At the risk of being ridiculed... | Syracusefan.com

At the risk of being ridiculed...

FreakTalksAboutSU

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...I am an out of towner who really hasnt gotten my head into the current SU roster or 2011-12 projections, as I have not yet made the mental transition from football...

What is the basis for some of these very high rankings? Not that I am arguing against them...I hope this is all legit, the hype. But is it a product of veteran leadership? Young guys taking a next step? The incoming class? All of the above? Any one factor more dominant than the other?

I have a sense from what I have read, but figured you guys would know a lot more than some national sports writer...

Just wondering.
 

Ghost

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What is the basis for some of these very high rankings?

One word: Thickburger.
 

SkanSU

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...What is the basis for some of these very high rankings? Not that I am arguing against them...I hope this is all legit, the hype. But is it a product of veteran leadership? Young guys taking a next step? The incoming class? All of the above? Any one factor more dominant than the other?.

Seriously (other than Thickburger) we have a solid core of returning starting experience with KJo, Scoop, BT and Fab-Keita. Plus we have a solid core of experience coming off the bench with Dion and CJ ... our only loss was Rick. Up until Marquette these kids had shown some real talent and skills... taking us to the Sweet 16. Now add two Mickey D's in Rak and MCW as well as Cooney who is supposed to be able to shoootthe eye out of a dime. Than there is Southerland who is one of the most athletic kids on the team. This team iis one of the deepest that JB has ever coached. Plus everyone iis expecting (hoping) for break out years from BT and Dion and CJ and if KJo continues to produce as he has and even improve SU will be very strong ... and big ... and deep at the 1,2,3, and 4. Our only question remains will we see significant improvement at the 5 ... If Fab comes in healthy and significantly improved we have a monster team with an awful lot of difficult match-ups for other teams ...It has been said we have no "superstar" but we have a team full of very talented and skilled kids. Needless to say expectations are high.

I hope I answered your question somewhat
 

OrangeinBoston

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...I am an out of towner who really hasnt gotten my head into the current SU roster or 2011-12 projections, as I have not yet made the mental transition from football...

What is the basis for some of these very high rankings? Not that I am arguing against them...I hope this is all legit, the hype. But is it a product of veteran leadership? Young guys taking a next step? The incoming class? All of the above? Any one factor more dominant than the other?

I have a sense from what I have read, but figured you guys would know a lot more than some national sports writer...

Just wondering.

What?? What?? How DARE you post here without first firmly putting your orange colored glasses on! I mean, What is wrong with you??

Just because SU had no centers to speak of last year and the same two guys return is absolutely NO REASON to question anything! Just because SU lost a very serviceable power forward and is replacing him with a freshman (who most reports suggest will take a couple of years to develop) is no reason not to expect SU in the Final Four. Now, go back to living under that rock you've been under until you have the good sense to engage in unjustified euphoria!
 

orange79

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What?? What?? How DARE you post here without first firmly putting your orange colored glasses on! I mean, What is wrong with you??

Just because SU had no centers to speak of last year and the same two guys return is absolutely NO REASON to question anything! Just because SU lost a very serviceable power forward and is replacing him with a freshman (who most reports suggest will take a couple of years to develop) is no reason not to expect SU in the Final Four. Now, go back to living under that rock you've been under until you have the good sense to engage in unjustified euphoria!
Two words...De caf
 

IthacaBarrel

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This might be the deepest SU basketball team ever

Deep but not GREAT anywhere, IMO, Rather have 7 with two stars than 12 really good guys... Depth is great but I don't see the star power or the speed in the backcourt, Like I said there are still going to be a very very good team, Pitt is a lot like this but it tends to them in the tournament... We shall see, I am not saying I am right and only time will tell and as I have said about college hoops, the only thing that people remember is the tournament, get a 1-3 seed and go from there, the season starts in March really.

Who is the best 3 point shooter?
 

arbitragegls

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Deep but not GREAT anywhere, IMO, Rather have 7 with two stars than 12 really good guys... Depth is great but I don't see the star power or the speed in the backcourt, Like I said there are still going to be a very very good team, Pitt is a lot like this but it tends to **** them in the tournament... We shall see, I am not saying I am right and only time will tell and as I have said about college hoops, the only thing that people remember is the tournament, get a 1-3 seed and go from there, the season starts in March really.

Who is the best 3 point shooter?
well before we get to the starters...Cooney who just may red shirt because he wont crack the first 5-five-guards...but will become a starter in second year with team...now for the unvieling of the 3 pt shooter breakout: TRICHE
 

OttoinGrotto

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...I am an out of towner who really hasnt gotten my head into the current SU roster or 2011-12 projections, as I have not yet made the mental transition from football...

What is the basis for some of these very high rankings? Not that I am arguing against them...I hope this is all legit, the hype. But is it a product of veteran leadership? Young guys taking a next step? The incoming class? All of the above? Any one factor more dominant than the other?

I have a sense from what I have read, but figured you guys would know a lot more than some national sports writer...

Just wondering.
We've got a nice blend of established players that have been successful, young guys growing up, some players that have kind of an x-factor feel to them, and a HOF coach. To say nothing of the fact that we've got some crazy length and athletes in general.

But yeah, mostly Thickburger.
 

cuseincincy

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Deep but not GREAT anywhere, IMO, Rather have 7 with two stars than 12 really good guys... Depth is great but I don't see the star power or the speed in the backcourt, Like I said there are still going to be a very very good team, Pitt is a lot like this but it tends to **** them in the tournament... We shall see, I am not saying I am right and only time will tell and as I have said about college hoops, the only thing that people remember is the tournament, get a 1-3 seed and go from there, the season starts in March really.

Who is the best 3 point shooter?
I disagree a little with the star power issue. I thing we have a few potential stars but no returnign "stars" if we want to get picky. KJo is a pre-season 1st all BE. There is a good possibility that KJo could provide the star power. It is also possible that our "really good guys" that are returning are in the way of some star power. Way too early to know how good Christmas and Williams will or can be. I really think MCW is going to eventually force JB to play him...this season.
 

SkanSU

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Two words...De caf
Xanax might be more appropriate ... Remember its never bad to dream would could be rather than what could have been. I would rather drink from a glass half full than half empty. Does anybody else have similar cliches for our Boston friend?
 

orange79

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Xanax might be more appropriate ... Remember its never bad to dream would could be rather than what could have been. I would rather drink from a glass half full than half empty. Does anybody else have similar cliches for our Boston friend?
I understand what he was trying to say. Just seemed a bit too over the top, that's all.
 

RF2044

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Deep but not GREAT anywhere, IMO, Rather have 7 with two stars than 12 really good guys... Depth is great but I don't see the star power or the speed in the backcourt, Like I said there are still going to be a very very good team, Pitt is a lot like this but it tends to **** them in the tournament... We shall see, I am not saying I am right and only time will tell and as I have said about college hoops, the only thing that people remember is the tournament, get a 1-3 seed and go from there, the season starts in March really.

Who is the best 3 point shooter?

Who was duke's GREAT player when they won the national championship two years ago?

This team reminds me a lot of our 2000 squad.
 

SUSScuse

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I remember a team a few years ago that someone said "You don't know who to cover, there all the go to guy."
Hope this years team looks like that one.
Scoop can score,
KJ can score,
BT can score,
CJ can score,
Fab ready to contribute? We'll be hard to stop.
CJ develop an outside Jumper? How do you cover him then?
Looks like if we play solid defense we're going to be pretty good.
 

OrangeinBoston

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Xanax might be more appropriate ... Remember its never bad to dream would could be rather than what could have been. I would rather drink from a glass half full than half empty. Does anybody else have similar cliches for our Boston friend?

Hey, I'm just having a little fun with the preseason optimists. But, I do seriously question the "deep team" argument. If Melo & Keita haven't developed much, how can you be "deep" without a center? If Christmas is just not ready, how can you be "deep" without a power forward? And, what does "deep" mean when JB is only going to play 8 anyway?
 

SkanSU

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Hey, I'm just having a little fun with the preseason optimists. But, I do seriously question the "deep team" argument. If Melo & Keita haven't developed much, how can you be "deep" without a center? If Christmas is just not ready, how can you be "deep" without a power forward? And, what does "deep" mean when JB is only going to play 8 anyway?
Much of what you say is very true ... it is really tough to assess pre-season. The bench will be JB's problem and I don't disagree that we have possible question marks at a lot of the positions (especially the 4 & 5) ... but so does every team at this time of year. It's just nice to start the year with a dream ...
 

baggerbob

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The first team Jim took to the final four in 1987 didn't have any stars, but had talent which blended together as a Team. Sherm hardly played behind Pearl,DC was talented freshman who rebounded and played defense. Rony didn't really come into his own until late in the year Triche and Monroe were solid players Stevie was a spark off the bench Brower was a big body Rodney Walker was the first big man off the bench thru 14 games until he decided to transfer.
 

billsin01

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Deep but not GREAT anywhere, IMO, Rather have 7 with two stars than 12 really good guys... Depth is great but I don't see the star power or the speed in the backcourt, Like I said there are still going to be a very very good team, Pitt is a lot like this but it tends to **** them in the tournament... We shall see, I am not saying I am right and only time will tell and as I have said about college hoops, the only thing that people remember is the tournament, get a 1-3 seed and go from there, the season starts in March really.

Who is the best 3 point shooter?

Yeah, I agree with this. And, if you lack true star power, you at least need to have a lot of guys that go from very good to great offensively in certain areas. The example being the 09-10 team -- which didn't exactly have the star power individually (depending on how you define Johnson, who was outstanding but not necessarily a guy creating his own shots) but had six guys (Johnson-Rautins-AO-RJ-KJ-Jardine) that all played extremely well together and excelled offensively. AO was the go-to guy in the half-court; RJ was an excellent complement in the high post; Rautins took care of the deep ball and was a remarkable passer; Jardine is at his best in the open court, up-tempo game and the same for KJ. They also fit together well defensively.

So this team either needs a star (KJ?) or a bunch of guys playing at a high level and fitting together in such a way that they are a consistently effective team on both ends of the floor. I'm not sure they are either yet.
 

cuseincincy

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Hey, I'm just having a little fun with the preseason optimists. But, I do seriously question the "deep team" argument. If Melo & Keita haven't developed much, how can you be "deep" without a center? If Christmas is just not ready, how can you be "deep" without a power forward? And, what does "deep" mean when JB is only going to play 8 anyway?
Come on OiB...What if Scoop isn't better? What if Triche doesn't shoot more consistently (or often)? What if Fab is the same Fab we saw last year? What if Keita hurts his hand again? What if Christmas is the next Sean Williams? What if KJo keeps charging through guys on the way to the hoop? What if Dion gains weight back and refuses to play defense? What if CJ is only fair? What if MCW is over rated? What if Mookie is our best scorer? What if JSouth rebounds like...well JSouth? What if Trevor Cooney is our best player? What if we have to play a walkon during OT of a BET game? My goodness, this might be a really long year to be wearing orange colored glasses. :bat:
 

OrangeinBoston

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Come on OiB...What if Scoop isn't better? What if Triche doesn't shoot more consistently (or often)? What if Fab is the same Fab we saw last year? What if Keita hurts his hand again? What if Christmas is the next Sean Williams? What if KJo keeps charging through guys on the way to the hoop? What if Dion gains weight back and refuses to play defense? What if CJ is only fair? What if MCW is over rated? What if Mookie is our best scorer? What if JSouth rebounds like...well JSouth? What if Trevor Cooney is our best player? What if we have to play a walkon during OT of a BET game? My goodness, this might be a really long year to be wearing orange colored glasses. :bat:

God! That would REALLY suck! Hey, I hope Fab/Melo have become the two-headed center monster and that Christmas is the second coming of Derrick Coleman. All I'm saying is that we might wish to hold off until maybe half-way through the Fordham game before we come to any conclusions.
 

Zelda Zonk

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The first team Jim took to the final four in 1987 didn't have any stars, but had talent which blended together as a Team. Sherm hardly played behind Pearl,DC was talented freshman who rebounded and played defense. Rony didn't really come into his own until late in the year Triche and Monroe were solid players Stevie was a spark off the bench Brower was a big body Rodney Walker was the first big man off the bench thru 14 games until he decided to transfer.

No stars? You still had THREE NBA players on that team. Players who would eventually become the 1st, 9th, and 28th picks. Plus Triche and Monroe who were as solid as they come. Veterans. We currently have no one as good as Sherm, DC or Rony at their respective positions.
 

cuseincincy

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No stars? You still had THREE NBA players on that team. Plus Triche and Monroe who were as solid as they come. Veterans. We currently have no one as good as Sherm, DC or Rony at their respective positions.
Agreed. But we do have a freshman PF who is coming ranked as high or higher than DC was. We have a returning Soph C, former soccer player from another country that was ranked much higher than Rony ever was. We have at least 4 returning players that are likely as good and solid as Monroe and Triche were. We do not have a Sherm, no question. But we have at least 4 players that can play PG if need be and one of them finished 2nd in the BE last year in assists. We have at least as much raw talent as any SU team since 1988. Seikaly, Sherm, DC, Stevie & Billy, coulda shoudla woulda.
 

OttoMets

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Who was duke's GREAT player when they won the national championship two years ago?

This team reminds me a lot of our 2000 squad.

I appreciate your good counterexample there, but can't we all agree not to discuss Duke and 2010? The very idea that that team a.) got the third #1 seed ahead of us, b.) got the bracket they did, and c.) won the national championship all makes me sick to my stomach.
 

Knicks411

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No stars? You still had THREE NBA players on that team. Players who would eventually become the 1st, 9th, and 28th picks. Plus Triche and Monroe who were as solid as they come. Veterans. We currently have no one as good as Sherm, DC or Rony at their respective positions.

I think the point is more that at the same point in the 87 season as we are now to the 11 season (ie, preseason) we didn't have the star power.
 

Dick_in_MI

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Deep but not GREAT anywhere, IMO, Rather have 7 with two stars than 12 really good guys... Depth is great but I don't see the star power or the speed in the backcourt, Like I said there are still going to be a very very good team, Pitt is a lot like this but it tends to **** them in the tournament... We shall see, I am not saying I am right and only time will tell and as I have said about college hoops, the only thing that people remember is the tournament, get a 1-3 seed and go from there, the season starts in March really.

Who is the best 3 point shooter?

The 2003 team was only great at the 3 and that was only one guy. We have the potential to be better at two other positions than the 2003 team was. "Potential" of course merely means "it ain't happened yet" but I think our starting backcourt improves a notch and four, maybe five guys make major upside moves
 

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