Another stupid question by Fat Mike

[dasher]

Today on the fan, he asks what is better being 5-2 in the Super Bowl or being 4-0? Really Mike? This isn't like starting pitchers. Look at it this way; QB A is in the league for 7 years. He goes to the conference finals 7 times and wins 4. He goes to the super bowl and wins all 4. QBB goes to the conference finals 7 times. He wins them all. He goes to the super Bowl and wins 5 of them. Now, isn't it obvious that 5-2 is better than 4-0. Christ Mike.

 

[Alsacs]

Mike just wants to keep Montana at #1.
It is obvious 5-2 is better than 4-0. Montana didn't get his team to the SB before he lost. That isn't more impressive than losing in the SB.

If you want to say Montana is the greatest QB in SB game history okay. However Brady closed the door yesterday for GOAT NFL QB.

Brady first QB with 5 SB rings only 2 players have 5 SB rings. Tom Brady and Charles Haley.

Brady is competing with Michael Jordan and Kareem Abdul Jabbar's modern record of 6 championships by an elite athlete. Robert Horry has 7 but he isn't a GOAT in his sport like Kareem and Michael.

 

[dasher]

Mike just wants to keep Montana at #1.
It is obvious 5-2 is better than 4-0. Montana didn't get his team to the SB before he lost. That isn't more impressive than losing in the SB.

If you want to say Montana is the greatest QB in SB game history okay. However Brady closed the door yesterday for GOAT NFL QB.

Brady first QB with 5 SB rings only 2 players have 5 SB rings. Tom Brady and Charles Haley.

Brady is competing with Michael Jordan and Kareem Abdul Jabbar's modern record of 6 championships by an elite athlete. Robert Horry has 7 but he isn't a GOAT in his sport like Kareem and Michael.

Wait one second. who are you to say what the modern era is? Bill Russell is in the modern era from where I come from pal.

 

[Alsacs]

Wait one second. who are you to say what the modern era is? Bill Russell is in the modern era from where I come from pal.

Bill Russell is all time great and Boston Mt. Rushmore athlete but he won all of his titles when the NBA had 12 teams or 8-9 teams total.
It wasn't till the 1970s when the NBA expanded.
I don't think Russell wins 11 championships if the league wasn't so small and teams had to play more
Playoff rounds.

That is why I said Jordan/Abdul-Jabbar's modern Era 6 titles.
Russell retired the year Kareem entered the league and historians don't think that wasn't coincidence.

 

[dasher]

Bill Russell is all time great and Boston Mt. Rushmore athlete but he won all of his titles when the NBA had 12 teams or 8-9 teams total.
It wasn't till the 1970s when the NBA expanded.
I don't think Russell wins 11 championships if the league wasn't so small and teams had to play more
Playoff rounds.

That is why I said Jordan/Abdul-Jabbar's modern Era 6 titles.
Russell retired the year Kareem entered the league and historians don't think that wasn't coincidence.

Historians? I was around then. Russell didn't get out to avoid Kareem. That is crazy. He played and won against Wilt.

 

[Trueblue25]

Uh oh the grown ups are arguing again

 

[Alsacs]

Historians? I was around then. Russell didn't get out to avoid Kareem. That is crazy. He played and won against Wilt.

He dominated Wilt because he Russell made friends with Wilt and that mental game gave Russell the competitive advantage.
Wilt cared more about stats and being a celebrity and Russell just wanted to win and knew playing into Wilt's ego it would help him when they faced head to head.

Russell saw Kareem dominating in college and knew it was time to retire in 1969. Plenty of NBA writers have written on this.
Russell won his titles in a small NBA only 12 teams his last year. A majority of his career it was 9 teams.

 

[Alsacs]

Uh oh the grown ups are arguing again

We aren't arguing it is friendly banter I have no frustration at all debating ole Dasher.

 

[dasher]

He dominated Wilt because he Russell made friends with Wilt and that mental game gave Russell the competitive advantage.
Wilt cared more about stats and being a celebrity and Russell just wanted to win and knew playing into Wilt's ego it would help him when they faced head to head.

Russell saw Kareem dominating in college and knew it was time to retire in 1969. Plenty of NBA writers have written on this.
Russell won his titles in a small NBA only 12 teams his last year. A majority of his career it was 9 teams.

I'm sorry but that is complete nonsense. Bill Russell wasn't afraid to play against Kareem. I was around watching the games. Russell was an old 35.

 

[dasher]

We aren't arguing it is friendly banter I have no frustration at all debating ole Dasher.

It's not their fault. They don't know. I heard a coach say that. It is true in this case as well.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

He dominated Wilt because he Russell made friends with Wilt and that mental game gave Russell the competitive advantage.
Wilt cared more about stats and being a celebrity and Russell just wanted to win and knew playing into Wilt's ego it would help him when they faced head to head.

Russell saw Kareem dominating in college and knew it was time to retire in 1969. Plenty of NBA writers have written on this.
Russell won his titles in a small NBA only 12 teams his last year. A majority of his career it was 9 teams.

Wilt versus Russell: head to head game log data. - Sports and Racing - NBA Message Board - GameFAQs

A Screaming Comes Across the Court: Wilt versus Russell: Head to Head Box Score Data

 

[KaiserUEO]

Da Pope has been championing Montana over Brady for a while...and well, he will take it to Dec 15 for sure.

Goes back to when he was 3-1, then 3-2...cough, ELI, cough...and then the ring by the stupidest play call in sports history, when tommyboy was on the sidelines crying.

He also likes to point out how Super Bowl losers are treated, so he weighs the 2 Ls heavily.

Oh, and in case youha awl didn't notice, da Pope is a noo yawka.

Youse don't like it? Get outta heah, goodbye...

 

[Alsacs]

Da Pope has been championing Montana over Brady for a while...and well, he will take it to Dec 15 for sure.

Goes back to when he was 3-1, then 3-2...cough, ELI, cough...and then the ring by the stupidest play call in sports history, when tommyboy was on the sidelines crying.

He also likes to point out how Super Bowl losers are treated, so he weighs the 2 Ls heavily.

Oh, and in case youha awl didn't notice, da Pope is a noo yawka.

Youse don't like it? Get outta heah, goodbye...

Montana wasn't good enough to carry his team to more SBs.

I think even Mike conceded the debate is lean Brady after yesterday and most analysts say it's over now.

5 rings ends it. Brady is bleeping 39 and is still playing at an all-pro level that is insane.
Brady is now in Jordan/Kareem mode now.
No NFL player has 6 rings.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Montana wasn't good enough to carry his team to more SBs. I think even Mike conceded the debate is lean Brady and most analysts say it's over now.
5 rings ends it. Brady is bleeping 39 and is still playing at an all-pro level that is insane.

Montana didn't win more...because his career, and almost his life...was shortened by the Giants 3x in the years he didn't win in the late 80s.

5 rings is 5 rings, but was a different argument at 3-1 and 3-2...I applaud him for sticking to his guns.

But of course...it's also good radio...which everyone forgets.

 

[dasher]

Da Pope has been championing Montana over Brady for a while...and well, he will take it to Dec 15 for sure.

Goes back to when he was 3-1, then 3-2...cough, ELI, cough...and then the ring by the stupidest play call in sports history, when tommyboy was on the sidelines crying.

He also likes to point out how Super Bowl losers are treated, so he weighs the 2 Ls heavily.

Oh, and in case youha awl didn't notice, da Pope is a noo yawka.

Youse don't like it? Get outta heah, goodbye...

My argument wasn't about who the best qb was. That is a opinion. And super Bowl titles aren't the only measure. My argument was about the ridiculous question of what is better, 4-0 or 5-2. There is no debate there.

 

[Alsacs]

Montana didn't win more...because his career, and almost his life...was shortened by the Giants 3x in the years he didn't win in the late 80s.

5 rings is 5 rings, but was a different argument at 3-1 and 3-2...I applaud him for sticking to his guns.

But of course...it's also good radio...which everyone forgets.

Before Brady won 2 years ago I had Montana ahead but 4-2 ended it for me. 5-2 made him the greatest winner in NFL history and moved him to Jordan territory not football guys anymore.'
Mike knows his audience though he can't praise Brady with Jets hate and Giants beating him twice.
Montana also had Jerry Rice people forget that.
Rice in the 80s and 90s was the LT of offense.

 

[Alsacs]

My argument wasn't about who the best qb was. That is a opinion. And super Bowl titles aren't the only measure. My argument was about the ridiculous question of what is better, 4-0 or 5-2. There is no debate there.

It's 5-2 all day long.

 

[bpo57]

Bill Russell is all time great and Boston Mt. Rushmore athlete but he won all of his titles when the NBA had 12 teams or 8-9 teams total.
It wasn't till the 1970s when the NBA expanded.
I don't think Russell wins 11 championships if the league wasn't so small and teams had to play more
Playoff rounds.

That is why I said Jordan/Abdul-Jabbar's modern Era 6 titles.
Russell retired the year Kareem entered the league and historians don't think that wasn't coincidence.

That last line makes zero sense. In his last year Russell was a player-coach. He was at the end of his career at 35 years old.

As for the Celts they beat some great teams - the Lakers with Wilt, West and Baylor. The Sixers before that with Wilt, Chet Walker, Hal Greer and Billy Cunningham. Also the Royals with Oscar Robertson and Jerry Lucas.

The fact that there were less teams actually means less dilution and more concentrated talent.

 

[bpo57]

He dominated Wilt because he Russell made friends with Wilt and that mental game gave Russell the competitive advantage.
Wilt cared more about stats and being a celebrity and Russell just wanted to win and knew playing into Wilt's ego it would help him when they faced head to head.

Russell saw Kareem dominating in college and knew it was time to retire in 1969. Plenty of NBA writers have written on this.
Russell won his titles in a small NBA only 12 teams his last year. A majority of his career it was 9 teams.

lol you probably weren't even alive back then but you're an expert, right?. Btw you left out a few other reasons why Russell beat Wilt. He had a HOF coach as well as HOF teammates like John Havlicek, Sam Jones and KC Jones among others.

 

[bpo57]

My argument wasn't about who the best qb was. That is a opinion. And super Bowl titles aren't the only measure. My argument was about the ridiculous question of what is better, 4-0 or 5-2. There is no debate there.

We have a weird sports culture where teams and players that lose in the Finals/SB etc. are ridiculed more than those who never had a sniff at a title. Also these are team games and not one on one match-ups.

 

[Alsacs]

lol you probably weren't even alive back then but you're an expert, right?. Btw you left out a few other reasons why Russell beat Wilt. He had a HOF coach as well as HOF teammates like John Havlicek, Sam Jones and KC Jones among others.

Read the Book of Basketball it is so well researched it supports these conclusions.
Russell retired when he did because he was smart. He saw the future and knew his dominance was over. I know all about the 1969 season and how the Celtics won game 7 in LA.
I also know about the Russell-Wilt rivalry reading about it.
Russell buttered up to Wilt and Wilt never realized it and it helped Russell. You go out of your way to criticize every thing I say. If you disagree either bring something to counter what I say or ignore it. I can take different opinions fine but when all the person does is say your wrong because and brings nothing I could careless if they disagree.

Russell won his 9 of his 11 titles in small 9 team NBA fact. He dominated Wilt in head to head wins wise. Wilt submarined the Warriors, was traded to Lakers and won there after Russell retired.
Kareem came into the league the year Russell retired.

Russell saw Kareem's game in college and realized he wasn't good enough at 35 to compete so he walked away. If Kareem doesn't come into the league in 1970 I believe without proof I admit that Russell plays another year as player/coach. He was player/coach his last 2 years.

I have read enough NBA history to actually know what I am talking about. Having different opinions makes debate interesting.

To the overall point I personally find Jordan and Abdul Jabbar's 6 rings each more impressive than Russell's 11 rings.

 

[Alsacs]

lol you probably weren't even alive back then but you're an expert, right?. Btw you left out a few other reasons why Russell beat Wilt. He had a HOF coach as well as HOF teammates like John Havlicek, Sam Jones and KC Jones among others.

Teams got players thru territorial draft. Boston had access to New England and got Bob Cousy/Tom Heinsohn because they went to Holy Cross. All of
the teams were stacked but the Celtics had the most
HOFers of those 9 NBA teams.
Bob Cousy and Bill Sharman were first team all NBA players with Russell.
Sam Jones and Jojo White were freaking bench players. Those Celtics teams were beyond stacked.

 

[orangenauburn]

Read the Book of Basketball it is so well researched it supports these conclusions.
Russell retired when he did because he was smart. He saw the future and knew his dominance was over. I know all about the 1969 season and how the Celtics won game 7 in LA.
I also know about the Russell-Wilt rivalry reading about it.
Russell buttered up to Wilt and Wilt never realized it and it helped Russell. You go out of your way to criticize every thing I say. If you disagree either bring something to counter what I say or ignore it. I can take different opinions fine but when all the person does is say your wrong because and brings nothing I could careless if they disagree.

Russell won his 9 of his 11 titles in small 9 team NBA fact. He dominated Wilt in head to head wins wise. Wilt submarined the Warriors, was traded to Lakers and won there after Russell retired.
Kareem came into the league the year Russell retired.

Russell saw Kareem's game in college and realized he wasn't good enough at 35 to compete so he walked away. If Kareem doesn't come into the league in 1970 I believe without proof I admit that Russell plays another year as player/coach. He was player/coach his last 2 years.

I have read enough NBA history to actually know what I am talking about. Having different opinions makes debate interesting.

To the overall point I personally find Jordan and Abdul Jabbar's 6 rings each more impressive than Russell's 11 rings.

Jordan would have 8 rings had his father not been murdered and thus his mid life crisis of pursuing baseball.

He beat some.damn good teams and players along the way.

He also lost to some damn good teams and players early in his career which drove him to be what he became

 

[KaiserUEO]

My argument wasn't about who the best qb was. That is a opinion. And super Bowl titles aren't the only measure. My argument was about the ridiculous question of what is better, 4-0 or 5-2. There is no debate there.

For me 5-2 > 4-0, but I'm an Elway guy for #1.

Starr is a better winne anyway.

Peyton and Brady being rest of debate.

 

[dasher]

Read the Book of Basketball it is so well researched it supports these conclusions.
Russell retired when he did because he was smart. He saw the future and knew his dominance was over. I know all about the 1969 season and how the Celtics won game 7 in LA.
I also know about the Russell-Wilt rivalry reading about it.
Russell buttered up to Wilt and Wilt never realized it and it helped Russell. You go out of your way to criticize every thing I say. If you disagree either bring something to counter what I say or ignore it. I can take different opinions fine but when all the person does is say your wrong because and brings nothing I could careless if they disagree.

Russell won his 9 of his 11 titles in small 9 team NBA fact. He dominated Wilt in head to head wins wise. Wilt submarined the Warriors, was traded to Lakers and won there after Russell retired.
Kareem came into the league the year Russell retired.

Russell saw Kareem's game in college and realized he wasn't good enough at 35 to compete so he walked away. If Kareem doesn't come into the league in 1970 I believe without proof I admit that Russell plays another year as player/coach. He was player/coach his last 2 years.

I have read enough NBA history to actually know what I am talking about. Having different opinions makes debate interesting.

To the overall point I personally find Jordan and Abdul Jabbar's 6 rings each more impressive than Russell's 11 rings.

There is no way that Russell ran away from the league because Jabbar came in the league. It just didn't happen. People write all sorts of things. It doesn't make them true. Russell was an old 35. His team was also old. his last year, the Celts finished 4th not first. they had a hot playoff.