they have talent. It's going to take a lot of game action to realize that skill and talent. It may not even happen this year for all of them. This is a growing year, and if we make the tournament -- awesome.

I just hate coming to this board and listening to people gripe about how awful this team is. Compared to the last six years? Yes, it is awful. Those teams (from 2008-2009) were a combined 177-42. In the history of this school, there has NEVER been a stretch like that. There had to be a down point at some time. People need to stop bitching, and start recalibrating expectations. This team is not Elite 8, Final Four, Sweet 16 good. They may be a tourney team. Anything beyond that will be wonderful.

This team isn't nearly as awful as people's out of whack expectations for them.

 

[pearl31]

What were people expecting? There is all of this faux shock and anger. Sit back and enjoy the team as it grows into something that works. It's not going to all come at once, it will come in fits and starts. There will be a lot of "ugh" moments, and plenty of "ugh" games. That California game will not be the last. This team is offensively challenged. We have a freshman point guard, shooting guards that can't shoot, and limited forwards behind McCullough.

These players have skill, they have talent. It's going to take a lot of game action to realize that skill and talent. It may not even happen this year for all of them. This is a growing year, and if we make the tournament -- awesome.

I just hate coming to this board and listening to people gripe about how awful this team is. Compared to the last six years? Yes, it is awful. Those teams (from 2008-2009) were a combined 177-42. In the history of this school, there has NEVER been a stretch like that. There had to be a down point at some time. People need to stop bitching, and start recalibrating expectations. This team is not Elite 8, Final Four, Sweet 16 good. They may be a tourney team. Anything beyond that will be wonderful.

This team isn't nearly as awful as people's out of whack expectations for them.

Thank you.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I don't know what expectations were.

As for cooney, since about a third of the way through last year Ive accepted who he is.

The problem, and why he seems to take a lot of heat, is that because we have so few shooters, his lack of production becomes more glaring for a position called "shooting" guard.

 

[moqui]

it astounds me that people look at a team where 6 of the 9 scholarship players are essentially first year players, and one of the upperclassmen is being used as a offensive player for the first time in his entire career (including high school) . . . and act as if it is a finished product before Thanksgiving!

or maybe it's not so astounding, given the crowd.

 

[Cuse'91]

What were people expecting? There is all of this faux shock and anger. Sit back and enjoy the team as it grows into something that works. It's not going to all come at once, it will come in fits and starts. There will be a lot of "ugh" moments, and plenty of "ugh" games. That California game will not be the last. This team is offensively challenged. We have a freshman point guard, shooting guards that can't shoot, and limited forwards behind McCullough.

These players have skill, they have talent. It's going to take a lot of game action to realize that skill and talent. It may not even happen this year for all of them. This is a growing year, and if we make the tournament -- awesome.

I just hate coming to this board and listening to people gripe about how awful this team is. Compared to the last six years? Yes, it is awful. Those teams (from 2008-2009) were a combined 177-42. In the history of this school, there has NEVER been a stretch like that. There had to be a down point at some time. People need to stop bitching, and start recalibrating expectations. This team is not Elite 8, Final Four, Sweet 16 good. They may be a tourney team. Anything beyond that will be wonderful.

This team isn't nearly as awful as people's out of whack expectations for them.

Team led by a 4th year senior and 2 4th year juniors, a 5 star freshman, and 4 players in their 2nd year in the program that were all top 100 level talents? We have done more with a lot less.
Season is still young, but not off to a promising start.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Team led by a 4th year senior and 2 4th year juniors, a 5 star freshman, and 4 players in their 2nd year in the program that were all top 100 level talents? We have done more with a lot less.
Season is still young, but not off to a promising start.

Let's play that game:

1) A freshman point guard that is not named Tyler Ennis. Go back and look at Jason Hart, a longtime NBA player as a four star freshman point guard. Dude was awful. Didn't look like he knew how to dribble at points.

2) A fifth year senior that has split time his entire career, and has never learned not to foul. Someone who has never averaged double digit points in his career is being called on to do just that this year. What other senior player with similar stats his first three years has made that leap at Syracuse? I'd have to guess not very many.

3) My three sons. For some reason everyone is expecting all of these guys to make a leap. A leap from what? They were non existent last year. Never played. If they all averaged around 3-5 points this years, and added on a couple of assists and rebounds, that WOULD BE a leap. They're not going to be 10-12 point scorers, and beyond that, they're not going to be consistent. No game action in year one means they are essentially freshman on the court. They may be sophomores in practice, but they're freshman in game experience.

4) Gbinije is limited, and always will be. He is not a guy who is going to often strap this team to his back. His upside is senior year Kueth Duany.

5) Trevor needs to get out of his own head. You can see the wheels churning out there for him. Same problem as Gerry as well. Without other threats from deep, teams can tilt the defense his way constantly, making it next to impossible to get a clear shot. He has lost confidence because of that. So now he's trying to distribute and drive more, something he hasn't done much of in his career.

Do you see where I'm going with this? We're asking a LOT of guys to do things that they've never done before. There will be a lot of failing along the way. Hopefully those failures will lead to learning and then success down the road. I think it will.

People always think our players should all just come in or start and be great, near flawless. They should know their role immediately, and understand everything instantly. Finished products if you will. That's just not the way it is. A huge leap is rare, it doesn't happen often. And when it does happen (especially the sophomore leap) it's usually because that player played a lot of time their freshman year based on necessity. Our sophomores didn't need to last year, and we're seeing the growing pains this year.

 

[DrysdaleBlue]

This team is no where near a finished product. Yes we are not as good or polished as teams in the recent past. I just hope that we can break out of this funk of nonexistent offense and no fast break points. Cuse teams of the past ran and punished teams in transition.

The parts are there, they are just young and unsure of themselves and their roles. Personally, its a bit refreshing to (hopefully) see a young cuse team get better as the season progresses and not peak in December.

 

[Cuse'91]

Let's play that game:

1) A freshman point guard that is not named Tyler Ennis. Go back and look at Jason Hart, a longtime NBA player as a four star freshman point guard. Dude was awful. Didn't look like he knew how to dribble at points.

2) A fifth year senior that has split time his entire career, and has never learned not to foul. Someone who has never averaged double digit points in his career is being called on to do just that this year. What other senior player with similar stats his first three years has made that leap at Syracuse? I'd have to guess not very many.

3) My three sons. For some reason everyone is expecting all of these guys to make a leap. A leap from what? They were non existent last year. Never played. If they all averaged around 3-5 points this years, and added on a couple of assists and rebounds, that WOULD BE a leap. They're not going to be 10-12 point scorers, and beyond that, they're not going to be consistent. No game action in year one means they are essentially freshman on the court. They may be sophomores in practice, but they're freshman in game experience.

4) Gbinije is limited, and always will be. He is not a guy who is going to often strap this team to his back. His upside is senior year Kueth Duany.

5) Trevor needs to get out of his own head. You can see the wheels churning out there for him. Same problem as Gerry as well. Without other threats from deep, teams can tilt the defense his way constantly, making it next to impossible to get a clear shot. He has lost confidence because of that. So now he's trying to distribute and drive more, something he hasn't done much of in his career.

Do you see where I'm going with this? We're asking a LOT of guys to do things that they've never done before. There will be a lot of failing along the way. Hopefully those failures will lead to learning and then success down the road. I think it will.

People always think our players should all just come in or start and be great, near flawless. They should know their role immediately, and understand everything instantly. Finished products if you will. That's just not the way it is. A huge leap is rare, it doesn't happen often. And when it does happen (especially the sophomore leap) it's usually because that player played a lot of time their freshman year based on necessity. Our sophomores didn't need to last year, and we're seeing the growing pains this year.

Yes, I ask a lot... A free college education for playing basketball??? That's a pretty special gift; if it were the business sector, jobs would be in jeopardy. There are a lot of programs across the country that are performing better with supposed inferior talent...

 

[DrysdaleBlue]

and who knows, maybe one of our young studs will stick around for a year or two...

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Yes, I ask a lot... A free college education for playing basketball??? That's a pretty special gift; if it were the business sector, jobs would be in jeopardy. There are a lot of programs across the country that are performing better with supposed inferior talent...

Just stop. You're sounding silly now. Yes, you're asking too much. How do I know that? LOOK AT THE PRODUCT ON THE COURT. They are not a finished product, and Boeheim has said that consistently from the beginning of the season. I know that they play simply to serve as your enjoyment, but you've gotta take a step back and look at what they are right now.

I pretty much just pointed out the fallacy in each of your arguments and you come back with "WAH WAH WAH! They should be good because I SAY SO!" Okay, sorry for that sounding personal, it's really not. If this were the NBA and we had a new point guard, new small forward, and new power forward on our team, ya know what? I would adjust my expectations because there's a good chance that team is going to take some time to gel. It's just the way it is. People bitching and moaning about it doesn't change that one irrefutable fact. Young teams in experience will have growing pains. It's a fact of life.

Now please come back with the Kentucky argument so I can shoot that down as well.

 

[Francis03]

As much as I hate to say it: we stink.

After a 33pt win? Not saying the team is great or anything at this point because we're flawed all over the place but c'mon now. Stink is Rutgers getting spanked at home by St. Peter's without it's best player.

 

[CaptainJ]

After a 33pt win? Not saying the team is great or anything at this point because we're flawed all over the place but c'mon now. Stink is Rutgers getting spanked at home by St. Peter's without it's best player.

I agree completely. I'm guessing a lot of folks are talking in terms relative to our recent expectations. It reminds me of part of the song "In The Flesh" off of Pink Floyd's The Wall. The new/imposter/transformed Pink gives the fans(or parts of himself he doesn't like) a revelation:

I've got some bad news for you sunshine,
Pink isn't well, he stayed back at the hotel
And they sent us along as a surrogate band
We're gonna find out where you fans really stand.

This is the movie version, aptly with the actor Bob Geldoff actually singing the vocals. I think it is somewhat fitting of this thread:

 

[hoopsupstate]

The problem with Cooney is that our point guard does nothing to find him good shots. The play at the end of the half is evidence of that. Twice last night he had Cooney WIDE open and he took jump shots. His job is to get his teammates involved. He has no clue how to do this. Cooney took two bad threes in the first half last night because he feels the ball will never come back to him. SU took 12 threes last night and the two they made were probably the only two they should have taken. They are taking bad threes when they don't have good looks or too early In the possession. Silent G's two corner threes last night were great examples of lousy shots. They get very few open threes in the flow of the offense. When you're not great shooters to begin with, it only compounds the issue. Joseph has to figure this out because at the moment he has no clue what a point guards role is on a team.

 

[orangefan13]

Nobody said we had to win pretty. Just win. :noidea:

Our defense is pretty good, Not great but pretty good minus our backup center.
And we were without tyler roberson tonight, which probably messed with the lineups some. If BJ came off the bench instead of starting he would have had a few buckets, and a few nice passes to mcCullough as a 6th man today instead.

Offense needs alot of work, the three obvious ones, a go to backourt threat, point guard needs to round out, and we need better outside shooting.

On rak and his fouls they are alittle rediculous at times, The post up foul looked like a bs call to me.I didn't like McCulloughs offensive foul to start the game either. It was a flop when he was just pivoting with the guy behind him, he didn't lower the sholder bump or anything.

As for winnin by 3 against iowa, we were up 15, they shot awfull. They came back because our guards couldn't make a positive moment off the drive the last 8 minutes for a backcourt that can't shoot to good yet. Backcourt needs alot of work. As does breaking a press. I am all for running up a 20 point lead and then letting everyone but mccullough and rak take all the shots one game against a cupcake early on. That could be good for confidence, and teach the other kids they can't depend on rak and mccullough to lead every game.

 

[realorange]

The whining is ridiculous! Almost everyone that played last night showed progress from last year. Christmas is starting to show he can be an offensive plus and his blocks were well timed. Yes, he still needs to stop the silly fouls.
Cooney is not hitting threes but had some nice strong drives to the basket. Something he didn't do last year. BJ played well for his first start. Didn't take too many bad shots, had a couple nice assists and played decent defense. Joseph is still learning but certainly didn't stink up the place. CMc is working towards being our stud.
BJ, CMc and Joseph are doing their thing for the first time. What more did you expect from them? As someone else said, we have a team that will improve and will be fun to watch doing it unless you are someone expecting a top ten team.
Relax and roll with the ups and downs of a group of players who just may show you something special by the time we get to March.

 

[AZOrange]

After a 33pt win? Not saying the team is great or anything at this point because we're flawed all over the place but c'mon now. Stink is Rutgers getting spanked at home by St. Peter's without it's best player.

Right now...relatively speaking. We have room to improve but there seem to be major flaws in the roster. The bench seems completely overwhelmed, cooney is a shell, g is still lost, etc. Loyola was horrible. It was hard not to imagine last night, Duke just taking us apart. I hope I'm wrong. Haven't felt this unsure of a team in a decade.

 

[bballbeadle]

I knew we would be a bit shaky potatoes out of the gate... but as the sample size grows with each passing game the vulnerability of this team in nearly every aspect is becoming increasingly apparent.

I also believed that we would be on an upward curve as the parts assimilated into a cohesive team and that we had some talented young guys who hadn't played much last year that would step into the shoes which needed to be filled.

As others have pointed out tonight, some things can be said with increasing certainty.

1. This team is more offensively challenged than any in quite some time.
2. Cooney is moving more toward "not a good shooter" than "streaky shooter"
3. Kaleb Joseph will need quite a bit of time to adapt to the college game and could he please get his arms and hands up on defense?
4. Rak is going to get called for about 125 fouls before the season is over.
5. DC2 is not walking out on the court anytime soon
6. JB has shown some facial expressions that reflect a state of utter disbelief
7. Barring some miracle worked by JB and the staff, it's gonna get ugly once conference play starts.
8. Silent G hasn't completely transformed his game and improved by quantum leaps.
9. CM and Rak are the only 2 prime time players we have on the team.
10. I will continue to root for this bunch... they are going to need all the support they can get. Teams do have off years and I'm grateful for the program being as great as it is. I'll also hold on to hope that they can become a good team before the year is over. Jimmy B has done great things with less talent than this more than once.

11. I'm a little pissed at Ennis and Grant for bailing out like kids after a birthday party.

I am going to defend Flacusian. He has a right to post his observations and he didn't do it in a whiny way. He is not whining; he is stating his concerns. This is what the board is for.

We are all "sophisticated" fans here, emphasis on FANS. This year is going to test our mettle as fans. It is sure testing mine. It is hard to watch the struggle. We all know that without struggle our team will not develop. But it is one thing to "know" something, and another to watch it.

Last night there was no energy in the building. The students, band and cheerleaders were gone. Loyola's play was cringe-inducing. They were so bad I began to wonder if it was really worthwhile for our inexperienced guys to play such a team. People began to applaud when Loyola made some points. I didn't want our team to slaughter them, but after a while I realized I shouldn't worry about it.

Early in the game someone above me booed Cooney. I swear to the Cosmos, if that guy had done it one more time, I would have found him and .. and... I don' know, shamed him? I might have made a little scene! WE DON'T BOO OUR PLAYERS! (Or our posters. Although we can disagree with them.)

Okay, I'm done.