Anything less than a top 25 season next year should be unacceptable

[Cusefan0307]

If I was Jw that is exactly what I would tell
JB.

It will be 9 years since we were in the top 25 in January or February.

One or two NIT years is fine, but not 8 years on the bubble or worse.

We need to win next season.

Get the players to do it.

 

[hoopsupstate]

It’s twenty regular season wins and a NCAA bid or bust. Nothing less. I don’t think that will be easy. He has some good players coming in, not great and they will struggle because they will be young. It’s not Duke talent where they just reload with three top five recruits. I don’t think they make the tourney next year unless he brings in a big time forward from the portal. JB’s keeps saying he told next years recruits he plans to coach next year. So What? He’s playing that game to save his job.

 

[Alsacs]

If I was Jw that is exactly what I would tell
JB.

It will be 9 years since we were in the top 25 in January or February.

One or two NIT years is fine, but not 8 years on the bubble or worse.

We need to win next season.

Get the players to do it.

So can we announce the retirement next December or January?
The roster we have on the books isn’t doing that.
Add Mintz.
We need Cole and another Forward.
If we lose Cole then two forwards.

Also Mintz is a kid i am not going to expect too much from.
Flynn was a freshman PG who went 15PPG and 5APG as a freshman.
Can Mintz do that?

Top 25 next season would be miracle unless we beat teams 55-52 and we win all the close games.

 

[Cusefan0307]

So can we announce the retirement next December or January?
The roster we have on the books isn’t doing that.
Add Mintz.
We need Cole and another Forward.
If we lose Cole then two forwards.

Also Mintz is a kid i am not going to expect too much from.
Flynn was a freshman PG who went 15PPG and 5APG as a freshman.
Can Mintz do that?

Top 25 next season would be miracle unless we beat teams 55-52 and we win all the close games.

That’s what the portal is for.

I don’t want to hear any excuses about the roster.

If he can’t build a roster to do it then he has to retire.

 

[Alsacs]

That’s what the portal is for.

I don’t want to hear any excuses about the roster.

If he can’t build a roster to do it then he has to retire.

I agree but we all can use our brains and see what is going to happen.

Next year’s recruiting class isn’t worth another season of this routine.

JB after we lose to Richmond in the Empire Classic next year "These freshmen aren't ready to play in the ACC"

 

[Cusefan0307]

I agree but we all can use our brains and see what is going to happen.

Next year’s recruiting class isn’t worth another season of this routine.

JB after we lose to Richmond in the Empire Classic next year "These freshmen aren't ready to play in the ACC"

We do, but JB doesn’t. He’s said this is one of his best classes. Use these words against him.

And all these schools in the top 25 can find impact transfers and we don’t even try. It’s maddening.

 

[pearl31]

That’s what the portal is for.

I don’t want to hear any excuses about the roster.

If he can’t build a roster to do it then he has to retire.

This. This. This.

 

[djcon57]

That’s what the portal is for.

I don’t want to hear any excuses about the roster.

If he can’t build a roster to do it then he has to retire.

yep.

“But how do you get players if they have to sit behind Joe Girard”

ummm...sit Joe Girard.

 

[Cusefan0307]

yep.

“But how do you get players if they have to sit behind Joe Girard”

ummm...sit Joe Girard.

And if we don’t have enough good forwards start 3 guards and play man to man.

Done with having to throw square pegs in a round hole if we don’t have the pieces.

 

[Fly Rodder]

And all these schools in the top 25 can find impact transfers and we don’t even try. It’s maddening.

Just for an example, last year Arizona fired their longtime successful coach, lost eight ( ! ) players to the transfer portal, hired a new coach, brought in four transfers and a 4-star recruit (who doesn't play), and they're 2nd in the country.

 

[MSOrange]

Just for an example, last year Arizona fired their longtime successful coach, lost eight ( ! ) players to the transfer portal, hired a new coach, brought in four transfers and a 4-star recruit (who doesn't play), and they're 2nd in the country.

Agree. The turnaround can be quicker than people think.

Bottom line - is Jim Boeheim the best coach for SU in 2022 and going forward? I think the only people that are still saying yes are saying that for nostalgia reasons... and that's not good logic and reasoning.

 

[Grbac]

There is no ultimatum. Jim Boeheim will coach as long as he feels like it. The sooner we come to terms with that the sooner we can deal with it.
Wildhack already stated he has built up enough equity to stay around. He will never fire JB. No AD would to be fair.
Might as well get used to this. We will be at this level for the foreseeable future. If not lower.
Doesn’t matter how many recruits we have. JB will play his favorites 30+ minutes and everyone else will sit the bench.
This is who we are now. Middle to lower level ACC team.

 

[RF2044]

There is no ultimatum. Jim Boeheim will coach as long as he feels like it. The sooner we come to terms with that the sooner we can deal with it.
Wildhack already stated he has built up enough equity to stay around. He will never fire JB. No AD would to be fair.
Might as well get used to this. We will be at this level for the foreseeable future. If not lower.
Doesn’t matter how many recruits we have. JB will play his favorites 30+ minutes and everyone else will sit the bench.
This is who we are now. Middle to lower level ACC team.

I agree with your first sentence, but completely disagree with your second sentence.

Potentially finishing under .500 this year, in the midst of a multi-year trend of program decline, erodes some of the autonomy and unlimited rope JB has enjoyed, IMO.

 

[kcsu]

There is no ultimatum. Jim Boeheim will coach as long as he feels like it. The sooner we come to terms with that the sooner we can deal with it.
Wildhack already stated he has built up enough equity to stay around. He will never fire JB. No AD would to be fair.
Might as well get used to this. We will be at this level for the foreseeable future. If not lower.
Doesn’t matter how many recruits we have. JB will play his favorites 30+ minutes and everyone else will sit the bench.
This is who we are now. Middle to lower level ACC team.

Thats crap. If JB lays an egg next year he will retire. JW will see to that. If he wins and makes the dance he stays.

 

[Grbac]

I agree with your first sentence, but completely disagree with your second sentence.

Potentially finishing under .500 this year, in the midst of a multi-year trend of program decline, erodes some of the autonomy and unlimited rope JB has enjoyed, IMO.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
John Wildhack will never fire Jim Boeheim. It will never happen.
Jim decides when he leaves. Isn’t that obvious. It’s been time for him to leave but there isn’t any indication of that happening anytime soon.
If he was going to retire, wouldn’t this season be perfect. Got to coach his boys and ride off into the sunset.

 

[RF2044]

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
John Wildhack will never fire Jim Boeheim. It will never happen.
Jim decides when he leaves. Isn’t that obvious. It’s been time for him to leave but there isn’t any indication of that happening anytime soon.
If he was going to retire, wouldn’t this season be perfect. Got to coach his boys and ride off into the sunset.

I didn't say "fire."

But make uncomfortable / push out / make it less desirable to remain / induce him to step down -- that's what's probably going to transpire.

 

[pearl31]

If he was going to retire, wouldn’t this season be perfect. Got to coach his boys and ride off into the sunset.

This is a valid point/question, and I've been ruminating on it the past couple of days. My working theory as of right now as to JB's plan-

Bring in a large, well-rounded class of recruits as the "foundation" for the next coach. Coach and prepare that class for a year as an attempt at optimal continuity, so that the next coach has something solid to work with.

This, I'm thinking, is why JB is rolling primarily with the incoming recruits for next year's roster (and not pounding the portal for grad xfers) - not to win a bunch of games, but to establish a foundation for the next coach. Like, that's his duty as the steward of the program.

who knows

 

[Grbac]

But make uncomfortable / push out / make it less desirable to remain / induce him to step down -- that's what's probably going to transpire.

I want to believe this. I really do. I just feel JB would want to stay longer the harder he is being pushed out.
Isn’t that basically what happened with the Hopkins situation. He wasn’t ready and was being pushed and has stayed on ever since.

 

[Grbac]

This is a valid point/question, and I've been ruminating on it the past couple of days. My working theory as of right now as to JB's plan-

Bring in a large, well-rounded class of recruits as the "foundation" for the next coach. Coach and prepare that class for a year as an attempt at optimal continuity, so that the next coach has something solid to work with.

This, I'm thinking, is why JB is rolling primarily with the incoming recruits for next year's roster (and not pounding the portal for grad xfers) - not to win a bunch of games, but to establish a foundation for the next coach. Like, that's his duty as the steward of the program.

who knows

I think I could live with that. But wouldn’t a continuation like this require the successor to be on staff already. Otherwise you are developing guys to play under a different coaches system. A coach who may want completely different players. I don’t know, just playing devils advocate at this point.

 

[Alsacs]

I want to believe this. I really do. I just feel JB would want to stay longer the harder he is being pushed out.
Isn’t that basically what happened with the Hopkins situation. He wasn’t ready and was being pushed and has stayed on ever since.

He wanted to coach Buddy and hated how he felt during the suspension.

Enough is enough. If you want to coach that badly go coach LeMoyne and get your fix there.

His routine would work there. No press, no pressure.
If he wants to coach P6 basketball then build a roster with talent to be competitive with all the teams in your conference.

 

[pearl31]

I think I could live with that. But wouldn’t a continuation like this require the successor to be on staff already. Otherwise you are developing guys to play under a different coaches system. A coach who may want completely different players. I don’t know, just playing devils advocate at this point.

Nope hey I'm right there with you. And yeah, I think part of this theorized plan would be that the next coach is more than likely on staff.
(much to the chagrin of 90% of the fanbase)

 

[Alsacs]

This is a valid point/question, and I've been ruminating on it the past couple of days. My working theory as of right now as to JB's plan-

Bring in a large, well-rounded class of recruits as the "foundation" for the next coach. Coach and prepare that class for a year as an attempt at optimal continuity, so that the next coach has something solid to work with.

This, I'm thinking, is why JB is rolling primarily with the incoming recruits for next year's roster (and not pounding the portal for grad xfers) - not to win a bunch of games, but to establish a foundation for the next coach. Like, that's his duty as the steward of the program.

who knows

I guarantee you right now if we hired Rick Pitino the day after the season. He could build a team to be competitive next year and start recruiting for 2023-2024.

JB can’t do that IMO.
Instead it’s take the lumps next year and hope these kids are decent for the next guy? That strikes internal hire.
No thanks(not directed at you)

 

[MSOrange]

I guarantee you right now if we hired Rick Pitino the day after the season. He could build a team to be competitive next year and start recruiting for 2023-2024.

JB can’t do that IMO.
Instead it’s take the lumps next year and hope these kids are decent for the next guy? That strikes internal hire.
No thanks(not directed at you)

Agree. It's possible to find the right guy to turnaround this quickly. Heck Wyoming was a horrible mess after Allen Edwards 4 years there. They couldn't compete at all. Jeff Linder has them playing great in just his second year, and that's after their star freshman PG transferred to Texas A&M after last year. Trust me - Wyoming is not an easy place to win either.

 

[Symphony Steve]

For me, anyway, no more kicking the can down the road.

This slide towards mediocrity was not only inevitable, many on the board predicted it.

No more one more year or else. It's past time. Force JB out, and start a new era of SU hoops. Stat!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
John Wildhack will never fire Jim Boeheim. It will never happen.
Jim decides when he leaves. Isn’t that obvious. It’s been time for him to leave but there isn’t any indication of that happening anytime soon.
If he was going to retire, wouldn’t this season be perfect. Got to coach his boys and ride off into the sunset.

Then this means we have allowed an individual to become bigger than the program, by extension the athletic department, and by extension the university.

And if that is the case, that's horrendous leadership.