Alec Baldwin shooting accident

[creatorsgam]

I don’t understand how this can happen. Then again, I don’t know much about blanks or the process used on a set. Tragic.

Sheriff: Baldwin fired shot on movie set that killed woman :: WRAL.com

Authorities are investigating after confirming that a prop firearm discharged by actor Alec Baldwin, while producing and starring in a Western movie, killed the cinematographer and wounded the director.

www.wral.com

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I don’t understand how this can happen. Then again, I don’t know much about blanks or the process used on a set. Tragic.

Sheriff: Baldwin fired shot on movie set that killed woman :: WRAL.com

Authorities are investigating after confirming that a prop firearm discharged by actor Alec Baldwin, while producing and starring in a Western movie, killed the cinematographer and wounded the director.

www.wral.com

I think that was a Columbo episode

 

[Toga]

 

[creatorsgam]

I think that was a Columbo episode

Sounds about right.

 

[Jables]

I think that was a Columbo episode

Maybe the episode where Patrick Mcgoohan rigged the cannon at the military school.

 

[David332]

How has he not been charged? Last I checked manslaughter was a strict liability (no intent needed) crime.

 

[Toga]

Alec Baldwin 'Rust' Head Gun Handler Had Doubts About Experience Level

The woman responsible for handling weapons on the set of Alec Baldwin's "Rust" had only recently taken on a gig as a head armorer, and shared she had real doubts about doing the job.

www.tmz.com

 

[JustPherU]

How has he not been charged? Last I checked manslaughter was a strict liability (no intent needed) crime.

Laws could be different in other states.

 

[Briancuse]

How has he not been charged? Last I checked manslaughter was a strict liability (no intent needed) crime.

He was handed the gun and was told it was safe. This wasn't his fault.

 

[David332]

He was handed the gun and was told it was safe. This wasn't his fault.

I’m not familiar with New Mexico penal code but I did major in Criminal Justice. Criminal negligence is not negated by “someone else handed me the gun” no more than getting a DWI and claiming “someone spiked my drink”. A strict liability crime only requires actus reus (the act), not mens rea (the intent). In NYS Baldwin could have been charged with criminally negligent homicide. It can be argued that Baldwin was reckless, inattentive, or careless.

 

[Briancuse]

I’m not familiar with New Mexico penal code but I did major in Criminal Justice. Criminal negligence is not negated by “someone else handed me the gun” no more than getting a DWI and claiming “someone spiked my drink”. A strict liability crime only requires actus reus (the act), not mens rea (the intent). In NYS Baldwin could have been charged with criminally negligent homicide. It can be argued that Baldwin was reckless, inattentive, or careless.

I don't know how you factor in acting here. He was required to fire a gun for his role. According to people who have worked with Baldwin they have all said he is the most careful person in the business when it comes to fire arms. This was a horrible accident.

 

[David332]

I don't know how you factor in acting here. He was required to fire a gun for his role. According to people who have worked with Baldwin they have all said he is the most careful person in the business when it comes to fire arms. This was a horrible accident.

He clearly isn’t though; he accidentally shot two people, killing one. He’s obviously not that careful. If he was as careful as his colleagues assert than he would have checked the gun before pointing it towards someone and pulling the trigger. In NYS he would be having significant legal issues right now. Personally, though I’m not an actor, I would never blindly trust ANYONE in this situation. If I was an actor, I would have checked the gun first.

 

[Mareiniss]

I see it as similar to the driver of a car asking a passenger to check for oncoming traffic, and not looking him/herself. It's OK to ask for help, but it's negligent not to look both ways yourself - just as it was negligent for Baldwin to blindly trust whoever handed him the gun and said it was "cold."

And as a producer of the film, it seems that Baldwin hired people who were not especially trustworthy:

Rust shooting: Film crew ‘used Alec Baldwin’s gun for live target practice’

Members of the film crew working on the set where a cinematographer was shot dead by the actor Alec Baldwin are reported to have been using the gun involved f

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[Trueblue25]

I see it as similar to the driver of a car asking a passenger to check for oncoming traffic, and not looking him/herself. It's OK to ask for help, but it's negligent not to look both ways yourself - just as it was negligent for Baldwin to blindly trust whoever handed him the gun and said it was "cold."

And as a producer of the film, it seems that Baldwin hired people who were not especially trustworthy:

Rust shooting: Film crew ‘used Alec Baldwin’s gun for live target practice’

Members of the film crew working on the set where a cinematographer was shot dead by the actor Alec Baldwin are reported to have been using the gun involved f

www.thetimes.co.uk

I mean they hire/pay people to provide safe props to the actors so they don’t need to rely on actors to check this stuff. I don’t know how you (general, not personally) blame Baldwin here.

 

[David332]

All I’m saying is this, if no one is criminally responsible for this than apparently this is the perfect crime in New Mexico. Someone could easily get away with murder under the guise of an oops in the future on a movie set. Feels like an episode out of Monk!

 

[DoubleDee]

I dislike the term prop gun. More like gun used as a prop?

 

[Mareiniss]

I mean they hire/pay people to provide safe props to the actors so they don’t need to rely on actors to check this stuff. I don’t know how you (general, not personally) blame Baldwin here.

I don't think Baldwin intended to hurt anyone, but he was careless. He broke several golden rules of gun safety by pointing the weapon at the cinematographer, instead of waiting for her and other crew members to move to a safe location.

12 Golden Rules of Gun Safety | Washington Gun Law

www.washingtongunlaw.com

Keep in mind that this was a gun that had recently misfired at least twice during filming.

 

[Cusefan0307]

When I first heard about this I couldn't believe they actually use real guns to tape moves and tv shows still. Like how wasn't this changed decades ago?

 

[Briancuse]

He clearly isn’t though; he accidentally shot two people, killing one. He’s obviously not that careful. If he was as careful as his colleagues assert than he would have checked the gun before pointing it towards someone and pulling the trigger. In NYS he would be having significant legal issues right now. Personally, though I’m not an actor, I would never blindly trust ANYONE in this situation. If I was an actor, I would have checked the gun first.

Ive never worked on a movie set or even handled a gun. But from all accounts Baldwin was given the gun and told it was safe. I just don't think. It's his fault.

 

[Fat tire 13]

When I first heard about this I couldn't believe they actually use real guns to tape moves and tv shows still. Like how wasn't this changed decades ago?

I had the exact same thought. Why would they ever have a gun on set with harmful ammo in it? With today's special effects, it seems like a completely unnecessary risk

Yes, it should have been changed decades ago when it happened to Brandon Lee

 

[Briancuse]

I had the exact same thought. Why would they ever have a gun on set with harmful ammo in it? With today's special effects, it seems like a completely unnecessary risk

Yes, it should have been changed decades ago when it happened to Brandon Lee

It sounds like this was a low budget film that cut a lot of corners and was doomed from the start. Whoever is in charge is going to be paying of lawsuits for many years.

 

[RF2044]

All I’m saying is this, if no one is criminally responsible for this than apparently this is the perfect crime in New Mexico. Someone could easily get away with murder under the guise of an oops in the future on a movie set. Feels like an episode out of Monk!

I don't see how you can make this claim. It sounds like the movie set had a master armorer and an assistant armorer on set, who certified that the gun was not loaded with live rounds. He wasn't "careless" about pointing it at them, they were filming him a certain way that put the two people who got shot in the line of fire, because they were filming.

It also sounds like Baldwin was very careful handling the weapon before they began shooting, and only discharged it in accordance with what was required for the scene.

It was a horrible tragedy, for both the shooter and the woman he killed and her family.

What you're describing would require a nearly impossible chain of events. I.E, the armorer wants to murder someone, and somehow engineers the scene so that the unknowing actor is "directed' to point the gun at the intended target, that the target gets fatally struck, etc. Unfathomable dominoes would have to topple in order for those circumstances to come to fruition.

 

[David332]

I don't see how you can make this claim. It sounds like the movie set had a master armorer and an assistant armorer on set, who certified that the gun was not loaded with live rounds. He wasn't "careless" about pointing it at them, they were filming him a certain way that put the two people who got shot in the line of fire, because they were filming.

It also sounds like Baldwin was very careful handling the weapon before they began shooting, and only discharged it in accordance with what was required for the scene.

It was a horrible tragedy, for both the shooter and the woman he killed and her family.

What you're describing would require a nearly impossible chain of events. I.E, the armorer wants to murder someone, and somehow engineers the scene so that the unknowing actor is "directed' to point the gun at the intended target, that the target gets fatally struck, etc. Unfathomable dominoes would have to topple in order for those circumstances to come to fruition.

“Unfathomable dominoes”, as in someone would have to want to kill someone and then just slip in live rounds? It’s not exactly as if an Illuminati conspiracy would need to take place. A director for example could easily do it. Strict liability crimes exist for a reason.

 

[Toga]

“Unfathomable dominoes”, as in someone would have to want to kill someone and then just slip in live rounds? It’s not exactly as if an Illuminati conspiracy would need to take place. A director for example could easily do it. Strict liability crimes exist for a reason.

The armorer admitted in a podcast that she felt unready for her job in the only prior film she served. Had to call her father (professional armorer) on how to load a blank. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one.

 

[David332]

The armorer admitted in a podcast that she felt unready for her job in the only prior film she served. Had to call her father (professional armorer) on how to load a blank. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one.

The argument that I am making is simple and reasonable; any person, including an actor or actress, should check a firearm over to ensure that there are no live rounds present before pointing it at another person and pulling the trigger. This is a reasonable argument.

Blanks and live ammunition are easy to discern from one another because of the bullet point. I do not think that Baldwin or anyone else did this on purpose. I do however think it was grossly negligent on Baldwin’s behalf. I say it now, just as I would if the victim was a family member of mine. Because I am consistent.