An observation on rosters

billsin01

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#1
So I'm not sure how enlightened this observation is, but I was thinking about the different eras of syracuse basketball and what the key factors for success have been in those stretches. And, for this program at least, up through the end of the GMac era, we were largely built on the backs of stars who stayed and were huge pieces of teams for four years (or at least contributed early and still stayed four years).

Obviously that's the case in the 80s through mid-90s but even in the post-sanction era in the 90s you had Hart/Burgan/Etan/Damone Brown/Blackwell/Shumpert/Wallace, etc. all exhausting their eligibility up through the early 2000s. I would suggest that it's a different era once melo arrives but even after he leaves as a frosh, Hak/GMac/Nichols/Roberts/Watkins/Forth/Pace all stayed and contributed significantly (with varying levels of success) for four years.

But then you get into the second golden age of Syracuse hoops from 08/9 through 13/14 and you see a ton of early departures -- Flynn, Greene, Grant, Ennis ... the list goes on -- and we tend to think of these guys as being THE guys on those teams. But to be fair, there are still a ton of four/five year players who made huge contributions and basically served as the stewards of the program.

Fair, Onuaku, Rautins, Jackson, Joseph and Devo all played four years and all were considered among the best players in the league at least at some point in that stretch. Triche, Southerland, Keita, and Scoop were clearly complimentary pieces but all three played key roles on really good teams and stayed for four years.

In those six seasons, you had six players who were among the best in the league at some point and another four who were really solid complimentary pieces. All were four-year players. (obviously you also had a bunch or really good young players as well).

Compare that to the era to what we've seen the past four seasons. The number of guys to play four years and actually put together a really good season at some point: 2 (G and Christmas). Number of guys to play at least four years and actually contribute to some success in a meaningful way? 2 (Roberson and Cooney).

So while we've still had really good young talent in that stretch (McCullough, Battle, Lydon, Richardson) we just have had very few four-year guys.

So after a long, rambling post, my point is this: I'm excited about Carey and Goodine and I'm disappointed with Bazely's decision, but really I'm just hoping a couple years from now we're talking fondly (even if we crush them because of their inevitable weaknesses) about the contributions of Hughes, Howard Washington, Dolezaj, Sidibe, Chuckwu, Howard, Braswell and Osun. That feels like it's every bit as important as landing some big names (who will inevitably leave early) in terms of getting this program back on track. It's at least worth watching.
 

GooseMutt

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Oct 13, 2016
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#2
Yes maybe we are rotating back to a solid foundation of 4 year guys with 4 and 5 star guys coming and going each year
 

orangehomer

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#5
So I'm not sure how enlightened this observation is, but I was thinking about the different eras of syracuse basketball and what the key factors for success have been in those stretches. And, for this program at least, up through the end of the GMac era, we were largely built on the backs of stars who stayed and were huge pieces of teams for four years (or at least contributed early and still stayed four years).

Obviously that's the case in the 80s through mid-90s but even in the post-sanction era in the 90s you had Hart/Burgan/Etan/Damone Brown/Blackwell/Shumpert/Wallace, etc. all exhausting their eligibility up through the early 2000s. I would suggest that it's a different era once melo arrives but even after he leaves as a frosh, Hak/GMac/Nichols/Roberts/Watkins/Forth/Pace all stayed and contributed significantly (with varying levels of success) for four years.

But then you get into the second golden age of Syracuse hoops from 08/9 through 13/14 and you see a ton of early departures -- Flynn, Greene, Grant, Ennis ... the list goes on -- and we tend to think of these guys as being THE guys on those teams. But to be fair, there are still a ton of four/five year players who made huge contributions and basically served as the stewards of the program.

Fair, Onuaku, Rautins, Jackson, Joseph and Devo all played four years and all were considered among the best players in the league at least at some point in that stretch. Triche, Southerland, Keita, and Scoop were clearly complimentary pieces but all three played key roles on really good teams and stayed for four years.

In those six seasons, you had six players who were among the best in the league at some point and another four who were really solid complimentary pieces. All were four-year players. (obviously you also had a bunch or really good young players as well).

Compare that to the era to what we've seen the past four seasons. The number of guys to play four years and actually put together a really good season at some point: 2 (G and Christmas). Number of guys to play at least four years and actually contribute to some success in a meaningful way? 2 (Roberson and Cooney).

So while we've still had really good young talent in that stretch (McCullough, Battle, Lydon, Richardson) we just have had very few four-year guys.

So after a long, rambling post, my point is this: I'm excited about Carey and Goodine and I'm disappointed with Bazely's decision, but really I'm just hoping a couple years from now we're talking fondly (even if we crush them because of their inevitable weaknesses) about the contributions of Hughes, Howard Washington, Dolezaj, Sidibe, Chuckwu, Howard, Braswell and Osun. That feels like it's every bit as important as landing some big names (who will inevitably leave early) in terms of getting this program back on track. It's at least worth watching.
wait, you are giving us osun in this post?
 


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