ACC Network problems...

[ejz555]

According to this article from SportsBusinessDaily...

ACC network may stall over rights issues

By Michael Smith & John Ourand, Staff Writers

Published May 20, 2013

Don’t expect an ACC-branded TV channel to be launched any time soon.

The biggest problem so far is a rights issue. ESPN needs to control the conference’s syndicated rights to launch a channel. But those rights are tied up until 2027 through deals with Raycom and Fox Sports Net.

“There’s no way an ACC network co-exists with a syndicated model,” said Chris Bevilacqua, a media consultant who worked with the Pac-12 to form a league network. “They’re going to have to get those rights back.”

Just a couple of weeks after the ACC renegotiated its ESPN deal and all 15 schools agreed to grant their media rights to the conference, giving the league the kind of long-term security that will theoretically keep it together, a conference network became a hot topic.

But last week’s annual spring meetings at Amelia Island, Fla., served as a reminder that it’s going to be a long and winding path to get to a channel. There was much more discussion about the prospects for a channel outside the meeting rooms than there was inside, say sources who attended the meetings.


Raycom holds the rights to live ACC football and basketball games, and sublicensed the rights of some to Fox.
Photo by: GETTY IMAGES
With subjects like the future of the men’s basketball tournament dominating conversation, the channel hardly came up, even though ESPN executives Burke Magnus and Dan Margulis attended the meetings, as they typically do.

The week before, ESPN and Raycom engaged in meetings at the Charlotte offices of ESPN Regional Television, but those talks centered on how to program new member Notre Dame, not how to work together on a channel.

Such a league-branded channel is considered vital to the conference’s financial future. The Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC, beginning next year, all have channels dedicated to their leagues.

But the only commitment ESPN has given the ACC is that it will discuss the benefits of launching a channel. Industry insiders say there is not a rush to put together an ACC channel, and that it likely would be 2016 or 2017 before one would launch, if then.

If, in three to four years, ESPN decides an ACC channel is not financially viable, sources say there will still be financial benefits to the ACC.

The league’s current media rights contract is valued at $260 million a year through 2027, or about $18 million per school on an average annual basis across 14 schools. Notre Dame’s cut is much smaller because the Irish have their own football deal with NBC.

ESPN, if it says no to a channel, would increase its compensation to the ACC, pushing the per-school average to close to $20 million.

The main roadblock is rights. When it signed its ACC deal in 2010, ESPN and Charlotte-based Raycom Sports cut a deal that grants Raycom the ACC’s digital and corporate sponsorship rights, plus a heavy dose of live football and basketball games. Through a sublicensing agreement, Raycom owns the rights to 31 live football games and 60 live men’s basketball games.

Even if the conference is able to buy back those rights from Raycom, a second roadblock remains. Raycom sublicensed 17 of those football games and 25 of those basketball games to Fox, which carries the games on its regional sports networks throughout the ACC footprint. Live local sports programming is important to Fox’s RSNs, and they are not likely to give up those games cheaply.

The games that stay with Raycom make up the ACC’s long-running syndicated package that is distributed to more than 50 million households on over-the-air networks, and reaches 25 of the top 50 U.S. TV markets.

Those deals extend through 2027.

It’s unlikely that ESPN will try to launch a channel without those rights. ESPN brought all of those rights — TV, digital, sponsorship — together as it formed the SEC Network, which launches in August 2014.

“I just wonder if the ACC is a little late to the party,” Bevilacqua said. “They had the opportunity to look at this several years ago and decided not to pursue it, when in fact, that was the more appropriate window. A lot has happened since then, and a lot of other programming services have popped up. There’s even more headwind out there now that makes launching a network not impossible, but certainly harder to do.”

The ACC has made the case that its league is perfectly suited for a channel. It cites figures that show the ACC has more TV households in its footprint, 43 million, than any other conference.

Duke Athletic Director Kevin White, North Carolina AD Bubba Cunningham and Clemson AD Dan Radakovich form the ACC’s TV subcommittee.

 

[DoctorBombay]

This would've been alot more worrisome before the GOR.
Now that thats been done, the stability of the league is not an issue...at least for the time-being.
Everyone willingly signed the GOR, and presumably had these facts at their disposal before doing so.
Frankly, with all the technological changes, Washington-led legislation, and other issues, I wonder if the standard Conference TV model is even a slam dunk at this point?

 

[omniorange]

"The league’s current media rights contract is valued at $260 million a year through 2027, or about $18 million per school on an average annual basis across 14 schools. Notre Dame’s cut is much smaller because the Irish have their own football deal with NBC."

So much for $20 million per school.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Dnyr85]

18 Mil. so be it.

Considering what SU was getting, this is a blessing !!

 

[Alsacs]

"The league’s current media rights contract is valued at $260 million a year through 2027, or about $18 million per school on an average annual basis across 14 schools. Notre Dame’s cut is much smaller because the Irish have their own football deal with NBC."

So much for $20 million per school.

Cheers,
Neil

I bet this doesn't include the new figures from the ACC-ESPN renegotiation after the ACC GOR.

On the network front the ACC needs to press Raycom to get FOX Sports South to sell those rights back at a reasonable price. I think the ACC should compensate Raycom/Fox Sports with a little more than they bought them for, but Raycom better cooperate or when the ACC contract expires in 2027 good bye Raycom Sports getting anything anymore. I doubt they would like this to be the end of their ACC relationship, so they would be likely to cooperate.

 

[Alsacs]

"The league’s current media rights contract is valued at $260 million a year through 2027, or about $18 million per school on an average annual basis across 14 schools. Notre Dame’s cut is much smaller because the Irish have their own football deal with NBC."

So much for $20 million per school.

Cheers,
Neil

I bet this doesn't include the new figures from the ACC-ESPN renegotiation after the ACC GOR.

On the network front the ACC needs to press Raycom to get FOX Sports South to sell those rights back at a reasonable price. I think the ACC should compensate Raycom/Fox Sports with a little more than they bought them for, but Raycom better cooperate or when the ACC contract expires in 2027 good bye Raycom Sports getting anything anymore. I doubt they would like this to be the end of their ACC relationship, so they would be likely to cooperate.

 

[Btstimpy]

I bet this doesn't include the new figures from the ACC-ESPN renegotiation after the ACC GOR.

On the network front the ACC needs to press Raycom to get FOX Sports South to sell those rights back at a reasonable price. I think the ACC should compensate Raycom/Fox Sports with a little more than they bought them for, but Raycom better cooperate or when the ACC contract expires in 2027 good bye Raycom Sports getting anything anymore. I doubt they would like this to be the end of their ACC relationship, so they would be likely to cooperate.

If there is ever one certainty in this, it's that Raycom and the ACC will work cooperatively to make each other successful. The relationship with Raycom goes way back, and it includes the Bowl Game in Charlotte and the ACC Championship Game in Charlotte. Raycom is also leading the way with the ACC Digital Network. They will be involved with the ACC Channel in some form. I don't think this is a huge show stopper. The Fox Sports net part is an issue, but it depends on what that content actually is.

 

[omniorange]

If there is ever one certainty in this, it's that Raycom and the ACC will work cooperatively to make each other successful. The relationship with Raycom goes way back, and it includes the Bowl Game in Charlotte and the ACC Championship Game in Charlotte. Raycom is also leading the way with the ACC Digital Network. They will be involved with the ACC Channel in some form. I don't think this is a huge show stopper. The Fox Sports net part is an issue, but it depends on what that content actually is.

Exactly. Have to imagine the Fox Sports net issue was much stronger with the SEC considering their separate deals with several of the SEC schools. And that got done.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[arbitragegls]

Well, in all things there is a potential problem that rears its head; however, being told that this "concern" is not stopping the movement toward the ACC Network. Still moving forward. Here is Swofford on a radio show speaking to this issue as well as others that interest us all including MSG.
Also, don't let news today keep you at the $18,000,000 figure...it is going to be $20,000,000/team very soon...
99.9 The Fan ‏@999TheFan 22m
Adam Gold talks Notre Dame, Hoops Tourney in NY, & ACC Network w/ACC Commish John Swofford. Hear it today at 3:30 and 5:30 on 99.9 The FanWAIT ABOUT A MINUTE OR TWO IN Swoffod comes on):

http://player.liquidcompass.net/WCMCFM


In fact, part of what Swofford said was a reiteration of the ACC footprint as #1 and also discussed NBC and Notre Dame:

"population, TV's, households" -- "we're #1"

AND THIS...READ BELOW MORE THAN ONCE...and breathe, calmly shout "How about that":

Is NBC a deal breaker if ND wanted to join as a full member: "No, we would work it out... The current agreement is... If ND were to join a football conference during the time of our current TV agreement, it would be the ACC"

Continue discussing...and know that ESPN, ACC, Raycom and Fox are all talking and the path is clearer with the ACC Network than it was for either the SEC's or Pac 12's...going to be positive.

It's Good To Be 'Cuse!!!

 

[MaxwellCuse]

I think this was just tossed out there for the benefit of The Kooks. The realignment landscape has been pretty barren as of late and The Dude and Friends were in danger of going under. The Raycom bit is about to morph into a thousand fantasies as to how "Football Schools" will now be on the move from "basketball conferences" to new homes with like-minded brethren such as WVU. Long live the fantasy.

 

[Alsacs]

The Dude and his meth infected idiots at WVU have made it impossible to wish anything good for WVU. I used to like WVU and respected their fanbase, but they are ACC Jihadists now and I now hope WVU dies on the island they are currently in the Big XII. It makes me feel bad for Pitt fans having to have a rivalry with these crazy people They are hilarious if they think the Big XII is better than the ACC and the conference is anything more than Texahoma in football and Kansas in basketball. Without Geno Smith, Tavon Austin, Stedman Bailey and their pathetically putrid defense I could see some rough times ahead for WVU.

The ACC network is 2 to 4 years away from happening according to Swofford, but the ACC/Raycom need to get Fox Sports South to sell back the 17 football games a year and 25 basketball games a year they purchased from Raycom. The ACC will have to overpay for them, but they will eventually IMO.

 

[Alsacs]

@Lou_C I pity you for trying to bring facts and good analysis to the WVU fans. They won't miss any chance they can to try and stir crap up and try to make the ACC appear weak. Their have BEEN NO LEAKS out of the ACC offices, and yet these idiots continue trying to sound like they are experts and know what is going on. You did a good job bringing the facts to their attention, but they have no interest in the facts unless they fit their narrative. I hope they realize their future is completely tied to Texas like Iowa State, Baylor, Kansas State, and Texas Tech as the B1G, SEC, ACC all won't add them for different reasons. If this fanbase would just shut up and talk about them teams and not continue war on the ACC they would have better relationships in the future, but they won't as a result have any allies in the ACC. FSU is probably their best bet, but they cancelled that series last year and that hurt FSU's SOS last year, and that won't be forgotten. What I found funny was when Oliver Luck cancelled the game last year he said well we look forward to Florida State returning the game in Morgantown in 2013 which was never going to happen, but he said it.

 

[rrlbees]

So Swofford is currently handcuffed by his kid.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[Resonator]

The Dude and his meth infected idiots at WVU have made it impossible to wish anything good for WVU. I used to like WVU and respected their fanbase, but they are ACC Jihadists now and I now hope WVU dies on the island they are currently in the Big XII. It makes me feel bad for Pitt fans having to have a rivalry with these crazy people They are hilarious if they think the Big XII is better than the ACC and the conference is anything more than Texahoma in football and Kansas in basketball. Without Geno Smith, Tavon Austin, Stedman Bailey and their pathetically putrid defense I could see some rough times ahead for WVU.

The ACC network is 2 to 4 years away from happening according to Swofford, but the ACC/Raycom need to get Fox Sports South to sell back the 17 football games a year and 25 basketball games a year they purchased from Raycom. The ACC will have to overpay for them, but they will eventually IMO.

And, ACC haters across the internet think this means the ACCN is a no-go. Some of them won't get past their own butthurt to actually see the truth.

That really makes me laugh...ACC haters. Some folks need to get a life.

 

[Chip]

For the record, I'm perfectly ok with $18M for now. If we can't compete being in the ACC and getting $18M per year, then we probably can't compete being in the ACC and getting $20M per year. Gross will have to downgrade from the Bentley to an S Class, but other than that, life should be good.

July 1...

 

[omniorange]

For the record, I'm perfectly ok with $18M for now. If we can't compete being in the ACC and getting $18M per year, then we probably can't compete being in the ACC and getting $20M per year. Gross will have to downgrade from the Bentley to an S Class, but other than that, life should be good.

July 1...

Of course we're happy. We get a huge increase and went to a geographical, academic similar, and right-sized athletics type conference. It's the fans of FSU and Clemson that wanted their teams to bolt for not making as much as the Big 12. Good thing the ACC got that GOR.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[JimBoston]

For what it's worth, there already is an "ACC Network" as I have watched games for years. This is the Raycom content that is syndicated to Raycom stations/Fox RSNs/other channels. In Boston, the content shows up on NESN or sometimes on Channel 38 I believe. The ACCN is just not a cable net today and it is run by Raycom Sports.

Without ACC content, Raycom Sports is finished as a business, so if an ACC cable network is going to start in the near future, it looks like Raycom would insist on being a partner which would depress the economics for the ACC schools. (if the ACC was a company, it would probably make sense to buy Raycom Sports to get back the ACC rights as well to leverage their existing infrastructure.) The Fox Regional Sports Networks could probably be bought out as they have other content and they would survive. Still, this would delay profitability.

It appears ESPN would pay each ACC school $2 million per year if the ACCN does not start up. That is big money considering that an ACCN would require upfront spending.

End of the day, Swofford made a huge mistake when he sold so much content and marketing rights to Raycom (although I'm sure that Swofford's son at Raycom is happy). Clearly, he wasn't planning on a conference cable net when he sold the content. What it means is that an ACCN cable net can happen, but there will be big drags on initial profitability and it may make more sense for the ACC to wait to try to launch it.

 

[Lou_C]

@Lou_C I pity you for trying to bring facts and good analysis to the WVU fans. They won't miss any chance they can to try and stir crap up and try to make the ACC appear weak. Their have BEEN NO LEAKS out of the ACC offices, and yet these idiots continue trying to sound like they are experts and know what is going on. You did a good job bringing the facts to their attention, but they have no interest in the facts unless they fit their narrative. I hope they realize their future is completely tied to Texas like Iowa State, Baylor, Kansas State, and Texas Tech as the B1G, SEC, ACC all won't add them for different reasons. If this fanbase would just shut up and talk about them teams and not continue war on the ACC they would have better relationships in the future, but they won't as a result have any allies in the ACC. FSU is probably their best bet, but they cancelled that series last year and that hurt FSU's SOS last year, and that won't be forgotten. What I found funny was when Oliver Luck cancelled the game last year he said well we look forward to Florida State returning the game in Morgantown in 2013 which was never going to happen, but he said it.

Ha, thanks. I was at the forefront of the reallignment story on some FSU message boards, including beating the drum for the Big 12 for awhile. Or more specifically, for considering the Big 12. One year ago I was definitely playing the devil's advocate for a move to the Big 12. By June, I was already moving off that and saying FSU should step away. As a reallignment junkie, that WVU board was/is ground central for rumors and news.

I still find myself checking in. There are a lot of obnoxious folks there, but some decent folks too. I can't blame most of them for their world view, although I blame some of them for the way they express it. I don't try to pick apart their world view, they're welcome to it, but I do occasionally try to bring some rational thought. There are some obnoxious ACC and FSU folks on there too that talk more smack than facts, and I try to offset that.

I actually got to know the Dude a bit, and I like him as a person, he just got in over his head. He threw himself in over his head maybe is more accurate.

I'm in a minority in that I'd still like to see WVU in the ACC. They are a different breed for sure, but we don't have a whole lot of that passion and enthusiasm in the ACC right now.

As for this ACC Network/Raycom thing, it's not as if this is a surprise. Everyone that follows the ACC contracts like myself knows exactly what is involved, including the sublicensed games to Fox, so it's not like ACC/ESPN folks are caught by surprise. It's an issue, but it's certainly not a landmine that was just discovered.

There are two key points:

1) Raycom Sports exists as an entity only at the wishes of the ACC. That's not debatable, Raycom is on the record on that. They can fight tooth and nail to enforce their current agreement, and disband in 2027. Or they can play ball, and be a player in perpetuity. Will giving up this contract hurt their bottom line? Might they have to go from say 50 employees to 30 employees? Who knows. But it's hard to imagine that they would sign their 2027 death warrant. That even precludes the long cooperative history and the fact that they "owe" the ACC their current existence. They will not exist in 15 years.

2) The deal with Raycom is not actually between the ACC and Raycom. It's between ESPN and Raycom. ESPN subleases the content. So ESPN isn't a third party trying to buy rights it doesn't have, like with the SEC, they are trying to get back rights they subleased. I would imagine there are terms and procedures built in to all ESPN agreements for ESPN doing so. I have no idea if the penalties are high, but they are surely there, it's not like this kind of thing never happens when you are talking about 10-15 year contracts. And even if the costs to break the contract are very nasty and expensive, if ESPN breaks the contract, Raycom is dead. Gone. They don't even make it to 2027 in that case.

So Raycom has every incentive to play ball and be part of the future. Now that's not to say there aren't some interesting issues at stake. It's hard to imagine that Raycom stations would still have live OTA ACC content on their family of stations, that might go away. Or maybe they retain rights to something like the ACC tournament like they have now, which would never end up on the ACC network anyway. More likely, I imagine they get cut into the deal by handling the digital part as they do now, and perhaps being paid by ESPN to produce a certain amount of content for an ACC network. They have a fully built out sports production, marketing and digital arm, and I could see a situation where the SEC can leverage that to reduce startup costs.

There are some things to work out, and as everyone acknowledges, it will take a few years, but everyone should pretty much be on the same page.

 

[Alsacs]

Ha, thanks. I was at the forefront of the reallignment story on some FSU message boards, including beating the drum for the Big 12 for awhile. Or more specifically, for considering the Big 12. One year ago I was definitely playing the devil's advocate for a move to the Big 12. By June, I was already moving off that and saying FSU should step away. As a reallignment junkie, that WVU board was/is ground central for rumors and news.

I still find myself checking in. There are a lot of obnoxious folks there, but some decent folks too. I can't blame most of them for their world view, although I blame some of them for the way they express it. I don't try to pick apart their world view, they're welcome to it, but I do occasionally try to bring some rational thought. There are some obnoxious ACC and FSU folks on there too that talk more smack than facts, and I try to offset that.

I actually got to know the Dude a bit, and I like him as a person, he just got in over his head. He threw himself in over his head maybe is more accurate.

I'm in a minority in that I'd still like to see WVU in the ACC. They are a different breed for sure, but we don't have a whole lot of that passion and enthusiasm in the ACC right now.

As for this ACC Network/Raycom thing, it's not as if this is a surprise. Everyone that follows the ACC contracts like myself knows exactly what is involved, including the sublicensed games to Fox, so it's not like ACC/ESPN folks are caught by surprise. It's an issue, but it's certainly not a landmine that was just discovered.

There are two key points:

1) Raycom Sports exists as an entity only at the wishes of the ACC. That's not debatable, Raycom is on the record on that. They can fight tooth and nail to enforce their current agreement, and disband in 2027. Or they can play ball, and be a player in perpetuity. Will giving up this contract hurt their bottom line? Might they have to go from say 50 employees to 30 employees? Who knows. But it's hard to imagine that they would sign their 2027 death warrant. That even precludes the long cooperative history and the fact that they "owe" the ACC their current existence. They will not exist in 15 years.

2) The deal with Raycom is not actually between the ACC and Raycom. It's between ESPN and Raycom. ESPN subleases the content. So ESPN isn't a third party trying to buy rights it doesn't have, like with the SEC, they are trying to get back rights they subleased. I would imagine there are terms and procedures built in to all ESPN agreements for ESPN doing so. I have no idea if the penalties are high, but they are surely there, it's not like this kind of thing never happens when you are talking about 10-15 year contracts. And even if the costs to break the contract are very nasty and expensive, if ESPN breaks the contract, Raycom is dead. Gone. They don't even make it to 2027 in that case.

So Raycom has every incentive to play ball and be part of the future. Now that's not to say there aren't some interesting issues at stake. It's hard to imagine that Raycom stations would still have live OTA ACC content on their family of stations, that might go away. Or maybe they retain rights to something like the ACC tournament like they have now, which would never end up on the ACC network anyway. More likely, I imagine they get cut into the deal by handling the digital part as they do now, and perhaps being paid by ESPN to produce a certain amount of content for an ACC network. They have a fully built out sports production, marketing and digital arm, and I could see a situation where the SEC can leverage that to reduce startup costs.

There are some things to work out, and as everyone acknowledges, it will take a few years, but everyone should pretty much be on the same page.

Everything you said in here is good analysis and fair as well. I don't blame WVU for being proud of their history and trying to defend their status, I just can't read their board and most of the delusions they seem to be trying to spew as facts. I mean reading their board you think the whole world believes the Earth is round, but the WVU board believes the Earth is flat, and nobody can convince them otherwise. I have no problem with defending your school and trying to do what is best for yourself, but I couldn't have a conversation with a majority of that board because unless you drink their Kool-Aid they attack like swarms. You obviously have build up enough creditability where they won't swarm you, but they don't like your messages when they aren't anti-ACC. They honestly don't get their future is tied to keeping Texas happy and the second Texas wants to do something WVU, Iowa State, Kansas State, Baylor, Texas Tech are at their mercy unlike the ACC where North Carolina could have bolted at anytime and probably chose whomever they wanted to go with them. North Carolina didn't consolidate anymore power out of this ACC turmoil instead they ceded some of it to Florida State/Clemson UNLIKE Texas. Its not a matter of if, but when the Big XII blows up eventually where do the WVU fans think they will end up. The Big XII has the smallest markets of any major conference.

They own Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, less than half of Iowa,West Virginia. Texas is a huge market, but Oklahoma+Kansas+West Virginia roughly equals Virginia in total population. Big XII states in population rank Texas 2nd, Oklahoma 28th, Iowa 30th(and the University of Iowa is the flagship in Iowa), Kansas 33rd, West Virginia 38th. Their conference won't have a network because Texas will never give up the LHN for a Big XII network because they are Texas. They can spew all they want on 3rd tier rights, but the fact remains the ACC is stable and in better grounds for survival over the Big XII.

It may take 2-4 years for the ACC network to launch and they may make a couple more million a year until that time, but the gap is very little between payouts between the conferences. Plus, outside of Kansas the Big XII won't be able to generate as many NCAA credits annually in the NCAA tournament that Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, Louisville will lay the foundation for the ACC to receive each year. Finally, why the hell do the WVU fans spew on and on about their school receiving so much money. If the ACC pays out 18 million and the Big XII pays out 22 million for a couple of year do they honestly think ANYBODY cares about 4 million dollars for a couple of years. The WVU fans won't be sharing in this money, and schools get $$$ in other ways like endowments and such, but the WVU fans don't want to think objectively they just want to rant on the ACC and obsess about being passed over.

Edit: BTW, I bet the "Dude" isn't a bad guy he is just a liar for claiming to have sources when he was purely making stuff up. He is the Jayson Blair of realignment, but I doubt many people know who Jayson Blair is. He needs to be like Frankthetank, who isn't claiming to have any sources, but makes reasonable analysis based on the facts and reasonable inferences instead of saying stuff like like CONFIRMED: Miami and Florida State have applied to the Big XII for membership, and the Big XII is telling them first come first serve.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Raycom blows

one of the reasons I really started to hate the ACC was being force to watch the horribly produced ACC games when I lived in Charlotte in the 90s which preempted the quality coverage of all other games not through Raycom on at the time - felt like I was watching a 'classic' college game from the 70s instead of a live football game.

 

[Alsacs]

Raycom blows

one of the reasons I really started to hate the ACC was being force to watch the horribly produced ACC games when I lived in Charlotte in the 90s which preempted the quality coverage of all other games not through Raycom on at the time - felt like I was watching a 'classic' college game from the 70s instead of a live football game.

Hey now who can't love the horrible Steve Martin and Doc Walker duo commentating football games. I agree though about Raycom preempting CBS games during basketball season and when I want to watch a good SEC game on CBS and missing the beginning for a blowout ACC game. I had to go to Columbia, SC to watch the SU-Louisville game on CBS this past year, and have missed numerous good games because Raycom shoves ACC down your throats.

 

[Lou_C]

Hey now who can't love the horrible Steve Martin and Doc Walker duo commentating football games. I agree though about Raycom preempting CBS games during basketball season and when I want to watch a good SEC game on CBS and missing the beginning for a blowout ACC game. I had to go to Columbia, SC to watch the SU-Louisville game on CBS this past year, and have missed numerous good games because Raycom shoves ACC down your throats.

Everything you said in here is good analysis and fair as well. I don't blame WVU for being proud of their history and trying to defend their status, I just can't read their board and most of the delusions they seem to be trying to spew as facts. I mean reading their board you think the whole world believes the Earth is round, but the WVU board believes the Earth is flat, and nobody can convince them otherwise. I have no problem with defending your school and trying to do what is best for yourself, but I couldn't have a conversation with a majority of that board because unless you drink their Kool-Aid they attack like swarms. You obviously have build up enough creditability where they won't swarm you, but they don't like your messages when they aren't anti-ACC. They honestly don't get their future is tied to keeping Texas happy and the second Texas wants to do something WVU, Iowa State, Kansas State, Baylor, Texas Tech are at their mercy unlike the ACC where North Carolina could have bolted at anytime and probably chose whomever they wanted to go with them. North Carolina didn't consolidate anymore power out of this ACC turmoil instead they ceded some of it to Florida State/Clemson UNLIKE Texas. Its not a matter of if, but when the Big XII blows up eventually where do the WVU fans think they will end up. The Big XII has the smallest markets of any major conference.

They own Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, less than half of Iowa,West Virginia. Texas is a huge market, but Oklahoma+Kansas+West Virginia roughly equals Virginia in total population. Big XII states in population rank Texas 2nd, Oklahoma 28th, Iowa 30th(and the University of Iowa is the flagship in Iowa), Kansas 33rd, West Virginia 38th. Their conference won't have a network because Texas will never give up the LHN for a Big XII network because they are Texas. They can spew all they want on 3rd tier rights, but the fact remains the ACC is stable and in better grounds for survival over the Big XII.

It may take 2-4 years for the ACC network to launch and they may make a couple more million a year until that time, but the gap is very little between payouts between the conferences. Plus, outside of Kansas the Big XII won't be able to generate as many NCAA credits annually in the NCAA tournament that Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, Louisville will lay the foundation for the ACC to receive each year. Finally, why the hell do the WVU fans spew on and on about their school receiving so much money. If the ACC pays out 18 million and the Big XII pays out 22 million for a couple of year do they honestly think ANYBODY cares about 4 million dollars for a couple of years. The WVU fans won't be sharing in this money, and schools get $$$ in other ways like endowments and such, but the WVU fans don't want to think objectively they just want to rant on the ACC and obsess about being passed over.

Edit: BTW, I bet the "Dude" isn't a bad guy he is just a liar for claiming to have sources when he was purely making stuff up. He is the Jayson Blair of realignment, but I doubt many people know who Jayson Blair is. He needs to be like Frankthetank, who isn't claiming to have any sources, but makes reasonable analysis based on the facts and reasonable inferences instead of saying stuff like like CONFIRMED: Miami and Florida State have applied to the Big XII for membership, and the Big XII is telling them first come first serve.

Yeah, I still have a lot of issues and concerns with the ACC, but I like the long-term outlook of the ACC versus the Big 12. The ACC's main problem - football performance - can at least theoretically be fixed. And in fact it could be fixed in any given year. All the pieces are there. It literally needs 2-5 football games to go the other way in a given year to flip the script. Even last year, I'm glad FSU beat Clemson in a hell of a game, but if Clemson wins that game they are in the national championship discussion until the final week of the season. And that's in a bad ACC year.

The Big 12, they CAN'T change their shortcomings in short order...their population, their lack of brands outside their top 2, their 10-team round robin, the wierd Texas dynamic, their lack of history.

Is the Big 12 better than the ACC right now? I wouldn't argue with someone that wanted to say that, not a bit. They've really done quite nicely in football recently, with OSU, Baylor and TCU at 100-year highs, and ISU and TT being above historical watermarks. I admire what some of those schools have been able to do, while ACC schools with more resources wallow in mediocrity going on decades.

But long-term, I take the ACC's upside all day long. They've got the population, the media markets, and most importantly the athletes. Eventually that's going to show out.

The problem I see coming for the Big 12 is that they are in kind of a blessed period right now where Texas has been pretty down, and OU is a couple ticks off their best. When those schools are back in business, yes, they are national championship contenders annually. But when they start pinning the losses on the TT, Baylor, ISUs of the world, those programs are going to slip right back down into nothingness. That round robin is going to kill them when those second-level schools stop getting those semi-regular wins/close losses they've had against Texas and OU. Nobody in the Big 12 outside of TX and OU has any chance to recruit at the level required to regularly challenge for national titles.

The ACC has three that have proven they can recruit at an elite level (FSU, Clemson, Miami) and at least one more that is very easy to see recruiting at an elite level (UNC). The Virginia schools could also at least have the pieces for one of them to do so as well.

I just don't see how anyone in the Big 12 outside of OU and TX can ever be expected to put together a string of top 10 recruiting classes. Eventually the talent the ACC accumulates has got to show out.

 

[BlazeOrange]

(if the ACC was a company, it would probably make sense to buy Raycom Sports to get back the ACC rights as well to leverage their existing infrastructure.)

Why can't this be done? If not the ACC directly, ESPN could also assimiliate Raycom to form whatever parts fit the format of the startup network.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah, I still have a lot of issues and concerns with the ACC, but I like the long-term outlook of the ACC versus the Big 12. The ACC's main problem - football performance - can at least theoretically be fixed. And in fact it could be fixed in any given year. All the pieces are there. It literally needs 2-5 football games to go the other way in a given year to flip the script. Even last year, I'm glad FSU beat Clemson in a hell of a game, but if Clemson wins that game they are in the national championship discussion until the final week of the season. And that's in a bad ACC year.

The Big 12, they CAN'T change their shortcomings in short order...their population, their lack of brands outside their top 2, their 10-team round robin, the wierd Texas dynamic, their lack of history.

Is the Big 12 better than the ACC right now? I wouldn't argue with someone that wanted to say that, not a bit. They've really done quite nicely in football recently, with OSU, Baylor and TCU at 100-year highs, and ISU and TT being above historical watermarks. I admire what some of those schools have been able to do, while ACC schools with more resources wallow in mediocrity going on decades.

But long-term, I take the ACC's upside all day long. They've got the population, the media markets, and most importantly the athletes. Eventually that's going to show out.

The problem I see coming for the Big 12 is that they are in kind of a blessed period right now where Texas has been pretty down, and OU is a couple ticks off their best. When those schools are back in business, yes, they are national championship contenders annually. But when they start pinning the losses on the TT, Baylor, ISUs of the world, those programs are going to slip right back down into nothingness. That round robin is going to kill them when those second-level schools stop getting those semi-regular wins/close losses they've had against Texas and OU. Nobody in the Big 12 outside of TX and OU has any chance to recruit at the level required to regularly challenge for national titles.

The ACC has three that have proven they can recruit at an elite level (FSU, Clemson, Miami) and at least one more that is very easy to see recruiting at an elite level (UNC). The Virginia schools could also at least have the pieces for one of them to do so as well.

I just don't see how anyone in the Big 12 outside of OU and TX can ever be expected to put together a string of top 10 recruiting classes. Eventually the talent the ACC accumulates has got to show out.

+1 you hit the nails on the head.

The underbelly of the ACC has WAY MORE potential than the underbelly for the Big XII. The WVU fans can be proud of the Big XII as much as they want with merit, but the trashing of the ACC is not helping them one bit. The Big XII is a ticking a timebomb, and eventually it will blow up. The ACC will need another school eventually and declaring war on the ACC when they are a good future candidate does them no good. If they would just about the ACC and let it go then maybe they would be a future candidate for ACC expansion. Right now I think UConn has a better chance of being in the ACC than WVU and its all because of their online fanbase acting like crazy scorned ex-lovers of the ACC.

 

[baggerbob]

Just for a quick piece of history 1991-2003, when Miami, Virginia Tech in Big East, Florida State in ACC. Comparison of current ACC minus Maryland, adding Louisville, current SEC. Numbers for ACC first, SEC second, Top 25 [ 77-74], Top 20 [59-59], Top 16 [42-53], Top 15 [40-50], Top 10 [26-31], Top 6 [22-15], Top 5 [19-15], Top 3 [13-8], RU [5-2], NC [4-3] . In most of the comparisons the ACC comes out ahead. Miami, Boston College were hurt by the move to the ACC, by loss of their rivalry's that were built in the Big East. In Virginia Tech's case they had relationship's with many of the ACC school's especially Virginia. Adding Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame should re-energize all the previous Big East rivalry's, and help all the ACC schools to get back to where they were.