Are we a Mid-Major in Football?

corpjet

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#1
Had an interesting conversation with some folks very knowledgeable with our football program over the weekend.

The words came out about us/CUSE being a "Mid-Major" Football program. Yes I know we are in the ACC however......

Lets be honest, we are not BAMA, TEXAS (although down as of late), FSU, Notre Dame, Ohio State (ugh), Oklahoma, USC, Nebraska or Florida. We can certainly add 20 more schools to this easily.

These schools who regularly line their rosters with 5 star recruits, get 60k for a spring game, have a state of the art facilities, unlimited football budgets and deep pocketed alum.

Are our expectations too high for our football program? Is our best case scenario to get to a bowl game, get a win and lets all call that a great season? Will we ever compete for our second National Championship?

Please before you start the bashing I'm as passionate as they come about Syracuse and its football and b-ball programs but our we looking through rose colored glasses and missing the obvious?
 
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#2
Not being a college football blue blood does not = a mid-major.

A mid-major is UCF. Had an amazing season, went undefeated and didn't get a playoff spot. Being in the ACC, with the schedule we have, if we somehow were to go undefeated in a season, we'd definitely get a playoff spot/compete for a National Championship.
 

bevosu

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#5
For the past one and a half decades we have been among the worst performers among major conference teams. I think Kentucky, Indiana, Iowa State have been right there with us (although we have a much higher W-L % historically than those teams).

I don't think we'd call them mid majors and I don't think they'd call us a mid major.
 
B

BillSU

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#6
For the past one and a half decades we have been among the worst performers among major conference teams. I think Kentucky, Indiana, Iowa State have been right there with us (although we have a much higher W-L % historically than those teams).

I don't think we'd call them mid majors and I don't think they'd call us a mid major.
corpjet: NO we are not a mid – major. We are SU, a P5 ACC member school.

The teams you listed, (“BAMA, TEXAS (although down as of late), FSU, Notre Dame, Ohio State (ugh), Oklahoma, USC, Nebraska or Florida”), are state supported schools with much more resources, financial and otherwise, than SU. You forgot Georgia, Wisconsin, Washington, LSU, Clemson among others.

A study conducted by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, traced public college revenue between 2003 and 2012. In 2003, state funding accounted for 32% of public colleges’ revenue — more than any other source — while tuition made up 17%. The above get more of the pie while we private institutions don't. The above also have deep pockets from alums, donors, etc., etc.
We do have state of the art facilities in Basketball, Football, Lacrosse and every other sport we play. The money for them comes mostly from private donors.
The facilities attract recruits, the recruits become players on the campus they choose, use the facilities with coaching to build themselves into better athletes and do the best they can like we do to stay at the top of college rankings year after year – example: SU BB.

In FB, somewhere after Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick, whose mother wanted him home close to her in VA, we lost our way and have been trying to get back to where we were in the heady days of Brown, Davis, Little and Csonka. We'll get there. Tell your friends to have patience we are about to embark on an interesting ride in FB. Dino is doing what others haven't and you'll see the positive results sooner than later. GOSU
 
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CuseTroop

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#8
I’m way too drunk for a Monday, but my polo team went out and got shitty, so idk if I’ll make sense here.

We’re going bowling this year. And we are gonna get a win. And that’s gonna be a great season for us.

Then we are going to win multiple bowl games.

Idk I’d we are gonna compete for national championships. But drunk cusetroop thinks things are gonna be different around here real soon? Mid major? Nah man, we good
 

Alsacs

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#10
ACC and SEC schools the last 5 years players drafted in the NFL Draft.

Yes we are a midmajor.
4 players in 5 years drafted is a joke.
One of which was a punter.
 

TheCusian

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#11
Must have been talking to Basketball guys. Mid-major is a CBB term.

In CFB, $ is a bigger factor - so the defining line is P5 (major conference > major TV deal > major money). We are that.

But just in case folks want to be sure our glasses are not too orange (a mortal sin around here):

- Over the last 15 years, we've won games and had talent that is more akin to a top G5 school
- We've been at the bottom of the P5 alongside teams like Purdue, Rutgers, Illinois, Vanderbilt, Kansas for way too long - while teams like UCF, USF, Memphis, Houston - have all been better

That said - I think it's insane to think that the program isn't on the rise under Babers or that we can't be in the middle of the P5 this year or next. I think with this coach and system - we could win the division in 3.
 
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#13
As a 28 year old Cuse fan, my expectations for most of my life have been pretty low and we fail to meet them more often than not. The pinnacle of my fandom was watching us beat WVU in the Pinstripe Bowl to finish 8-5 and compared to most of my life, that felt like winning the National Title for this program. I'm not sure what our ceiling is at this point. We play in arguably the best division in CFB. Playing in bowl games is the minimum expectation, but can this program ever reach a double digit win season in the current landscape? I have no idea, but with each passing season it seems further from our grasp.

With all that said, we are definitely not a mid-major in the correct use of the term. We are receiving more money per season than real mid-majors collect in 20 years.
 

CuseTroop

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#16
I’m way too drunk for a Monday, but my polo team went out and got shitty, so idk if I’ll make sense here.

We’re going bowling this year. And we are gonna get a win. And that’s gonna be a great season for us.

Then we are going to win multiple bowl games.

Idk I’d we are gonna compete for national championships. But drunk cusetroop thinks things are gonna be different around here real soon? Mid major? Nah man, we good
Don't remember this. Made it to work tho!
 

shandeezy7

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#18
I love SU football and have been a season ticket holder since the G-Rob era. SU football is not a mid-major, however, the talent level and success on the field the past 15+ years has been mid-major level. In fact, calling our talent level and success the past 15 years as "mid-major level" is an insult to the mid-majors that have been better than us in that timeframe.
 

shantydaze

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#21
corpjet: NO we are not a mid – major. We are SU a P5 ACC member school.

The teams you listed, (“BAMA, TEXAS (although down as of late), FSU, Notre Dame, Ohio State (ugh), Oklahoma, USC, Nebraska or Florida”), are state supported schools with much more resources, financial and otherwise, than SU. You forgot Georgia, Wisconsin, Washington, LSU, Clemson among others.

A study conducted by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, traced public college revenue between 2003 and 2012. In 2003, state funding accounted for 32% of public colleges’ revenue — more than any other source — while tuition made up 17%. The above get more of the pie while we private institutions don't. The above also have deep pockets from alums, donors, etc., etc.

We do have state of the art facilities in Basketball, Football, Lacrosse and every other sport we play. The money for them comes mostly from private private donors.
The facilities attract recruits, the recruits become players on the campus they choose, use the facilities with coaching to build themselves into better athletes and do the best they can like we do to stay at the top of college rankings year after year – example: SU BB.

In FB, somewhere after Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick, whose mother wanted him home close to her, we lost our way and have been trying to get back to where we were in the heady days of Brown, Davis, Little and Csonka. We'll get there. Tell your friends to have patience we are about to embark on an interesting ride in FB. Dino is doing what others haven't and you'll see the positive results sooner than later. GOSU
(I added paragraph spaces to make your post easier to read)

I think the public/private distinction is somewhat overblown. There are 65 schools in Power 5 conferences. While some of these schools may not be very good, they are by definition not mid-major schools. Of the 65 schools, there are 12 private schools, which is approximately 18%. Of the 12 schools, five (plus Notre Dame) are in the ACC, which should lessen the effect of being a private school as we at least play two conference games a year against other privates. Further, some schools like Wisconsin have separate athletic departments that do not receive state funding.

While I think it is important to focus on the ACC as it is conference games we need to win to make a bowl game, looking at the other the success of the other conferences' private schools show it can be done. Northwestern and TCU are typically in the mix for a bowl game each year. Stanford and USC are usually in play-off discussions. Baylor had been considered a strong team until the program was found to have been built on the backs of s e xual assault.

Funding can be an issue, but I do not think for the reason stated. The reason tuition is a lower percentage of overall revenue for public schools is the state funding subsidizes in-state tuition for students. So, it is not a fair comparison unless the amount of tuition subsidies is added to the tuition revenue. Where it can come into play, however, is with the number of alumni supporting the school (but even this might be a stretch). The land grant schools of the B1G certainly have more alumnis to mine for donations than SU. However, when looking at schools in the ACC, this is not entirely true. Here is the breakdown of total students (undergrad and post-grad) according to wikipedia of the public schools in our division:

Syracuse - 22,484
Clemson - 23,406
FSU - 41,900
NC State - 32,113
Louisville - 22,640

Syracuse, Clemson and Louisville are very close with FSU being an outlier. So even size should not matter as much, especially when looking at Clemson's success.

So, I do not think being a "private" school hurts SU. We are not battling a state university football power. We are it in New York as the only other D-1 football school, Buffalo, is literally a mid-major. Being in an area that traditionally is more focused on pro, as opposed to college sports, probably hurts more than being a private school.
 

djorange1989

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#22
nope, we are a Power 5 team at a small private school in a state that doesn't produce much high end talent. A program that can't afford to make stupid head coaching hires and expect to bounce back quickly, and we made two of them in the span of 8 years and it screwed us bigtime. We are not a mid major, we just trotted out mid-major talent for much of the past dozen or so years, and that crappy trend is going to end with Dino. dammit.
 

Trueblue25

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#23
We’re a p5 program that was being degraded and unhinged for 2-3 years prior to dino’s hiring.

Now we’re closer to nc st and UL than we are uconn and cincy imo
 

NineOneSeven

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#24
(I added paragraph spaces to make your post easier to read)

I think the public/private distinction is somewhat overblown. There are 65 schools in Power 5 conferences. While some of these schools may not be very good, they are by definition not mid-major schools. Of the 65 schools, there are 12 private schools, which is approximately 18%. Of the 12 schools, five (plus Notre Dame) are in the ACC, which should lessen the effect of being a private school as we at least play two conference games a year against other privates. Further, some schools like Wisconsin have separate athletic departments that do not receive state funding.

While I think it is important to focus on the ACC as it is conference games we need to win to make a bowl game, looking at the other the success of the other conferences' private schools show it can be done. Northwestern and TCU are typically in the mix for a bowl game each year. Stanford and USC are usually in play-off discussions. Baylor had been considered a strong team until the program was found to have been built on the backs of s e xual assault.

Funding can be an issue, but I do not think for the reason stated. The reason tuition is a lower percentage of overall revenue for public schools is the state funding subsidizes in-state tuition for students. So, it is not a fair comparison unless the amount of tuition subsidies is added to the tuition revenue. Where it can come into play, however, is with the number of alumni supporting the school (but even this might be a stretch). The land grant schools of the B1G certainly have more alumnis to mine for donations than SU. However, when looking at schools in the ACC, this is not entirely true. Here is the breakdown of total students (undergrad and post-grad) according to wikipedia of the public schools in our division:

Syracuse - 22,484
Clemson - 23,406
FSU - 41,900
NC State - 32,113
Louisville - 22,640

Syracuse, Clemson and Louisville are very close with FSU being an outlier. So even size should not matter as much, especially when looking at Clemson's success.

So, I do not think being a "private" school hurts SU. We are not battling a state university football power. We are it in New York as the only other D-1 football school, Buffalo, is literally a mid-major. Being in an area that traditionally is more focused on pro, as opposed to college sports, probably hurts more than being a private school.
I went to Su and didn't even know that many kids went there. I thought it was closer to 16k.
 
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#25
nope, we are a Power 5 team at a small private school in a state that doesn't produce much high end talent. A program that can't afford to make stupid head coaching hires and expect to bounce back quickly, and we made two of them in the span of 8 years and it screwed us bigtime. We are not a mid major, we just trotted out mid-major talent for much of the past dozen or so years, and that crappy trend is going to end with Dino. dammit.

Syracuse is not a "small private school". Our enrollment is only lower than BYU and USC in regards to Private schools that play D1 football. SU is one of the largest private schools in the country.
 

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