Zone Exclusivity

[longislandcuse]

Moving forward, when we aren't playing in a banned year with a depleted roster... We need a secondary defense. Unless we only field teams like the F4 MCW-Triche-Southerland-Rak team, we need a secondary M2M or Press (not just a desperation end of game press).

Zone will still be our staple but this isn't the Big East where we play a bunch of physical teams with elite athletes. This is the ACC with better players, better coaches and BETTER SHOOTERS. We can't let inferior teams have the ability to hang with us (NCAA Tournament teams) or hot shooting cellar dwellers (Mediocre-Bad ACC teams) when we're clearly the more talented/athletic team. Upsets will happen but we can't have no plan B.

The reason why we open ourselves up to this is because of zone exclusivity. Unless we have a freakishly long team, we are extremely vulnerable to the hot shooting bad ACC team or the clock abusing NCAA Tourney upset special.

It's too late to change it up for this current team but I'd really like for us to be a little more creative moving forward. I'm literally talking about a possession of M2M here, a possession of press there just to take teams out of rhythm or speed up the game.

 

[iommi]

It's possible our next coach may mix in some man to man. Until then, it's just not going to happen.

 

[GardenOrange]

Moving forward, when we aren't playing in a banned year with a depleted roster... We need a secondary defense. Unless we only field teams like the F4 MCW-Triche-Southerland-Rak team, we need a secondary M2M or Press (not just a desperation end of game press).

Zone will still be our staple but this isn't the Big East where we play a bunch of physical teams with elite athletes. This is the ACC with better players, better coaches and BETTER SHOOTERS. We can't let inferior teams have the ability to hang with us (NCAA Tournament teams) or hot shooting cellar dwellers (Mediocre-Bad ACC teams) when we're clearly the more talented/athletic team. Upsets will happen but we can't have no plan B.

The reason why we open ourselves up to this is because of zone exclusivity. Unless we have a freakishly long team, we are extremely vulnerable to the hot shooting bad ACC team or the clock abusing NCAA Tourney upset special.

It's too late to change it up for this current team but I'd really like for us to be a little more creative moving forward. I'm literally talking about a possession of M2M here, a possession of press there just to take teams out of rhythm or speed up the game.

Each year there seems to be more and more good long range shooters. Guys shoot 25 footers like it's nothing nowadays. As that trend continues, the 2-3 becomes more vulnerable.

 

[Syracuse44]

Because, once again..nobody ever hits long 3's against man defense...

 

[KingOnuaku]

Each year there seems to be more and more good long range shooters. Guys shoot 25 footers like it's nothing nowadays. As that trend continues, the 2-3 becomes more vulnerable.

This has been said so many times --look at how teams shoot overall from 3pt range against us. The zone is amazing and unfortunately sometimes falls victim to hot shooting teams (as do good man-to-man teams). Zone all day everyday.

 

[longislandcuse]

Because, once again..nobody ever hits long 3's against man defense...

Clearly they do but I'm not advocating playing strictly m2m. I want some kind of diversity so when Johnny Scrubs goes off we can cool him down or when some random team in the tournament gets a 4 point lead with ten minutes left and runs 35 seconds off the clock every time down we have another option.

 

[NineOneSeven]

It's silly

This has been said so many times --look at how teams shoot overall from 3pt range against us. The zone is amazing and unfortunately sometimes falls victim to hot shooting teams (as do good man-to-man teams). Zone all day everyday.

The zone isn't amazing this year.

And not shocking, we aren't amazing this year.

 

[Knicks411]

Fwiw, we rank higher in 3 point defense than 2 point defense this year.
I would definitely love to see attempts to extend the defense to keep teams from slowing the game down. Vermont will forever haunt me

 

[orangecuse]

Because, once again..nobody ever hits long 3's against man defense...

Well, there's a good reason why no one else but us plays it exclusively. I've been watching UVA tonight against L'ville and they can't even get a good luck. UVA's d is relentless...too many times (especially this year) the opponent shooters are wide open. At this level, you're just rolling the dice, hoping and praying that they miss. It's painful, along with watching another no name bench guy go off for another career night against us...

 

[jec1521]

I love our zone. We should play it 99% of the time. I do agree though that if a team is slicing us up, JB should be open to changing it up at least for a couple of possessions, just to throw the opponent out of sync a bit.

 

[Brooky03]

a) We always have freakishly long teams relative to most other college teams

b) Just like m2m teams and teams that switch it up, we suck if our defenders suck... no matter what D we're in. 'Surprising' the offense by switching defenses might catch them off guard for a possession or maybe two. In the case of this team, it's not so much an issue of talent on D (Joseph is pretty bad though), it's an issue of depth and stamina. The zone has gotten beat because we can't play aggressively. Chasing guys around picks in m2m wouldn't fix that.

c) Who on this team is a poor defender in the zone that would be better in m2m? Serious question, because I can't think of any. m2m would pull Rak out of the paint which is really bad (even with his foul conscious defense). Joseph would get abused. Cooney and G would hold their own. Patterson and Roberson would probably be fine. BJ would go from 2 to 0 minutes of playing time.

d) It's funny how playing only zone hasn't been an issue for the last 5 seasons. And if it has been an issue at any point, it's only a problem when we lose, not when we use it to beat top 25 teams (which we do more often than losing to them).

e) We play a matchup zone. It's not an exaggeration to say we're actually playing m2m 30% of the time.

f) Pressing would be nice. Can't do it when you only have 6 players available.

 

[jgeorge322]

Were getting pulverized by 3 pters last seven games

9-25
8-20
10-29
10-29
9-16
9-18
7-22

Pitt has worst % at .318. Any time that we want to start guarding the 3 pt line would be great.

Jb should know theres a difference between a contested 3 and an open 3 that a guy can step into.

 

[Brooky03]

Were getting pulverized by 3 pters last seven games

9-25
8-20
10-29
10-29
9-16
9-18
7-22

Pitt has worst % at .318. Any time that we want to start guarding the 3 pt line would be great.

Jb should know theres a difference between a contested 3 and an open 3 that a guy can step into.

No legs. We don't get out on shooters early because we're trying to save energy. We don't get out on them late because we have no energy.

btw, is it at all possible to see how teams are shooting from deep with Joseph in the game vs. Patterson?

 

[doc05]

We don't have the same size in the zone that we usually do.

 

[jec1521]

We don't have the same size in the zone that we usually do.

Who says? Just because we dont have MCW at the top doesn't mean we don't have a long and tall lineup for our 2-3.

Our starting 5 is:

6-3
6-4
6-7
6-8
6-9

Seems like plenty of size to me. Oh, and that is not even including a 6-10 McCullough

 

[HOFCeluck]

We've had games where the zone gets torched, we switch to man and win.

Good forbid we ever lose to some eight seed because we played 40 minutes of zone on some future CPA who goes 6-8 from three. I know some here would consider something like that a fait accompli. I don't but that.

 

[SBU72]

Because, once again..nobody ever hits long 3's against man defense...

Or complains about teams that use m-2-m exclusively.

 

[jgeorge322]

No legs. We don't get out on shooters early because we're trying to save energy. We don't get out on them late because we have no energy.

btw, is it at all possible to see how teams are shooting from deep with Joseph in the game vs. Patterson?

I tend to think its energy conservation. Id like to see us use the aggressive trap defense when we have say a 6 pt lead and try to spurt a run to get up 10 then call TO for rest.

 

[longislandcuse]

Or complains about teams that use m-2-m exclusively.

Even traditional m2m teams like Duke have adopted zone for spurts. We can't do the same and flip to m2m if a player(s) gets hot or a LVille press/fall back into zone so they only have 20 seconds to poke and prod and not 35 seconds of bla bla bla bla...

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I believe coach has said on several occasions that they simply cant practice enough man to make it playable. The practice time devoted to man would simply result in a crappy man defense and a less effective zone.

This sounds logical however all these kids have been playing man to man defense their entire lives before they come to Syracuse. Its fairly straightforward. Play the guy who has you. Help defense, stop ball, set traps in certain areas of the court, rules for when to switch or go through on picks.

How does Louisville do it? They generally dont have better players or talent than we do.

People have to realize, the ZONE (TM) is Boeheim's legacy. Its his baby. It's what he's known for. It's sort of what Syracuse is known for. We used to be known as that team that ran up and down the court and would alley oops dunk in the first five seconds of a game (see Duke ACC /big east challenge).
Now we are know for the zone. I just think when something becomes your legacy like that, you are going to invent reasons to justify relying on it exclusively.

Or, as Bill Burr would say "maybe im just full of ...I dont really know..."

 

[HOFCeluck]

Or complains about teams that use m-2-m exclusively.

If we were an exclusive m2m team, I would question why we didn't mix in some zone, or junk defense etc...

I'm not "anti zone," I'm "anti -one defense exclusively."

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Because, once again..nobody ever hits long 3's against man defense...

Much much much much easier doing that against a zone, especially guys with that skillset... I have been begging boeheim to change some things up the past ten years... He never will tho as long as he is the head coach... Not even worth putting the effort in. He should absolutely press some more often. If he has 8-9 capable guys, unlike this year where he has 3 maybe 4, he should sprinkle it in there off a free throw or just a dead ball

 

[orangecuse]

I believe coach has said on several occasions that they simply cant practice enough man to make it playable. The practice time devoted to man would simply result in a crappy man defense and a less effective zone.

This sounds logical however all these kids have been playing man to man defense their entire lives before they come to Syracuse. Its fairly straightforward. Play the guy who has you. Help defense, stop ball, set traps in certain areas of the court, rules for when to switch or go through on picks.

How does Louisville do it? They generally dont have better players or talent than we do.

People have to realize, the ZONE (TM) is Boeheim's legacy. Its his baby. It's what he's known for. It's sort of what Syracuse is known for. We used to be known as that team that ran up and down the court and would alley oops dunk in the first five seconds of a game (see Duke ACC /big east challenge).
Now we are know for the zone. I just think when something becomes your legacy like that, you are going to invent reasons to justify relying on it exclusively.

Or, as Bill Burr would say "maybe im just full of . . . . ...I dont really know..."

Indeed, our guys could easily play man due to the reasons you mention. Defense, a large part of it, is also mindset, effort and determination. Another factor as to why JB is so stubborn in not playing any man is due to the fact that he only likes to play 6-7 guys...period! Even if we had a bench, history tells us his bench doesn't get any time of significance, especially once league play or tourney play rolls around. JB's comfort zone is playing 6-7 guys, that being the case, also plays into his poo poo reasoning in why they don't play man to man. Really, at this level, and the quality of our program/athletes, etc., it's stunning that his spin as to why we don't play man gets any credibility.

I'm a huge JB fan and have always been. His success, what he has done for SU and its program, etc., speaks for itself, but you'll never convince me that we shouldn't play any man when the situation appears to warrant it. I'm fine with the zone being our primary D, but exclusive under any and all circumstances is just JB being his stubborn self.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I feel like any other elite coach, if they're defense was getting torched by a d2 team, would work on that defense to make it better.

I guess I just don't get that as a legit pretense to can M2M for all time.

 

[longislandcuse]

Indeed, our guys could easily play man due to the reasons you mention. Defense, a large part of it, is also mindset, effort and determination. Another factor as to why JB is so stubborn in not playing any man is due to the fact that he only likes to play 6-7 guys...period! Even if we had a bench, history tells us his bench doesn't get any time of significance, especially once league play or tourney play rolls around. JB's comfort zone is playing 6-7 guys, that being the case, also plays into his poo poo reasoning in why they don't play man to man. Really, at this level, and the quality of our program/athletes, etc., it's stunning that his spin as to why we don't play man gets any credibility.

I'm a huge JB fan and have always been. His success, what he has done for SU and its program, etc., speaks for itself, but you'll never convince me that we shouldn't play any man when the situation appears to warrant it. I'm fine with the zone being our primary D, but exclusive under any and all circumstances is just JB being his stubborn self.

I mean look at last year in the tournament. People want to say it wasn't the zone, we just couldn't make shots.. That's who we were last year, all season we couldn't make shots. So what did we do? Sat back in the zone and let the opposing team run 35 seconds off the clock every single time. They shortened the game knowing it would make us press on offense and instead of trying something different we just sat back in our staple zone and hoped they missed. Sometimes you have to force the issue when what you're doing isnt working.