ACC Tourney and its many potential matchups

JeremyCuse

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
20,316
Like
17,406
Would be nice if someone from the ACC could come out and clarify what the potential matchups are and the tiebreakers, as Quint noted its unclear if the tiebreakers have changed based on the change in the ACC format. The current potential matchups going around have UVA as the #1 obviously and then if ND wins, Duke is the #2 based on their win over UVA and because SU and ND both lost to UVA it goes to head to head which would make ND the three. and use the 4. The variation where UNC wins makes a lot less sense. Somehow they become the 2 seed which I can't figure out how as SU, Duke and UNC would all be tied with 2-2 records and SU has the head to head wins over both UNC and Duke so how is UNC the 2 seed? Bizarre.
 

upperdeck

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
12,840
Like
8,363
do they compare head to head first when tied or record vs top team first? or do they still use total goals allowed?
 
Last edited:

orange79

Internet Sleuth
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
23,335
Like
48,538
HTH is the first tie-breaker. After that, record vs. next-highest team.

1. Head-to-head Conference game results among the tied teams. (a) If three or more teams are tied, the combined record of conference games among the tied teams involved will be compiled. Ties will be broken based on winning percentage of the combined conference records, and the higher winning percentage shall prevail, even if the number of games played against the team or group is unequal. (b) In the case of a three or more team tie, if procedure (a) reduces the tie by at least one team, procedure (1) will be followed, comparing only the remaining tied teams’ conference records. Procedures (2)-(5) will only be used if the tie cannot be reduced by at least one team in procedure (1).

2. Record versus team(s) occupying the higher position in the standings (or in case of a tie for first place, the next highest in the regular-season standings and continuing down through the standings until one team gains an advantage). When arriving at another pair of tied teams while comparing records, use each team’s record against the collective tied teams as a group (prior to their own tie-breaking procedures), rather than the performance against the individual tied teams. In the case of a three or more team tie, if procedure (2) reduces the tie by at least one team, procedure (1) will be followed, comparing only the remaining tied teams’ conference records. Procedures (3)-(5) will only be used if the tie cannot be reduced by at least one team in procedure (2).

3. Goals allowed in Conference games among the tied teams.

4. Goal differential in Conference games only (goals for, minus goals against among the tied teams).

5. Blind draw.
 

MD Cuse Fan

Walk On
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
203
Like
190
So basically Cuse has to turn around and play UNC again, at their home after just beating them there.?
The ACC tournament has always been a great example in redundancy.
 

orange79

Internet Sleuth
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
23,335
Like
48,538
So basically Cuse has to turn around and play UNC again, at their home after just beating them there.?
The ACC tournament has always been a great example in redundancy.
That's what happens when you have a 5 team "conference". :rolleyes:
 

Hoo's That

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,926
Like
10,868
So basically Cuse has to turn around and play UNC again, at their home after just beating them there.?
The ACC tournament has always been a great example in redundancy.
1. I've always hated the ACC tournament. When it was 4 teams, I always viewed it as giving 2 teams losses when they could least afford them, neutral for the 2nd place team (1 win, 1 loss), and a minor benefit for the winner.

2. It just the "unluck of the draw" that SU has to play UNC in Chapel Hole twice. The venue was announced way before the season began. I would anticipate that next year it will either be in the Dome (assuming it's playable there) or at ND. It could very well work out that someone has to play the host on the road twice.
 

OrangeXtreme

The Mayor of Dewitt
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
102,516
Like
127,933
1. I've always hated the ACC tournament. When it was 4 teams, I always viewed it as giving 2 teams losses when they could least afford them, neutral for the 2nd place team (1 win, 1 loss), and a minor benefit for the winner.

2. It just the "unluck of the draw" that SU has to play UNC in Chapel Hole twice. The venue was announced way before the season began. I would anticipate that next year it will either be in the Dome (assuming it's playable there) or at ND. It could very well work out that someone has to play the host on the road twice.
ND next.
 

MD Cuse Fan

Walk On
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
203
Like
190
1. I've always hated the ACC tournament. When it was 4 teams, I always viewed it as giving 2 teams losses when they could least afford them, neutral for the 2nd place team (1 win, 1 loss), and a minor benefit for the winner.

2. It just the "unluck of the draw" that SU has to play UNC in Chapel Hole twice. The venue was announced way before the season began. I would anticipate that next year it will either be in the Dome (assuming it's playable there) or at ND. It could very well work out that someone has to play the host on the road twice.
1. You're exactly right!
2. Again you are correct just kind of sucks the way it worked out here. I would always rather play a team I lost to than have to beat a team again.
 

wvlax

Scout Team
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
490
Like
178
Unofficially, here are Anish Shroff’s calculations.

If UNC wins the ACC seeds are:
1. Virginia
2. North Carolina
3. Syracuse
4. Duke
5. Notre Dame

If ND wins:
1. Virginia
2. Duke
3. Notre Dame
4. Syracuse
5. North Carolina
So either way, it'll be 'Cuse vs. Carolina and Duke vs. Notre Dame.
 

ivorytower

2nd String
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
522
Like
528
UNC has upside going forward. Good young talent and diversified offense.

If UNC can beat ND this weekend then Cuse could potentially host ACC final if they won rematch as I believe Duke would likely beat ND in a #4/5 game and then #1 UVA again.

Slow starts obviously not preferred but Cuse plays from behind with confidence, suggests strong mental makeup , faith in abilities, good conditioning and in game adjustments. Credit to players but also staff for such.

Having said that, playing sixty minutes is best path to a Final Four.
 

raf4488

Starter
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,697
Like
3,046
Unofficially, here are Anish Shroff’s calculations.

If UNC wins the ACC seeds are:
1. Virginia
2. North Carolina
3. Syracuse
4. Duke
5. Notre Dame

If ND wins:
1. Virginia
2. Duke
3. Notre Dame
4. Syracuse
5. North Carolina
So either way, it'll be 'Cuse vs. Carolina and Duke vs. Notre Dame.
Not that it matters much, but I don't understand the first scenario. If UNC wins, shouldn't it be:

1. Virginia 3-1
2. Syracuse 2-2 (2-0 vs. UNC/Duke)
3. North Carolina 2-2 (1-1 vs. Duke/SU)
4. Duke 2-2 (0-2 vs. UNC/SU)
5. Notre Dame 1-3
 

JeremyCuse

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
20,316
Like
17,406
Not that it matters much, but I don't understand the first scenario. If UNC wins, shouldn't it be:

1. Virginia 3-1
2. Syracuse 2-2 (2-0 vs. UNC/Duke)
3. North Carolina 2-2 (1-1 vs. Duke/SU)
4. Duke 2-2 (0-2 vs. UNC/SU)
5. Notre Dame 1-3
That was my point as well, there must be some angle or path were missing. It might be that if everyone is tied at 2-2 the initial tie-breaks is not head to head if its three times tied. Still I don't get it.
 

orange79

Internet Sleuth
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
23,335
Like
48,538
Thanks, I did see that, and it would appear that based on that scenario SU should be the #2 seed if UNC wins Sat. I don't get how UNC would be the 2.
Agreed. We play UNC no matter what, but I don't see how they can be the 2 seed.
 

Zack80

Walk On
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
247
Like
107
1. I've always hated the ACC tournament. When it was 4 teams, I always viewed it as giving 2 teams losses when they could least afford them, neutral for the 2nd place team (1 win, 1 loss), and a minor benefit for the winner.
I have doubts about this being right.
The four ACC teams back then were usually pretty highly ranked, and had pretty high RPIs.
Losing to a top team didn't hurt that much, and playing another top team was a large boost to the SOS.
It certainly wasn't neutral for the 2nd place team, 1 win against a top team along with a loss to a top team was usually a plus. (Adding 2 top teams was a big plus for the SOS.) Perhaps this would only detrimental if your team was in the running for the #1 seed in the NCAA tmt.

In the end, what did you care if two from Duke, UNC or UMd were the 2 teams to pick up losses, all you cared about was UVa. Friday night in the ACC tmt gave UVa another quality opponent on their schedule.
 

Top Bottom