As of today, our overall SOS is worse than Wichita State's

[Waltdods]

So, definitively, which are the top 5 teams in the country?

I think you're kind of missing the point here, which is that there's not enough evidence to say definitively that Syracuse is a top 5 team.

With that said, I think Arizona and Kansas are definitely top 5 teams. Who fills in the rest of that list is still to be determined. I'd bet on Syracuse being in that group, but I don't think the schedule has provided them enough opportunity to prove that yet.

 

[pearl31]

I think you're kind of missing the point here, which is that there's not enough evidence to say definitively that Syracuse is a top 5 team.

With that said, I think Arizona and Kansas are definitely top 5 teams. Who fills in the rest of that list is still to be determined. I'd bet on Syracuse being in that group, but I don't think the schedule has provided them enough opportunity to prove that yet.

So, definitively, which are the top 5 teams in the country?

 

[Waltdods]

So, definitively, which are the top 5 teams in the country?

I don't know. I thought the last post made that pretty clear?

 

[pearl31]

I don't know. I thought the last post made that pretty clear?

Why are Arizona and Kansas definitively top 5 teams while, say, Syracuse and Florida are not?

 

[cuseincincy]

Crap. Does this mean we're not 19-0? Damn this team needs to get it head out of its a$$ and start winning some games that matter. Geez I miss the Big East so I could at least feel good about how many good teams were in our conference.

 

[orangefan13]

I think Cooney played a perfect game for him going forward. 6 shots. None forced. A huge 3 at the end of the game. 3/6 from 3. Now I'd like him to drive to basket at least once a game when he sees an opportunity, but he isn't Tyler and I don't 100% trust his decision making.

If Rak could avg. 10 points we would be unstoppable. I love his new found aggression on offense though. I think JB can live with some of the ill advised stuff because he needs to be a weapon. And some of the "bad" shots are starting to go in so they're not really bad any more.

G took a bit of a step back against Miami, but overall his progression is trending up.

There is so much room for improvement with Grant, CJ taking care of the ball, Ennis looking for his shot more, Trevor driving, Rak being stronger offensively and G and Roberson improving.

19-0 and can get significantly better come mid March. This is exciting stuff even if we lose a few games (which we probably will).

Good post. Yeah as of right now this team needs work even at 19-0. There is 1-3 other top ten teams in the country that are probably struggling less then us in game. And 3-5 darkhorses really pushing their way up arguably better then us in chemistry. One of which we play on sat.

Its funny how pressure is put on us. Whenever we play great we lose a ao, fab, dajuan or just can't get over the hump to win by 10 down before they start fouling on purpose. You look at this duke and kansas team and they have 1-2 players that all of a sudden are ready to step up midseason. Us, we rarely ever get that, maybe by march but not my late jan. JB's teams are known for getting better right before march though.

But the biggest room for improvment imo right now is in Fairs iso game, cooney's shooting %'s and Rak getting more shots in the post imo. Maybe Ennis being more agressive and Grants high post jumper. I would love to see Gbinije, Roberson or BJ step up but I think its less likely then the above.

We almost need Cooney, Fair Grant and Ennis to give us 35 good minutes every game. Really I would say we can only spell them 5 minutes of rest each and thats when we want Rak in and getting 51/2-8 hookshots around the rim on average.

The world is talking about us being 19-0 but its pretty pointless at this stage imo. Its good to be a one seed in buffalo for march, but its better to be a favorite to win even if it means your a 3-5 seed like last year.
As of right now I don't know if we are clawing back to a level of what we were when we had dajuan or clawing to a level we could have been even beyond a healthy dajuan.

Honestly my faith isn't high for the duke game sat, win that one by 6-8 before they start fouling at the end and that will change.

 

[anomander]

I'm afraid I'm still something of a doubter based on watching all the games that have been televised.

I see this team as having flaws and as Boeheim said it's pretty "fragile".

I was poking fun at those who have called this a "Great" team and who seem to feel that being ranked #2 is the same as being the second best team.

There's a lot of justified anxiousness after watching Duke v. Pitt. There's a lot less chest-pounding going on.

I really don't know who you think is better then us? The overall talent in cbb is way down. Syracuse has a lot going for them.

- One of the best defenses in the country
- The hardest defensive to prepare against in the country, especially come toruney time when teams haven't seen us and have quick turnarounds
- Have 4 guys who can score the ball. It will be a rare night when all 4 are off.
- One of the best offensive rebounding teams in the country
- Have 2 go to players

We have everything you need to be a great team. Our biggest question mark right now is depth, and how our players hold up logging these major minutes. But I still am not worried about the close games. If anything this team has proven themselves to be a great team the way they close games. Our defense becomes almost impossible to score against down the stretch. We are playing close games because teams are forced to slow the ball down against the zone. We aren't really a team that blows everyone out because the style of play we force teams into.

The only game I am really concerned about is @ Virginia, but once it comes to tournament time we will be a pretty decent favorite all the way to the Final 4. I can't see anybody beating us in the state of NY

 

[anomander]

Just as people were wrong to think a tough game against St. Francis meant this was the worst team since 2008, I think people are over-reading the 19-0. The team has been gutting out wins - which is impressive and exciting and a very good sign, long term - playing in front of mostly friendly crowds against mostly mediocre teams. It is clear, absolutely 100% clear, that Syracuse is one of the top 15 or so teams in the country. I think just given how backloaded the schedule is that it is hard to say definitively right now that Syracuse is one of the top 5 teams in the country. (Which is not to say the ranking isn't deserved; it is.)

How much cbb do you watch? This game is watered down more now then ever. If Syracuse isn't a top 5 team who is? Top 15, you have to be kidding me

 

[Waltdods]

Why are Arizona and Kansas definitively top 5 teams while, say, Syracuse and Florida are not?

Kansas has played the toughest schedule in the country and is the most talented team in the country.

Arizona has won @ SD State, @ Michigan, @ UCLA, and beat Duke at MSG. SD State, Michigan, and Duke are all probably going to be top-3 seeds. Syracuse has not yet played a team anywhere near that caliber outside the Carrier Dome (neither has Florida, for that matter).

Just to be clear about what I'm saying - I think, as of today January 28, we have seen enough from Kansas and Arizona to know they are 2 of the top 5 college basketball teams in the country. I don't think we can say the same thing for a team that doesn't have a single road win against a team that will make the NCAA tournament. We'll know more soon enough, obviously.

Look, it was only three years ago that Syracuse started 18-0 and then lost its next four games. I think this year's team is better than that squad (which was a good team but obviously not a top-5 team), but every thing that's said about this year's team could have been said about that team too at the same point of the season.

 

[Garbs]

Crap. Does this mean we're not 19-0? Damn this team needs to get it head out of its a$$ and start winning some games that matter. Geez I miss the Big East so I could at least feel good about how many good teams were in our conference.

people need to get over this

in the ACC this year we have by RPI: 7, 10, 20, 21, 26, 51, 59, 71, 78, 82, 88, 92, 156, 168, 204
in the Big East if it were around: 4, 7, 20, 22, 29, 38, 43, 72, 76, 84, 92, 102, 120, 167, 197

it is a down year overrall, if we were in the big east it would be the same

 

[pearl31]

Kansas has played the toughest schedule in the country and is the most talented team in the country.

so losses to Colorado and at home to SD St. don't count?

 

[pearl31]

people need to get over this

in the ACC this year we have by RPI: 7, 10, 20, 21, 26, 51, 59, 71, 78, 82, 88, 92, 156, 168, 204
in the Big East if it were around: 4, 7, 20, 22, 29, 38, 43, 72, 76, 84, 92, 102, 120, 167, 197

it is a down year overrall, if we were in the big east it would be the same

thinks you might want to get yer sarcasm meter checked

 

[Garbs]

thinks you might want to get yer sarcasm meter checked

in this instance you may be right, but the point stands, many on this board feel the Big East would be a far superior league this year

 

[cusetown1]

so losses to Colorado and at home to SD St. don't count?

Kansas' good wins are against conference teams in which they own and had key players injured on each teAm .But we are already to annoint them ? Lol

 

[jordoo]

Does this team have some flaws? Yes. Have they been struggling at times? Yes. Welcome to watered down bball in the 2010's there aren't great teams like there were in the 80's and 90's. AZ has struggled at times as well its just the way it is. We have managed to win all our games even with our struggles and flaws. Only CJ & Baye are really finished products on our team and Fair is in a new role.

Could we have played a better schedule? Yes.
Have we done the best we could do against that schedule? Yes 19-0 we won them all.

Kansas has 4 losses against a great schedule do you think we would have 4 losses against that schedule? I don't.
Do you think Kansas would be undefeated against our schedule? I don't.

Its one thing to be cautious and point out things we need to get better at but if you honestly feel at 19-0 this year that we aren't all that good and probably not a top 5 team when do you ever let yourself enjoy being a fan.

Personally I think the best thing about our team is that it is morphing into an Ennis/Grant offensive team at times that will give CJ more opportunity to play in that complimentary role where he is great and is also his best chance at being successful at the next level. I see CJ still being the man but being able to be much more efficient for periods during the game while teams make adjustments or game plans to stop Grant and Ennis while still keeping track of Cooney and being at least honest on Rakeem.

 

[tbonezone]

and next couple of games the shockers play loyola and evansville whilst we tackle wake and duke. seems fair.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I love watching Wichita State.

 

[Waltdods]

Its one thing to be cautious and point out things we need to get better at but if you honestly feel at 19-0 this year that we aren't all that good and probably not a top 5 team when do you ever let yourself enjoy being a fan.

I've not said this is "probably not a top 5 team" and I've definitely not said "we aren't all that good." I've said we don't know whether this is a top-5 team or "just" a top-15 team (which would be great!). Part of the joy is finding out.

Again, we haven't played a single - not one - road game against an NCAA tournament team. We have been winning, but not blowing teams out. These are positive signs, but there is still a lot more to be learned about this team.

It's a fair point that I'm being a little hypocritical with respect to Kansas. But (1) they have a ridiculous amount of talent, (2) they are going to win the Big 12 easily, and (3) they have looked dominant many times in a way Syracuse hasn't yet. But still this is mostly eye test stuff and that's probably not fair in light of the thrust of my posts.

 

[Trueblue25]

We have Jerami Grant, CJ Fair, Rak, Cooney and Ennis.


They do not.

They don't even have BMK, G or Roberson.

We do.

F 'em all.

 

[CorduroyG]

the eye test tells me that a starting 5 of ennis, cooney, christmas, grant, and fair is a top 5 team.

 

[jordoo]

I've not said this is "probably not a top 5 team" and I've definitely not said "we aren't all that good." I've said we don't know whether this is a top-5 team or "just" a top-15 team (which would be great!). Part of the joy is finding out.

Again, we haven't played a single - not one - road game against an NCAA tournament team. We have been winning, but not blowing teams out. These are positive signs, but there is still a lot more to be learned about this team.

It's a fair point that I'm being a little hypocritical with respect to Kansas. But (1) they have a ridiculous amount of talent, (2) they are going to win the Big 12 easily, and (3) they have looked dominant many times in a way Syracuse hasn't yet. But still this is mostly eye test stuff and that's probably not fair in light of the thrust of my posts.

Turn the same microscope back on every team currently ranked and you will find we are right at the top. You are more critical of SU with zero losses than you are KU with 4. Yes they played a better schedule but they lost 4 of those games. Again do you feel that Kansas would be undefeated against our schedule? Do you feel we would have 4 losses against their schedule? These are obviously hard to answer because matchups and venues are subjective as are the relative strengths of teams and level of teams play as we go through the season. I understand that but if you looked at Kansas the way you look at SU you would be pointing out not just the losses by why they lost. You would be pointing out the injuries on other good teams they have played. You would be pointing out the huge BiG12 ref bias they have had for years not just at home but also on the road. You can say that's BS but it plays into the early exits in the NCAA's which is proof in the pudding IMO. BTW KU is always one of the most talented 4/5 teams as is UK but talent doesn't mean they will realize it. Point the same microscope at other teams be fair and I think you will see its pretty hard logically not to have SU a top5 team overall.

 

[NKR1978]

Turn the same microscope back on every team currently ranked and you will find we are right at the top. You are more critical of SU with zero losses than you are KU with 4. Yes they played a better schedule but they lost 4 of those games. Again do you feel that Kansas would be undefeated against our schedule? Do you feel we would have 4 losses against their schedule? These are obviously hard to answer because matchups and venues are subjective as are the relative strengths of teams and level of teams play as we go through the season. I understand that but if you looked at Kansas the way you look at SU you would be pointing out not just the losses by why they lost. You would be pointing out the injuries on other good teams they have played. You would be pointing out the huge BiG12 ref bias they have had for years not just at home but also on the road. You can say that's BS but it plays into the early exits in the NCAA's which is proof in the pudding IMO. BTW KU is always one of the most talented 4/5 teams as is UK but talent doesn't mean they will realize it. Point the same microscope at other teams be fair and I think you will see its pretty hard logically not to have SU a top5 team overall.

Part of being over critical of your team is the fact that you watch every possession incredibly carefully. With other teams you overlook their bad possessions and the runs teams make on them. If I were to watch Kansas lose an 18 point lead and trail late in a game I wouldn't panic for them and would assume that they would win the game. A Kansas fan would likely think the same about syracuse.

 

[jordoo]

Part of being over critical of your team is the fact that you watch every possession incredibly carefully. With other teams you overlook their bad possessions and the runs teams make on them. If I were to watch Kansas lose an 18 point lead and trail late in a game I wouldn't panic for them and would assume that they would win the game. A Kansas fan would likely think the same about syracuse.

And you easily forget when other good teams have these lulls and bad patches and remember them at their best.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Good post. Yeah as of right now this team needs work even at 19-0. There is 1-3 other top ten teams in the country that are probably struggling less then us in game. And 3-5 darkhorses really pushing their way up arguably better then us in chemistry. One of which we play on sat.

Its funny how pressure is put on us. Whenever we play great we lose a ao, fab, dajuan or just can't get over the hump to win by 10 down before they start fouling on purpose. You look at this duke and kansas team and they have 1-2 players that all of a sudden are ready to step up midseason. Us, we rarely ever get that, maybe by march but not my late jan. JB's teams are known for getting better right before march though.

But the biggest room for improvment imo right now is in Fairs iso game, cooney's shooting %'s and Rak getting more shots in the post imo. Maybe Ennis being more agressive and Grants high post jumper. I would love to see Gbinije, Roberson or BJ step up but I think its less likely then the above.

We almost need Cooney, Fair Grant and Ennis to give us 35 good minutes every game. Really I would say we can only spell them 5 minutes of rest each and thats when we want Rak in and getting 51/2-8 hookshots around the rim on average.

The world is talking about us being 19-0 but its pretty pointless at this stage imo. Its good to be a one seed in buffalo for march, but its better to be a favorite to win even if it means your a 3-5 seed like last year.
As of right now I don't know if we are clawing back to a level of what we were when we had dajuan or clawing to a level we could have been even beyond a healthy dajuan.

Honestly my faith isn't high for the duke game sat, win that one by 6-8 before they start fouling at the end and that will change.

This is a good post. Agree with everything here. In regards to your second paragraph Duke, Kansas and even Michigan last year probably have a bit more of the elite blue-chip guys who start to bloom mid January on.

Fair's iso game needs to be in his comfort zone, though. Limit the dribbling but still be on the attack. Be crafty. If it is Hood on him then the result will say plenty about both players. Looking forward to that matchup if it indeed comes down to that.

I still worry about Parker and Hood the most. Sulaimon too if he gets going. He's their most athletic guard and can do more damage in all offensive facets of the game than the other guys. Dawkins I hope won't have a repeat performance. I don't think they are that great of a team but they have potent weapons to shred our zone, great coaching, and their D is shaping into a good D now. They were unfazed by the Oakland Zoo and won't be bothered by the noise Sat, imo. We aren't getting to the line then it will be a long day. Draw fouls and make FTs and we should be fine. Rak and Grant will need to have big games since I think Fair will struggle and at times Ennis/Cooney from their constant hounding.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I love watching Wichita State.

Me too. They are quietly having another great season. They execute, are physical, and I'd argue that Early/Baker/VanVleet are pretty much as good as any college trio in the country. Would not like to see them in a Regional Final.