3-3-5 | Syracusefan.com

3-3-5

GoSU96

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Two good articles focusing on the three man front and personnel types in a three man front defense.

Multiple Defensive Fronts In The 3-3-5 - written by Zach Arnett, who we tried to hire first.

'https:// bleacherreport.com/ articles/ 2007958-nfl-101-the-basics-of-the-3-4-defensive-front' (Don't know why this URL won't paste)

You watch the defense this year the DL is getting driven down field too much. If they can find a true nose, and guys come back you can have Williams, Black, Johnathan, and Roscoe or Okechukwu rotating at DE, which fits so much better. Right now with Williams at tackle and Black sliding inside when they are Over it's just too small.

If they can find a legit starting NT, this roster is set up for great competition on the DL and LB unit next year. Steve Linton at 240 is the prototype OLB in this defense.
 
Yeah, it seems like without a traditional NT, stopping the run ends up being a guessing game of sending the right run blitzes to clog things up and shoot the gaps. Otherwise the RB is going to get a little bit into the second level every time.
 
Yeah, it seems like without a traditional NT, stopping the run ends up being a guessing game of sending the right run blitzes to clog things up and shoot the gaps. Otherwise the RB is going to get a little bit into the second level every time.

A light front three with a kindergarten back 8 is a bad combo. The run fits and contain assignments on the outside aren't crisp and on top of that they are catching OL clean three yds upfield and getting sealed. It's tough to play defense that way.
 
A light front three with a kindergarten back 8 is a bad combo. The run fits and contain assignments on the outside aren't crisp and on top of that they are catching OL clean three yds upfield and getting sealed. It's tough to play defense that way.
It's somewhat encouraging to me that we've done as well on defense as we have given how we're pressing young guys into action and the offense isn't really helping them.

Credit to White though, he seems to run a lot of guys out there for snaps. Keeps guys a little fresher and it'll pay dividends down the road for the young guys.
 
It's somewhat encouraging to me that we've done as well on defense as we have given how we're pressing young guys into action and the offense isn't really helping them.

Credit to White though, he seems to run a lot of guys out there for snaps. Keeps guys a little fresher and it'll pay dividends down the road for the young guys.

they just can't hold up for 4 quarters being on the field 66% of the time.

Add on the multiple short fields they faced last week and bam.
 
It's somewhat encouraging to me that we've done as well on defense as we have given how we're pressing young guys into action and the offense isn't really helping them.

Credit to White though, he seems to run a lot of guys out there for snaps. Keeps guys a little fresher and it'll pay dividends down the road for the young guys.

the offense "isn't really helping them" might be the kindest statement I have ever heard ;)
 
Two good articles focusing on the three man front and personnel types in a three man front defense.

Multiple Defensive Fronts In The 3-3-5 - written by Zach Arnett, who we tried to hire first.

'https:// bleacherreport.com/ articles/ 2007958-nfl-101-the-basics-of-the-3-4-defensive-front' (Don't know why this URL won't paste)

You watch the defense this year the DL is getting driven down field too much. If they can find a true nose, and guys come back you can have Williams, Black, Johnathan, and Roscoe or Okechukwu rotating at DE, which fits so much better. Right now with Williams at tackle and Black sliding inside when they are Over it's just too small.

If they can find a legit starting NT, this roster is set up for great competition on the DL and LB unit next year. Steve Linton at 240 is the prototype OLB in this defense.
All good points. Just keep in mind a true NT for them is different than your traditional Nose. For this scheme the Nose needs to play multiple fronts (like in the article you shared), they have to perform multiple stunts and twists. There's some I think can play that role in 2021 class. Guys like Moss Lockett and Fuentes can play a 0,1,2 or 3 tech. Its just a matter of getting them big and strong enough to perform those assignments. Some may be able to do it at 300 pounds. Some may not.
 
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All good points. Just keep in mind a true NT for them is different than your traditional Nose. For this scheme the Nose needs to play multiple fronts (like in the article you shared), they have to perform multiple stunts and twists. There's some I think can play that role in 2021 class. Guys like Moss Lockett and Fuentes can play a 0,1,2 or 3 tech. Its just a matter of getting them big and strong enought to performs those assignments. Some may be able to do it at 300 pounds. Some may not.

was just about to share some of these points. I really like the 3-3-5. When I was a D Coordinator in NC, we utilized that as our base.

Obviously, the LBs play such a key in it, but schematically, the DLine is so important because if they are getting pushed back into the LBs, they can’t make their fits.

I think it’s important to remember for the 3-3-5, that every play (Mostly) as the Dline slanting right of left depending on the play call. This syncs with the responsibility and fits the LB can make. With the DL slanting, gap responsibility and being able to effectively take on OL are super important. If the DL slants and allow themselves to easily be washed by the OL, trouble is a brewing. LBs get congested and all hell can break loose.

Money hit the nail on the head when he spoke about Fuentes, Moss, Locket having the look to play all the techniques for the interior D Line. It’s not quite as easy (like it may seem) as recruiting a 6’6 300 pounder and saying take on the center every time.
 
was just about to share some of these points. I really like the 3-3-5. When I was a D Coordinator in NC, we utilized that as our base.

Obviously, the LBs play such a key in it, but schematically, the DLine is so important because if they are getting pushed back into the LBs, they can’t make their fits.

I think it’s important to remember for the 3-3-5, that every play (Mostly) as the Dline slanting right of left depending on the play call. This syncs with the responsibility and fits the LB can make. With the DL slanting, gap responsibility and being able to effectively take on OL are super important. If the DL slants and allow themselves to easily be washed by the OL, trouble is a brewing. LBs get congested and all hell can break loose.

Money hit the nail on the head when he spoke about Fuentes, Moss, Locket having the look to play all the techniques for the interior D Line. It’s not quite as easy (like it may seem) as recruiting a 6’6 300 pounder and saying take on the center every time.
Ive ran this same defense for 5 years now. We call our rover the Adjuster. You are absolutely right. Gap intergrity is huge. The lineman and LB's have to consistently attack and anchor the right gaps. You have to live and die by the moment. I know some dont like to hear that but its the truth. You dont have time to bring in situational DT's because so many teams are going up tempo.
 
we have a D that has its issues but we are also causing a lot of issues for the other team.. the lack of size for many of the players playing too soon as well as the newness for any of them to this scheme should lead us to believe there is some upside. We still have the young kids taking the wrong gaps or the easier gap because they dont want to commit to the tough gap to defend.. we have the pieces for lots of this D in place, as they get bigger and learn it will come down to do we have the dline that can make the plays.

the only teams that have given us fits so far are the ones that could run the power stuff up the middle,
 
Ive ran this same defense for 5 years now. We call our rover the Adjuster. You are absolutely right. Gap intergrity is huge. The lineman and LB's have to consistently attack and anchor the right gaps. You have to live and die by the moment. I know some dont like to hear that but its the truth. You dont have time to bring in situational DT's because so many teams are going up tempo.

Agree with all that and I'm not saying we need Sapp or Darius to succeed. But a kid like Goggins, Bromley or Crume has to be out there. I think just the way they play Williams, Black, or Kingsley are better suited as ends, the last two as 5 techs.

Kevin Mitchell played the DT in a 3 man front at 250 lbs. He was always shading, but he played low, with leverage, great first step, and was always stressing one A gap or another, he wasn't trying to eat double teams.

I wonder if Elmore is a fit inside as a stop gap.
 
Agree with all that and I'm not saying we need Sapp or Darius to succeed. But a kid like Goggins, Bromley or Crume has to be out there. I think just the way they play Williams, Black, or Kingsley are better suited as ends, the last two as 5 techs.

Kevin Mitchell played the DT in a 3 man front at 250 lbs. He was always shading, but he played low, with leverage, great first step, and was always stressing one A gap or another, he wasn't trying to eat double teams.

I wonder if Elmore is a fit inside as a stop gap.
Gotcha. Yes, we need guys that can play their scheme at a high level. Im hoping we get a Juco DT or two. There is one I know they are pursuing heavily. Mitchell was a monster.
 
we have a D that has its issues but we are also causing a lot of issues for the other team.. the lack of size for many of the players playing too soon as well as the newness for any of them to this scheme should lead us to believe there is some upside. We still have the young kids taking the wrong gaps or the easier gap because they dont want to commit to the tough gap to defend.. we have the pieces for lots of this D in place, as they get bigger and learn it will come down to do we have the dline that can make the plays.

the only teams that have given us fits so far are the ones that could run the power stuff up the middle,
Good points. I havent heard Black's name as much as I thought. Figured he would thrive in this scheme.
 
It could be just the way White likes to coach it, but we rarely see true 3 man fronts. An LB is almost always brought to the line. Could be white's preference or our lack of big boys up front. I'm more familiar with the 3-3-5 stack where the strong safeties are tasked with more run support and you can dial up a bunch of blitzes with them. Regardless, White has done a great job and I really would like to retain him into the future
 
I'd listen to that.

Need Dan Conley on with that. He played LB in the 3-4 and 4-3 with P. He was that dominate OLB that could play stand up on the line and put his hand in the ground on 3rd down.
 
Two good articles focusing on the three man front and personnel types in a three man front defense.

Multiple Defensive Fronts In The 3-3-5 - written by Zach Arnett, who we tried to hire first.

'https:// bleacherreport.com/ articles/ 2007958-nfl-101-the-basics-of-the-3-4-defensive-front' (Don't know why this URL won't paste)

You watch the defense this year the DL is getting driven down field too much. If they can find a true nose, and guys come back you can have Williams, Black, Johnathan, and Roscoe or Okechukwu rotating at DE, which fits so much better. Right now with Williams at tackle and Black sliding inside when they are Over it's just too small.

If they can find a legit starting NT, this roster is set up for great competition on the DL and LB unit next year. Steve Linton at 240 is the prototype OLB in this defense.
Thanks for posting.
 
Thanks for posting.

You're welcome

At it's core this defense seems to fit better to counter the PAC, WAC, B12 emphasis on wide open spread offense.

I think Dino's idea is that to compete in the division he needs to be able to put more speed, if not size, on the field to compete with Clemson and FSU (when they have their together).

The concern is can it match up with physical ball of Pitt, NCSt, usually BC, and now Lville.

Dino has a one way formula to win, at least when he came in, which was to go fast, jump out to a quick lead, and force the opponent in passing catch up mode, and this defense fits that approach.

So at the end of the day it comes back to fix the damn offense.
 

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