ACC has too many good basketball players to rely on just the zone | Syracusefan.com

ACC has too many good basketball players to rely on just the zone

OrangeFoo

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Over the past few years we have come to rely on the zone to not only shutdown other teams but also to compensate for our increasingly poor offensive teams by getting us easy buckets off of turnovers and missed three pointers. One huge difference I've noticed about ACC teams is that overall the conference has much better basketball players then the BE... the BE had much better athletes but not basketball players.

For better or for worse when we are playing the zone we are plat on the percentages that means we are relying on other teams to miss some open shots. Unfortunately the ACC has enough good ball players where they generally hit enough shots and make just enough good plays and play disciplined enough to keep it close against us. Now if we had a halfway decent offense this wouldn't be a problem but because our O is so bad every game becomes a tight one because the other team is not just going to miss those open shots or make those dumb plays we could rely on our former BE brethren to do. Those dumb plays and missed shots were the difference between close games and comfortable 10 point plus wins.

This is not a panic post saying the sky is falling or trash the zone post this is just an observation that might explain why we have had so many close calls this year. We are going to need to start recruiting players who can score and play basketball again and not just rely on our D to carry us. I suspect that the ACC will catch on to how to play against the zone pretty quickly and once they do we will need to be able to play offense again.
 

CuseitUp

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in my opinion, the zone has been working for us more than fine, after all we were 25-0...I think if we pressed more often it would help, but boehiem does like to play it cautious so...
 

MadNY3

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Over the past few years we have come to rely on the zone to not only shutdown other teams but also to compensate for our increasingly poor offensive teams by getting us easy buckets off of turnovers and missed three pointers. One huge difference I've noticed about ACC teams is that overall the conference has much better basketball players then the BE... the BE had much better athletes but not basketball players.

For better or for worse when we are playing the zone we are plat on the percentages that means we are relying on other teams to miss some open shots. Unfortunately the ACC has enough good ball players where they generally hit enough shots and make just enough good plays and play disciplined enough to keep it close against us. Now if we had a halfway decent offense this wouldn't be a problem but because our O is so bad every game becomes a tight one because the other team is not just going to miss those open shots or make those dumb plays we could rely on our former BE brethren to do. Those dumb plays and missed shots were the difference between close games and comfortable 10 point plus wins.

This is not a panic post saying the sky is falling or trash the zone post this is just an observation that might explain why we have had so many close calls this year. We are going to need to start recruiting players who can score and play basketball again and not just rely on our D to carry us. I suspect that the ACC will catch on to how to play against the zone pretty quickly and once they do we will need to be able to play offense again.


No.
 

iommi

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For a second there I thought igor fixed his Internet and changed his handle.

Just kidding, you made some valid points here.
 

OrangeFoo

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and here we go
Your missing my point... this isn't a bash the zone post this is a the zone isn't enough to guarantee us victory against even the lower class ACC teams like it would in the BE so we need to start getting an offense again. When was the last time we had an offense that was any good? We have supposedly 3 NBA players starting and our offense is terrible. Last year we had this year's NBA rookie of the year at point and our offense was terrible. I just don't get it.
 
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Brooky03

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Your missing my point... this isn't a bash the zone post this is a the zone isn't enough to guarantee us victory against even the lower class ACC teams like it would in the BE so we need to start getting an offense again. When was the last time we had an offense that was any good? We have supposedly 3 NBA players starting and our offense is terrible. Last year we had this year's NBA rookie of the year at point and our offense was terrible. I just don't get it.

Our offense has sucked because we haven't had a truly versatile SF in a while and our centers have been offensively challenged ever since Jackson graduated.

The zone is fine and we've been killin' it on defense this year. If we played an uptempo game, we probably could have won by 20. Bottom feeder Big East team would occasionally give us fits too, so this isn't new. Remember when Depaul beat us 285-7 or something like that?
 

ImperialOrange

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Your missing my point... this isn't a bash the zone post this is a the zone isn't enough to guarantee us victory against even the lower class ACC teams like it would in the BE so we need to start getting an offense again. When was the last time we had an offense that was any good? We have supposedly 3 NBA players starting and our offense is terrible. Last year we had this year's NBA rookie of the year at point and our offense was terrible. I just don't get it.

Its not that hard to figure out. Teams pack the defense In and let us shoot jump shots. Our nba pg from last year couldn't really shoot jumpers either. All of our players are most dangerous when driving the lane and not so terrifying as outside shooters. Our best offense in recent memory had wes and andy stretching defenses. As of now, we are terribly predictable on offense.
 

OrangeFoo

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Our offense has sucked because we haven't had a truly versatile SF in a while and our centers have been offensively challenged ever since Jackson graduated.

The zone is fine and we've been killin' it on defense this year. If we played an uptempo game, we probably could have won by 20. Bottom feeder Big East team would occasionally give us fits too, so this isn't new. Remember when Depaul beat us 285-7 or something like that?
Really versatile like CJ Fair?
 

longislandcuse

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In CBB if you don't have 3 point shooting, your offense is going to struggle. It looks like we're fixing that with upcoming recruiting classes as well as BJJ coming up through the ranks.
 
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Brooky03

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Really versatile like CJ Fair?

I wouldn't call CJ versatile. I'm not saying he isn't a really, really good player but versatile is debatable. He has a very strong mid-range jumper and drives to his left like a boss. Those are the things he does well. What makes me question his versatility is his ballhandling beyond 2-3 bounces, his inconsistent 3-point shooting (he's really only a "corner specialist"), and the lack of a right hand.
 

mscanlo

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sorry, but bad timing. you should not make the claim the "acc has too many good basketball players to rely on just the zone" after playing boston college
 

ImperialOrange

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Perfect season is gone. Lets work on some versatility moving forward and position for the tourney run. Lets throw a few alley oops again. Even if we air mail them it gives the defense something else to worry about. Lets get my 3 sons some pt to learn the defense and some shots. They'll at least shoot from different areas and attack different angles which will keep defenses out of the comfort zone they now have.
 

SarasotaPaul

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Over the past few years we have come to rely on the zone to not only shutdown other teams but also to compensate for our increasingly poor offensive teams by getting us easy buckets off of turnovers and missed three pointers. One huge difference I've noticed about ACC teams is that overall the conference has much better basketball players then the BE... the BE had much better athletes but not basketball players.

For better or for worse when we are playing the zone we are plat on the percentages that means we are relying on other teams to miss some open shots. Unfortunately the ACC has enough good ball players where they generally hit enough shots and make just enough good plays and play disciplined enough to keep it close against us. Now if we had a halfway decent offense this wouldn't be a problem but because our O is so bad every game becomes a tight one because the other team is not just going to miss those open shots or make those dumb plays we could rely on our former BE brethren to do. Those dumb plays and missed shots were the difference between close games and comfortable 10 point plus wins.

This is not a panic post saying the sky is falling or trash the zone post this is just an observation that might explain why we have had so many close calls this year. We are going to need to start recruiting players who can score and play basketball again and not just rely on our D to carry us. I suspect that the ACC will catch on to how to play against the zone pretty quickly and once they do we will need to be able to play offense again.
Seems like a logical post until you look at the results so far.

As for players that can score. I seem to remember enough games where someone on the team was on fire and the Duke game where everyone contributed. We have scorers. I think the # 1 thing had them too tight. CJ could have had 3o or more but missed his driving bank shot tonight that has always been a gimme. We missed many short shots that just rimmed out tonight. A decent game by even one more player tonight and we win again.

In years past we had difficult schedules in Feb and the same is true this year. Instead of losses we are winning everything but tonight. So how did the BE teams beat us with lousier BB players? Against the "better" ACC players we are winning tight games and not getting beat. ,
 

cardinalfan123

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I disagree with your post entirely. The ACC as a whole doesn't have better players than the Big East did from 2005-2012. I don't have the time but if I pulled the number of lottery picks from Big East schools during that period they'd compare favorably with every other major conference.
 

SaltLakeOrange

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Your missing my point... this isn't a bash the zone post this is a the zone isn't enough to guarantee us victory against even the lower class ACC teams like it would in the BE so we need to start getting an offense again. When was the last time we had an offense that was any good? We have supposedly 3 NBA players starting and our offense is terrible. Last year we had this year's NBA rookie of the year at point and our offense was terrible. I just don't get it.

There are no guarantees of winning. Your best chance at winning comes when you make some freaking shots. We play zone exclusively and will continue to. That's not changing. And, for the record, the ACC is no better than the Big East was...
 

cuseattle

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I disagree with your post entirely. The ACC as a whole doesn't have better players than the Big East did from 2005-2012. I don't have the time but if I pulled the number of lottery picks from Big East schools during that period they'd compare favorably with every other major conference.
The Big East was great. Hello.
 

Entropic

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We aren't giving up a lot of points. We aren't scoring many points and that is 100% the issue with the team at this point.
 

orangenirvana

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One huge difference I've noticed about ACC teams is that overall the conference has much better basketball players then the BE... the BE had much better athletes but not basketball players.
I couldn't disagree more with this statement.
 

Cusefan0307

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Easy to say after a loss. We aren't going to win many games shooting 34 percent no matter how good our defense is.
 
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Townie72

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Read Boeheim's comments above.

SU has been 100% Zone for 6 years.

Man to Man would take years to install. Couldn't do it until they had an extended Summer trip, which they can't do for four years.

Not going to happen.
 

OrangeFoo

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There is a serious lack of reading comprehension on this board... my original post never said anything about scrapping the zone. My point was that for the last few years we have relied on our D which relies on other teams missing shots and not executing to win us games and our offense has sucked. Now that we are in the ACC where there are better basketball players we are not going to be able to rely on our D to get us out of rock fights because every ACC team seems to have at least a few guys who can hit threes and they seem to be much more disciplined than the bottom feeder BE teams. We need to get back to teams who are more balanced on offense even it means sacrificing a bit on D.
 

longislandcuse

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I disagree with your post entirely. The ACC as a whole doesn't have better players than the Big East did from 2005-2012. I don't have the time but if I pulled the number of lottery picks from Big East schools during that period they'd compare favorably with every other major conference.
I dont think that is the point of his post. The Big East may have had better elite NBA talent but the ACC overall has better players 1-12 on rosters than the Big East did and instead of being athletes (which the NBA loves) the ACC is filled with ND type teams who have play stall ball and shoot the 3 ball well.

We can out-athlete anyone in the country pretty much every year. So when you come at us with athletes and suspect shooting, good luck. When you come at us with high bball iq, 3 point shooting and a stall ball game plan with a decent bench, its like playing ND every night with lower-tier, middle of the pack ACC teams, whereas we could just run those middle of the pack, lower-tier teams out of the gym in the Big East.
 

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