After the 1st Game, I made a Post That Cr@pped on Dion | Syracusefan.com

After the 1st Game, I made a Post That Cr@pped on Dion

Orangemen

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And tonight is a perfect example of why he frustrates me.

This kid could be an absolute stud. He's got team leader of a FF team talent. But he just goes off script, and plays 1 on 5 way too much.

I'm not anti-Dion. I would love it if he toned down the hot dog side of his game, and focused on the aspects of his game that make him a star. I'm down on him becuase I wonder if he'll ever do that while at SU.

I give Triche a pass, because I think he has limitations that DW does not. Triche will never play in the NBA (IMO), and never be a 1st or 2nd team AA. He can be a very effective player for us, and do a lot of great things, but his best does not match DW's best. Unfortunately, the dumb plays that DW makes means Triche's typical play exceeds DW's typical play.
 

OrangeinBoston

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Were you watching last night? He was one of the few who played really well yesterday. And, I have not before been a big fan of his.
 

arbitragegls

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...i am not in total agreement...compare Dion to MCW and the higher upside is MCW...a lot depends on parameters of team...and JB's teams play as a team...even Melo wasn't out there scoring 25 points a game...same as coach K who does not allow one player to dominate all...Waiters is a ME player and will always be...may be his spot is to come in at critical times in game when we need one guy to take over...that is his game...and that doesnt win games for 40 minutes.

Triche, I believe, has lots of talent but is too willing to defer to other players...that is why in first exhibition game JB said "Triche was aggressive, assertive, and took the shots...11 in one game...sometimes it would take a whole lot of games for him to do that..." What I do not understand is how he scores 50 points in summer league against good talent...willing to take shot but doesnt shoot on this team. His defference to others really is costing the team and Triche the ability to put it all together.

We need Waiters and Triche to find a balance from its me to i defer to everyone...if they find that balance watch out!
 

Orangemen

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Were you watching last night? He was one of the few who played really well yesterday. And, I have not before been a big fan of his.
I may not have stated it well, but the gist was that last night he displayed how good he can be. He's showed flashes out there before as well. He just goes off script too much.

He was fantastic out there during stretches.

If he played that way all the time, he would be an All BE player this year.
 

Gotothehole

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So Funny Dion has a great game passing, scoring, and playing D and you find fault with the kid? You should be talking about BT who looks lost. Dion is doing what 2 should do be aggressive. I am sorry that he has too much hotdog in his game for you. I will take any day.
 

SoBristol

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Triche looked pretty good in the last segment of the game (after it was already in the bag), making a shot, finishing on a good assist from Scoop, hustling. Not so much in his earlier segments -- and it was Dion with MCW when we made the run.

BT is a good, solid player but seems unlikely he will suddenly break out after two years as a starter.

There is more chance that Dion will meld with the team (attitude seems much better), than there is that BT will add a new dimension at this stage.
 

orange03

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It should be Dion's job to lose. Triche for whatever reason has been handed the starting gig since he's been here. I know it's more important who finishes the game, but I just don't get why Triche automatically earns the job.
 

jimsonjunction

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I thought Dion had a good game as well, and I don't think you can give Triche a pass because he's less physically talented. It's not by much and he is a junior now. He needs to play to his strengths. Dion showed me a lot on the defensive side. I think one of the most telling things, and why I enjoy watching Dion play, is that he's so active. You always know where he is. He's always sniffing out the ball. He was probably the only player I watched last night who I can say went 100% every second he was out there. Not to knock Triche too bad, but sometimes he seems invisible. That never happens with Dion.
 

AZOrange

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And tonight is a perfect example of why he frustrates me.

This kid could be an absolute stud. He's got team leader of a FF team talent. But he just goes off script, and plays 1 on 5 way too much.

I'm not anti-Dion. I would love it if he toned down the hot dog side of his game, and focused on the aspects of his game that make him a star. I'm down on him becuase I wonder if he'll ever do that while at SU.

I give Triche a pass, because I think he has limitations that DW does not. Triche will never play in the NBA (IMO), and never be a 1st or 2nd team AA. He can be a very effective player for us, and do a lot of great things, but his best does not match DW's best. Unfortunately, the dumb plays that DW makes means Triche's typical play exceeds DW's typical play.
Last night was the first time that I said to myself (and my 18 month old) that Dion should be starting. His effort was so much better than Scoop/Triche for whatever reason. I honestly liked the MCW-Waiters backcourt much much better last night (and they seemed to like each other which is nice).
 

realorange

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Dion is the lighting rod on this team. Just read the "I don't like" or "do like" threads about him. Neither side seems to be able to understand the other.

Attitude--Dion is sure of himself to his proponents. He is arrogant and a hot dog to his detractors.

Ability--He's the best guard we have or he is an accident waiting to happen depending on which side you are on.

Value to the team--he can be our clutch guy or he can be an internal disruption.

A great part of the differing opinions is how Dion carries himself. If he had the demeanor of almost anyone else on the team, would he draw as much commentary? If he just showed what he is capable of without grandstanding after a great play or looking like he was sucking on lemon after he didn't get a call he felt he should, how much different would everyone react to him?

Talented? Certainly.

Would like to bring it to our attention with with his body language? You bet.

Willing to fit his talent into a team approach? Remains to be seen.
 

Garbs

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It should be Dion's job to lose. Triche for whatever reason has been handed the starting gig since he's been here. I know it's more important who finishes the game, but I just don't get why Triche automatically earns the job.

I am fine leaving it the way it is but if Triche continues to look lost JB has to consider starting Dion. Dion is working hard because he wants to start, and you have to reward him if he continues to improve. Plus it is not good for recruits if they see no matter how hard they work or how much better they get they will stay on the bench
 

OttoMets

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I don't think you can give Triche a pass because he's less physically talented. It's not by much and he is a junior now. He needs to play to his strengths.

And I don't know why doesn't. There was a play in the first half where Triche started out just left of the key and his defender was clearly cheating toward Triche's right side. Instead of going left, Triche went right with the defender, found the lane clogged, and threw up one of those dreadful half-hearted runners that never get ten feet in the air and always draw solid front-rim.

I'm sitting upstairs thinking "Is it really common knowledge that Triche can't go left? If so, why is he forcing such a bad shot going to his right when he's defended?" Maybe ten minutes later, Triche has the ball on the right wing, makes a nice move going left, splits the defense, and finishes a pretty lay-up with the left hand. My face is something along the lines of (well, we don't seem to have an icon for that - let's just say I was pleasantly surprised).

I can't count the number of times last year and in the two fake games this fall that Triche has been bottled up after refusing to go left. Yet it looks like he's more than capable of doing it. He's a real head-scratcher. I still think he's got all the skills in the world, but the times that he puts them together in real game action are few and far between.

Perhaps he'll get more minutes when the real games begin and he'll finally get consistent. I'm really hoping so, but not counting on it.
 

Dcuse

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[

Trust me Orangemen, you will not like Dion no matter what he does. If you didn't like him last night,you never will. You have a pre-conceived notion of him that others here have that you can't let go of.
 

arbitragegls

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From CBS sports:

Boeheim, G Waiters disagree
Coach Jim Boeheim said G Dion Waiters has been great defensively in practice but against Saint Rose he was just ordinary. Waiters didn’t agree. “No, I played defense,” Waiters said is response to his coach’s comments. “They didn’t do anything. The guy before the half just threw the shot up. There was nothing I could do. I can play defense.” Orange RapidReports

Waiters will never be a team guy...will never listen to criticism and take oppty to get better cause he is the best...

Also, Triche started game and the team went out to a commanding lead and was taken out...then team lost lead...Triche did not give up a 3 pt shot all game; he also was 3-5 shooting...maybe he should have taken 10 shots...and be more assertive...but lost...not true
 

orange03

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From CBS sports:

Boeheim, G Waiters disagree
Coach Jim Boeheim said G Dion Waiters has been great defensively in practice but against Saint Rose he was just ordinary. Waiters didn’t agree. “No, I played defense,” Waiters said is response to his coach’s comments. “They didn’t do anything. The guy before the half just threw the shot up. There was nothing I could do. I can play defense.” Orange RapidReports

Waiters will never be a team guy...will never listen to criticism and take oppty to get better cause he is the best...

Also, Triche started game and the team went out to a commanding lead and was taken out...then team lost lead...Triche did not give up a 3 pt shot all game; he also was 3-5 shooting...maybe he should have taken 10 shots...and be more assertive...but lost...not true

Boeheim does a lot of things right, but he has a bad habit of making 1 or 2 kids his whipping boy, while others seemingly get to skate-- at least publicly . It's almost like JB is looking for a reason to keep Triche in the lineup.
 

OttoMets

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Waiters gave up two threes in the first half. He was sleepwalking for both of them, and Boeheim told him so. He played better in the second half.

Triche played poorly until garbage time.
 

OttoMets

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Boeheim does a lot of things right, but he has a bad habit of making 1 or 2 kids his whipping boy, while others seemingly get to skate-- at least publicly . It's almost like JB is looking for a reason to keep Triche in the lineup.

I don't know about the bold claim, but hopefully he knows what he's doing with the scapegoat thing. He's been known to misjudge the capacity of certain players to stand up to the criticism - some Kueth Duanys can take it, but some Paul Harrises cannot. Hopefully Waiters falls into the former category.

(I hated that Boeheim piled on with Harris while Flynn and Devendorf - who did no small number of knuckleheaded and selfish things themselves - seemed to publicly skate by. It was nice to see Harris at the game last night; hopefully he's doing well. He was badly misused here.)
 

orange03

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I don't know about the bold claim, but hopefully he knows what he's doing with the scapegoat thing. He's been known to misjudge the capacity of certain players to stand up to the criticism - some Kueth Duanys can take it, but some Paul Harrises cannot. Hopefully Waiters falls into the former category.

(I hated that Boeheim piled on with Harris while Flynn and Devendorf - who did no small number of knuckleheaded and selfish things themselves - seemed to publicly skate by. It was nice to see Harris at the game last night; hopefully he's doing well. He was badly misused here.)

I know I'm wrong, but it's hard not to think that sometimes. Agree with Harris, he obviously wasn't a guy that could take criticism all that well--Waiters looks to be in the same boat. Not to say he or those kids shouldn't be coached, but hard not to get upset when you feel your the fall guy all the time.
 

AZOrange

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I don't know about the bold claim, but hopefully he knows what he's doing with the scapegoat thing. He's been known to misjudge the capacity of certain players to stand up to the criticism - some Kueth Duanys can take it, but some Paul Harrises cannot. Hopefully Waiters falls into the former category.

(I hated that Boeheim piled on with Harris while Flynn and Devendorf - who did no small number of knuckleheaded and selfish things themselves - seemed to publicly skate by. It was nice to see Harris at the game last night; hopefully he's doing well. He was badly misused here.)
Badly misused? You ever think some of that was Paul's issues (like the vast majority of it). We see, what, 5% of everything that happens in the program?
 

NovaOrange

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What are Triche's strengths again? Someone remind me...
Passing it to the post...if he doesn't score 12 a game he has zero business this year starting at SG we have to much talent to play the waiting game for him to show he can be THE GUY
 

rrlbees

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Bees care to comment?

Just saw this. Comment on what? Sorry, I missed the game and didn't go to the Dome due to having to go back into work. Saw the last 4- 5 mins is all, although I followed it a bit on the board here while working. Looking at the box score it seems like MCW did a nice job but it seems we didn't rebound too well as a team although Melo and Keita were fine based on minutes played so it must be the F's and G's didn't rebound much. Is that what you wanted?
 

rrlbees

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Passing it to the post...if he doesn't score 12 a game he has zero business this year starting at SG we have to much talent to play the waiting game for him to show he can be THE GUY

I thought KJo and Scoop were suppose to be THE GUY(s) this year. I'm sure he will average 12ppg.
 

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