1980: "America's Dismal Turning Point"

Eric15

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#1
A lot of quality of life metrics in America, e.g. life expectancy, income inequality, financial leverage, household debt relative to income, political polarization, etc. took a turn for the worse in 1980. Obviously there are different theories why, but it's almost certainly not a pure coincidence.

Opinion | America’s Dismal Turning Point

"And surely most people would agree that soaring medical costs, rising inequality, financial crises, regional decline, etc., are bad things; so you might think that all of this would suggest to everyone that something was wrong with the newly dominant ideology. But here’s the thing: conservatives don’t see it that way. Not only do they continue to regard Reagan as America’s savior; they haven’t changed their ideas, or indeed come up with any significantly new ideas, for the past 35 years."
 
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#2
A lot of quality of life metrics in America, e.g. life expectancy, income inequality, financial leverage, household debt relative to income, political polarization, etc. took a turn for the worse in 1980. Obviously there are different theories why, but it's almost certainly not a pure coincidence.

Opinion | America’s Dismal Turning Point

"And surely most people would agree that soaring medical costs, rising inequality, financial crises, regional decline, etc., are bad things; so you might think that all of this would suggest to everyone that something was wrong with the newly dominant ideology. But here’s the thing: conservatives don’t see it that way. Not only do they continue to regard Reagan as America’s savior; they haven’t changed their ideas, or indeed come up with any significantly new ideas, for the past 35 years."
Wow Why bring that narrative here? I get enough of this everyday outside the board
 
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#6
Maybe it just is what it is.

Might be something people need to accept.

I don’t think Republicans have the answer but I also don’t think that Democrats do either, and I certainly don’t want to go down the Bernie Sanders road (even though it makes perfect sense in a Utopian world...problem is, we’re far from that).

Some things are just out of our control. We, just like all major players in this world, are in the full throws of globalization and the tech age. Perhaps it’s just bigger than us.
 

Eric15

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#7
Maybe it just is what it is.

Might be something people need to accept.

I don’t think Republicans have the answer but I also don’t think that Democrats do either, and I certainly don’t want to go down the Bernie Sanders road (even though it makes perfect sense in a Utopian world...problem is, we’re far from that).

Some things are just out of our control. We, just like all major players in this world, are in the full throws of globalization and the tech age. Perhaps it’s just bigger than us.
LI not trying to be mean/rude, but this post is intellectually lazy. We can’t improve the future if we aren’t analytical about the past.
 
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Fly Rodder

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#8
Maybe it just is what it is.

Might be something people need to accept.
We don't know why it's happening here or what we can do about it says only country where it is happening ...

This isn't just about life expectancy, but the US poltiical system took a hard turn right in 1980 and the results are pretty apparent in most things. Taxes are down and wealth inequality is up. Spending defense is way up and deficits/debt are way up. Lower 80% wealth is stagnant or down. Healthcare is more expensive yet, generally, less effective based on life expectancy at birth (there was an interesting story on this the other day about how Reagan stopped enforcing the Sherman Act with regards to healthcare and the result is that prices have gone up, profits way up, and life expectancy has gone down).

People can look at the results analytically or make up stories about how its the fault of hippies, liberals, heavy metal, atheists, or Jews because they like lattes and listening to NPR. But these are the results (in many instances they were the goals) of the policies pursued and implemented. To think otherwise is to ignore the issue. Politics have consequences that can be measured.
 

ebucklewis

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#9
Krugman hates Reagan so much that he can write an article essentially about wealth inequality and he doesn't use the words "computer" or "globalization" once.
 

Fly Rodder

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#10
Krugman hates Reagan so much that he can write an article essentially about wealth inequality and he doesn't use the words "computer" or "globalization" once.
Computers and globalization are variables. They don't direct policy. Choices were made by the politicians to not consider the effects of downsizing the labor force and replacing lower middle class jobs which had pensions and unions with low-end service industry and retail jobs. Well, they did, but the choices that they made were to distribute the wealth to a very small percentage of people.
 

Quazzum69

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#11
Maybe it just is what it is.

Might be something people need to accept.

I don’t think Republicans have the answer but I also don’t think that Democrats do either, and I certainly don’t want to go down the Bernie Sanders road (even though it makes perfect sense in a Utopian world...problem is, we’re far from that).

Some things are just out of our control. We, just like all major players in this world, are in the full throws of globalization and the tech age. Perhaps it’s just bigger than us.
The answer is 'take from the rich and give to the poor,' i.e. the robin hood solution.

There is more than enough resources on earth for 7 billion people to have clean water, food, etc. and live comfortably. It comes down to a few tens of thousands of people at the top being cruel and not wanting to share.

Just look at our own country: There are more empty houses than homeless people. More food thrown into a hole in the ground than all the hungry children could eat. We know what the problem is and how to fix it. The people at top just don't want to.

Some things are even more efficient and save money but are not done out of spite.
 

Cusefan0307

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#13
Well the rich have been stealing from the poor and middle class since 1980 so this isn't a surprise.
 
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#14
The answer is 'take from the rich and give to the poor,' i.e. the robin hood solution.

There is more than enough resources on earth for 7 billion people to have clean water, food, etc. and live comfortably. It comes down to a few tens of thousands of people at the top being cruel and not wanting to share.

Just look at our own country: There are more empty houses than homeless people. More food thrown into a hole in the ground than all the hungry children could eat. We know what the problem is and how to fix it. The people at top just don't want to.

Some things are even more efficient and save money but are not done out of spite.
I actually 100% agree with this.
 
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#15
LI not trying to be mean/rude, but this post is intellectually lazy. We can’t improve the future if we aren’t analytical about the past.
It’s fine to be analytical of the past but I’m of the mind that we, as a human race, may have hit our high water mark. Greed and power has only become more exascerbated and consolidated through globalization and technology...unless we have a Robin Hood revolt and “the haves” are ok living as a metaphorical commune for the betterment of the “have nots”, this is where we’re at. We know from history, that they are not ok with that.
 
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orangehomer

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#16
It’s fine to be analytical of the past but I’m of the mind that we, as a human race, may have hit our high water mark. Greed and power has only become more exascerbated and consolidated through globalization and technology...unless we have a Robin Hood revolt and “the haves” are ok living as a universal commune for the betterment of the “have nots”, this will only get worse.
somehow you have outdone yourself, and made a post that is even more intellectually lazy than the one another poster called you out on.
 

orangehomer

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#20
Uh, ok... Regardless of party, I think it will get worse. The discussion is from Reagan-Present. We have had 16 years of Clinton/Obama in that time period. This isn’t solely a Trump issue.
total nonsense. which party wants higher minimum wage? which party wants universal health care? etc. Obama did what he could. unfortunately it was underestimated how much white people hate black people, so now the primary function of the government is to undo what Obama did.
 
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#21
total nonsense. which party wants higher minimum wage? which party wants universal health care? etc. Obama did what he could. unfortunately it was underestimated how much white people hate black people, so now the primary function of the government is to undo what Obama did.
Universal Healthcare, I’m in favor of.

Higher minimum wage is an “intellectually lazy” campaign tactic. However, since you don’t believe technology has played a part in this, you wouldn’t be worried about McDonalds using self order kiosks to replace workers who’s higher minimum wage they’d rather not pay.
 
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OttoinGrotto

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#22
Universal Healthcare, I’m in favor of.

Higher minimum wage is an “intellectually lazy” campaign tactic. However, since you don’t believe technology has played a part in this, you wouldn’t be worried about McDonalds using self order kiosks to replace workers who’s higher minimum wage they’d rather not pay.
Let's be real though - automation was happening regardless of where the minimum wage sits.
 

Cheriehoop

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#23
Universal Healthcare, I’m in favor of.

Higher minimum wage is an “intellectually lazy” campaign tactic. However, since you don’t believe technology has played a part in this, you wouldn’t be worried about McDonalds using self order kiosks to replace workers who’s higher minimum wage they’d rather not pay.
Self order kiosks in stores etc were here well before the higher minimum wage. No wage is too low not to be paid.

It's the goal of business to make money for their owners, not hiring people and distributing it. They are in the business of constantly trying to reduce expenses to maximize revenues and too many forget that wages are only a necessary evil always under scrutiny to be reduced or eliminated when at all possible. It's puzzling why we think otherwise about corporation's basic goals and the nation's naive belief that the richer a corporation becomes, the better everyone automatically else will be.
 

Hoo's That

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#24
It's also about that time that the concept of "corporate responsibility" was mortally wounded. Personally, I believe it was caused by the UChicago Econ Dep't. model of "the corporation is the stockholders' piggy bank" which came out around then. I was in graduate business school then and we were aghast about what they were saying. When you couple that with Charles Schwab's making stocks more available to "tiny" investors, you get more people draining money out of companies and demanding ever-increasing dividends. I also believe that the easy access to the stock market is responsible for the decline in the savings rate because people feel they can get a higher rate of return from stocks and bonds than savings accounts. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the amount invested in the market added to the amount that is still in banks is at least roughly equal to the amount that used to be just in banks (which are always a lot safer).
 

Cusefan0307

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#25
The lack of investment in Education and Healthcare are the biggest reasons we are falling behind IMO. Harder to move from the bottom up if you can't afford the best of either service.
 
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