A good thing?

[SBU72]

Could this 4 game (maybe5?) nose dive be a good thing? I mean with them it's very difficult to deny that coach has lost something. Previous close loses, or late game collapses can be "explained" away. Or point to adequate growth. But 4 17+ pt loses to average (or less) teams is impossible to ignore. Heck even Duke is not powerhouse it once was. Coach supporters are disappearing. The media is all over it and recruits are backing away. It's now obvious to more than this board that it's time for a change.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Sure it adds fuel to fire. Its just hard to justify continuing the status quo, yearly performance has been subpar, recruiting is not consistent, attendance is down, coach is in the headlines due to his comments and attitude, age being used against him in recruiting, it all adds up and then 4 games getting your doors blown off, team looks checked out and just going through the motions and there is only one solution. The blowback of bringing him back would be loud, I would imagine and JW would be wise to start a new chapter and try to sell that to the fan base rather than the status quo.

 

[BigNastyJon]

Losing is never a good thing

 

[SBU72]

Losing is never a good thing

How many participation awards did u get?
I really never liked them for my boys. Yes feel good for doing your best, but doesn't mean u should get an award. And don't die when u lose. Competition by definition requires someone to lose but doesn't mean ur a loser.

 

[Orangezoo]

Success in this new normal is not yet established although some stalwarts are still doing very well but for the most part it's fluid. Thus you want to win, spend and then find your place before the dust settles so to speak. I've said it before but Duke and UNC have made their moves as have a few others to find their footing and re establish. SEC schools are doing very well given the massive pool of resources they can leverage from football support. Whether they can win in March will be interesting but they have so much talent I expect they will. B12 schools are similarly doing well like the SEC.

Anyways things are very unsettled and thus yeah we want positive momentum and wins on the court and on the recruiting trail as a program no matter whose coaching but especially in our case where we are trending poorly and not just because of the new normal. Win often and re establish ourselves as a hoops power.. that is what matters.

 

[DoctorBombay]

How many participation awards did u get?
I really never liked them for my boys. Yes feel good for doing your best, but doesn't mean u should get an award. And don't die when u lose. Competition by definition requires someone to lose but doesn't mean ur a loser.

I suffered plenty of heartbreaking losses In my young athletic life, and never regretted a minute of it. It made me better and prepared me to handle other losses throughout my lifetime
Participation awards suck. Doing your best is something you're supposed to do, and you shouldn't be rewarded for it.
Lose, get up, compete, and try again. Don't whine about it like a little biotche and think you should get rewarded for it. JMHO

 

[Fat tire 13]

Participation awards are a "dog whistle" for parents to get political and/or complain about the younger generation. Which is kind of ironic because it is the parents deciding to issue such an award in the first place.

Any kid, once they are old enough, realizes a participation award is meaningless. I've yet to meet a kid older than 4 years old who actually is proud of receiving such an award, or thinks it means anything

Rant over...

 

[cuseincincy]

Participation awards are a "dog whistle" for parents to get political and/or complain about the younger generation. Which is kind of ironic because it is the parents deciding to issue such an award in the first place.

Any kid, once they are old enough, realizes a participation award is meaningless. I've yet to meet a kid older than 4 years old who actually is proud of receiving such an award, or thinks it means anything

Rant over...

I used to love the "we don't keep score" faction. Like not keeping score is going to make it more "fun." The kids always knew the score anyhow. I always figured they were the same parents that got dodgeball outlawed.

 

[Sudano]

Could this 4 game (maybe5?) nose dive be a good thing? I mean with them it's very difficult to deny that coach has lost something. Previous close loses, or late game collapses can be "explained" away. Or point to adequate growth. But 4 17+ pt loses to average (or less) teams is impossible to ignore. Heck even Duke is not powerhouse it once was. Coach supporters are disappearing. The media is all over it and recruits are backing away. It's now obvious to more than this board that it's time for a change.

Failure is never a good thing.

 

[TheCusian]

Failure is never a good thing.

This is false.

Failure can be a catalyst towards change and growth. Failure unexamined is not a good thing as it leads to apathy, hopelessness, and more failure.

 

[rrlbees]

Could this 4 game (maybe5?) nose dive be a good thing? I mean with them it's very difficult to deny that coach has lost something. Previous close loses, or late game collapses can be "explained" away. Or point to adequate growth. But 4 17+ pt loses to average (or less) teams is impossible to ignore. Heck even Duke is not powerhouse it once was. Coach supporters are disappearing. The media is all over it and recruits are backing away. It's now obvious to more than this board that it's time for a change.

I don’t think our players would think losing is a good thing.

 

[tptcuse]

This is false.

Failure can be a catalyst towards change and growth. Failure unexamined is not a good thing as it leads to apathy, hopelessness, and more failure.

Deep.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

This is false.

Failure can be a catalyst towards change and growth. Failure unexamined is not a good thing as it leads to apathy, hopelessness, and more failure.

Yep.

If you've ever rooted for a pro team that hit a down cycle where management/ownership wouldn't accept reality, you probably felt some relief when it went through a stretch of play that was so undeniably poor that it forced their hand in trading that star for prospects and to start tanking, or removing the in-over-his head coach or GM. During those times, the last thing you want is for those figureheads to be able to point to something to justify their continued employment for another week/month/year. If they survive it but use that failure as a learning opportunity, something can be salvaged, but I don't think anyone has any notions of that happening here.

 

[rrlbees]

Yep.

If you've ever rooted for a pro team that hit a down cycle where management/ownership wouldn't accept reality, you probably felt some relief when it went through a stretch of play that was so undeniably poor that it forced their hand in trading that star for prospects and to start tanking, or removing the in-over-his head coach or GM. During those times, the last thing you want is for those figureheads to be able to point to something to justify their continued employment for another week/month/year. If they survive it but use that failure as a learning opportunity, something can be salvaged, but I don't think anyone has any notions of that happening here.

We’re talking kids here.

 

[Cuse'91]

Yep.

If you've ever rooted for a pro team that hit a down cycle where management/ownership wouldn't accept reality, you probably felt some relief when it went through a stretch of play that was so undeniably poor that it forced their hand in trading that star for prospects and to start tanking, or removing the in-over-his head coach or GM. During those times, the last thing you want is for those figureheads to be able to point to something to justify their continued employment for another week/month/year. If they survive it but use that failure as a learning opportunity, something can be salvaged, but I don't think anyone has any notions of that happening here.

Yeah, like a bolt from the sky Sweet Sixteen run pulled out from one's nether regions.

 

[Sudano]

This is false.

Failure can be a catalyst towards change and growth. Failure unexamined is not a good thing as it leads to apathy, hopelessness, and more failure.

Strawman Semantics, under the context of SU Basketball over the last 10-15 yrs failure has led to apathy, hopelessness and more failure. Success is the goal, failure is the opposite of that.

 

[Nicknack]

Could this 4 game (maybe5?) nose dive be a good thing? I mean with them it's very difficult to deny that coach has lost something. Previous close loses, or late game collapses can be "explained" away. Or point to adequate growth. But 4 17+ pt loses to average (or less) teams is impossible to ignore. Heck even Duke is not powerhouse it once was. Coach supporters are disappearing. The media is all over it and recruits are backing away. It's now obvious to more than this board that it's time for a change.

No, but following that logic, maybe you should also root for Mintz spraining his ankle so he has two bad games and doesn't get drafted. Yeah, let's hope for the worst, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Fi

Failure is never a good thing.

Figuring out what doesn’t work is key to success.

 

[TheCusian]

Strawman Semantics, under the context of SU Basketball over the last 10-15 yrs failure has led to apathy, hopelessness and more failure. Success is the goal, failure is the opposite of that.

Agreed. Lessons weren’t learned or shoved aside for other considerations. Glad we are in agreement

 

[OrlandoCuse]

JB ain’t turning the program around. There’s only one option. Losing badly just brings it to the forefront to make the change easier with very little controversy.

The absolute worst decision the SU Administration can make is to let JB stick around coaching for another yeah. Anyone with one shred of common sense knows the JB era is over.

 

[SBU72]

No, but following that logic, maybe you should also root for Mintz spraining his ankle so he has two bad games and doesn't get drafted. Yeah, let's hope for the worst, that makes a lot of sense.

Logic? Only looking in hindsight. Never ever want something bad to happen! Just looking at a frustratingly bad stretch being cause for a good thing. In hindsight if Mintz shooting 16% from 3pt line causes him to stay another year a good thing for SU and maybe even Mintz. If he goes 10 for 10 in the next and ends up getting drafted all good.

 

[Sbucketball]

Could this 4 game (maybe5?) nose dive be a good thing? I mean with them it's very difficult to deny that coach has lost something. Previous close loses, or late game collapses can be "explained" away. Or point to adequate growth. But 4 17+ pt loses to average (or less) teams is impossible to ignore. Heck even Duke is not powerhouse it once was. Coach supporters are disappearing. The media is all over it and recruits are backing away. It's now obvious to more than this board that it's time for a change.

Mostly sad. It’s a weird emotion. I’m excited and anxious for the future and to get the program back, but sad that this could be how it ends for JB.

 

[Nicknack]

Mostly sad. It’s a weird emotion. I’m excited and anxious for the future and to get the program back, but sad that this could be how it ends for JB.

Yeah, that's how I feel as well. It's easy to find yourself frustrated with Jim a bit with how he's handled things. However, he's done so much more good for the program, university, and community. It's not even close. That said, it is sad if this is how it ends for him.

 

[OrangeAl]

It's like watching Michelangelo paint himself into a corner.

 

[brian williams]

Deep.

F.A.I.L. First Attempt In Learning. The critical word is learning and growing.