Best P5 CFB HC Jobs - Where do we rank?

Crusty

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Here are a few takes on P5 jobs. Puts things in perspective.

Athlon Sports Ranks 130 CFB HC jobs
Here is what Athlon Sports said about SU:

"58. Syracuse
A national power in the 1950s and ’60s and a consistent top-20 program in the ’80s and ’90s, Syracuse has tumbled down the college football food chain since the turn of the century. It obviously can be done — Dino Babers won 10 games last season — but the Orange have too many built-in disadvantages when compared to many other programs in the league."

Ranking college football's 25 best jobs

Interesting article (June 9. 2020) College football coaching job tiers: Alabama, Texas, USC among most appealing

Not counting the jerks at ND, the ACC has 1 Tier 1; 1 Tier 2, 3 Tier 3; 5 Tier 4 and 4 Tier 5. (Where are we? Tier 5.)
The description of Tier 5 fits us to a T. Sadly however, nowhere are academics mentioned.

With the indoor practive facility, dome renovations and the $35 million gift from John Lally (thanks John - you also cto) it is reasonalbe to expect us to be able to move up a notch to Tier 4.

Tier 1 jobs: Great location with excellent access to elite regional and national recruits; strong infrastructure and commitment from university and athletic administration; few financial limitations on assistant coach and staff hires; history as a top-5 program (recent or long term).
Alabama, Clemson, Florida, Georgia, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Texas, USC

Tier 2 jobs:
Very good location and/or access to top 300 recruits; no major limitations around facilities, coaching salaries or support staff; the ability to win a national title occasionally and compete regularly for conference championships; consistent top-20 finishes (recent or long term). Auburn, Florida State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Oregon, Penn State, Texas A&M, Washington

Tier 3 jobs:
Good location and/or access to regional recruits; solid facilities and salary pool for assistants and support staff; adequate administrative/fan support with occasional challenges; a place that should regularly contend for division titles and occasionally win the league with a College Football Playoff appearance as a realistic ceiling. Arizona State, Baylor, Iowa, Louisville, Miami, Michigan State, Nebraska, Oklahoma State, Stanford, TCU, Tennessee, UCLA, Utah, Virginia Tech, Wisconsin

Tier 4 jobs:
Recruiting or resource restrictions that make player development a focal point; strong facilities but average overall infrastructure in their conferences; limitations with administrative/fan support; a consistent bowl team that competes for division titles, league titles and New Year's Six bowls a few times per decade. Arkansas, Cal, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Kansas State, Kentucky, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi State, Missouri, North Carolina, NC State, Northwestern, Ole Miss, Pitt, Purdue, South Carolina, Texas Tech, Virginia, Washington State, West Virginia

Tier 5 jobs
: Limited recruiting reach that requires a developmental approach; decent and functional facilities; some administrative and booster support with realistic expectations; a job where bowl eligibility is still typically celebrated, and the occasional 10-win season, division title or major bowl appearance is a big deal. Arizona, Boston College, Duke, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa State, Kansas, Oregon State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest

I have to say that there are a great many G5 jobs more appealing that ours. Houston, UCF, Cincinnati, SMU (yeah SMU), maybe Coastal Carolina and App State. Also, the service academies, if that is your flavor.

For all those intent on changing coaches every 5 years this should be a cautionary tale. Our job is one of least sought after jobs in P5 (and beyond).

Virtually everyone holds Cutliffe in high regard. He deals with the same restictions and we do. In his 13-years as HC of Duke he has only had only 5 winning seasons and complied a 74-87 (460) record made 6 bowls and won 3. He had losing seasons in his first 5. In his 6 seasons at Mississippt State he went 44-29 (602) was 25-23 vs SEC opponnets and made 4 bowls. (he coached only 1 game in 1998 so I ignored that bowl).

Point is the same guy who won in the SEC loses in the ACC. Did he forget how to couch? To recruit? Resources matter. The coaching ranks are littered with genius head coaches that failed miserably when they moved to more difficult or competitive programs.

Our best move - our only move - is to get behind DIno like Duke stands with Cutliffe. Doesn't mean we can't complain and doesn't mean we can't vent, but it does mean that our head coaches need to be marked on a curve until we have the resources to attract recruiting classes that are not at the bottom of the ACC EVERY year.
 

Trueblue25

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i think we see significantly more donor bucks hit the program if you string two bowls together and continue recruiting well.

2019 could have been huge for this program, the corner was there to be turned.
 
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Crusty

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i think we see significantly most donor bucks hit the program if you string two bowls together and continue recruiting well.

2019 could have been huge for this program, the corner was there to be turned.
AND I think it can be done. If not 2021-2022 then 2022-2023.
 

Trueblue25

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AND I think it can be done. If not 2021-2022 then 2022-2023.
It can be. After a lot of reflection following this season I think there’s still a few reasons not to write off Babers yet despite some arguably emotionally charged posts from many well respected contributors here...and lesser ones like myself :cool:

6 wins, 10 wins, who gives a damn. Just get two winning seasons strung together andget the casuals to stop laughing
 

007

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i think we see significantly most donor bucks hit the program if you string two bowls together and continue recruiting well.

2019 could have been huge for this program, the corner was there to be turned.
The big donor $$$ is tied to belief in the AD, his vision, and his ability to fundraise. It has taken some time to recover from the Gross Era in this regard. Things are happening behind the scenes. We are in good hands with Wildhack.
 

Trueblue25

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The big donor $$$ is tied to belief in the AD, his vision, and his ability to fundraise. It has taken some time to recover from the Gross Era in this regard. Things are happening behind the scenes. We are in good hands with Wildhack.

only makes it easier for the AD to entice wealthy alumni if he has an exciting game day experience and a believable product to show them. ADJW’s doing all the right things behind the scenes imo. Dino’s gotta throw him a bone now
 

007

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only makes it easier for the AD to entice wealthy alumni if he has an exciting game day experience and a believable product to show them. ADJW’s doing all the right things behind the scenes imo. Dino’s gotta throw him a bone now
I'm trying to tell you that big, private money commitments are already in process and will be combined with the Lally gift. The primary impetus for that is the belief in the AD, not necessarily the product currently on the field. The investments in the program are for the long term. The hope is that Dino will have a more level playing field relative to our peers in the ACC. Chicken -> egg
 

Trueblue25

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I'm trying to tell you that big, private money commitments are already in process and will be combined with the Lally gift. The primary impetus for that is the belief in the AD, not necessarily the product currently on the field. The investments in the program are for the long term. The hope is that Dino will have a more level playing field relative to our peers in the ACC. Chicken -> egg
Ah well thats massively encouraging. Big fan of ADJW
 

orangecuse

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The big donor $$$ is tied to belief in the AD, his vision, and his ability to fundraise. It has taken some time to recover from the Gross Era in this regard. Things are happening behind the scenes. We are in good hands with Wildhack.

You've been pitching this "behind the scenes" mantra for a bit now. I'm not questioning your apparent private knowledge you may have, but in the end it's all relative I presume. One can only imagine what the relevant football programs of today are already doing, behind the scenes, not to mention what they probably have in the works, planning, etc. for the future. SU, being non-innovators in that regard, and seemingly always a day late and a dollar short, will continue to be laggards moving forward. A skeptical/pessimistic view perhaps, however, it aligns I surmise on the same plane/reality encompassing the premise that 'winning is hard/it's hard to win here.'
 

Crusty

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You've been pitching this "behind the scenes" mantra for a bit now. I'm not questioning your apparent private knowledge you may have, but in the end it's all relative I presume. One can only imagine what the relevant football programs of today are already doing, behind the scenes, not to mention what they probably have in the works, planning, etc. for the future. SU, being non-innovators in that regard, and seemingly always a day late and a dollar short, will continue to be laggards moving forward. A skeptical/pessimistic view perhaps, however, it aligns I surmise on the same plane/reality encompassing the premise that 'winning is hard/it's hard to win here.'
I have always believed that there are threshold resource levels for each tier. Doesn't matter where u r within the tier so long as you have relatively comparable resources.

Having the resources to move up a tier is what we need next. Don't have to have the best/most in the tier, just have to meet the threshold.

Looks to me like we are poised to move to tier 4. We'll worry about tier 3 later.
 

007

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You've been pitching this "behind the scenes" mantra for a bit now. I'm not questioning your apparent private knowledge you may have, but in the end it's all relative I presume. One can only imagine what the relevant football programs of today are already doing, behind the scenes, not to mention what they probably have in the works, planning, etc. for the future. SU, being non-innovators in that regard, and seemingly always a day late and a dollar short, will continue to be laggards moving forward. A skeptical/pessimistic view perhaps, however, it aligns I surmise on the same plane/reality encompassing the premise that 'winning is hard/it's hard to win here.'
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, Grasshopper.
 

orangecuse

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The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, Grasshopper.

When referencing such a particular saying, you should place it in quotations, Greenhorn.
 

Shrmdougluvr

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I dunno. Dino made roughly $3.2 m per win this year. We could barely string together consecutive first downs. Seat not even luke warm. Only one media member is critical, and the masses think he's a dork.

Seems like a pretty sweet gig to me.
 
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SUskibum

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only makes it easier for the AD to entice wealthy alumni if he has an exciting game day experience and a believable product to show them. ADJW’s doing all the right things behind the scenes imo. Dino’s gotta throw him a bone now
Dino has thrown a few bones. Several Top 25 wins, the best win In 30 years, the best season in 20 years, the best offense in 20 years.

He just needs to go from occasionally great to consistently good (and occasionally great).

Winning is an obvious thing Dino must get back to and i think he will, I also think ADJW should have a chat with Dino that fans and alumni support matter and sometimes that means doing things that Dino may not be comfortable with. Eg, more transparency, more fan engagement, more overall fan friendliness. If your going to run the program in complete secrecy, there is no room for error in the w/l column (like 8-10 wins per year)
 

MSOrange

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Dino has thrown a few bones. Several Top 25 wins, the best win In 30 years, the best season in 20 years, the best offense in 20 years.

He just needs to go from occasionally great to consistently good (and occasionally great).

Winning is an obvious thing Dino must get back to and i think he will, I also think ADJW should have a chat with Dino that fans and alumni support matter and sometimes that means doing things that Dino may not be comfortable with. Eg, more transparency, more fan engagement, more overall fan friendliness. If your going to run the program in complete secrecy, there is no room for error in the w/l column (like 8-10 wins per year)

100% agree with the bolded part. We have some great diehard fans, but let's be honest, it's not part of the culture like it is in some places. Dino has to meet us halfway when it comes to fan engagement activities to generate some interest and excitement, even among the donors to feel like they are getting something for their money.
 

Modern Coac

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Right now a lower tier P5, but that can change rapidly with a HC who can recruit. You are what your record says you are applies here. You are lower tier if you always finish lower tier.

However...that can be changed pretty fast. Especially with new transfer rule. Results can flip fast

Malzahn would be a name to open doors and make inroads to southern speed. Not everyone plays at Bama or Georgia
 

Crusty

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Right now a lower tier P5, but that can change rapidly with a HC who can recruit. You are what your record says you are applies here. You are lower tier if you always finish lower tier.

However...that can be changed pretty fast. Especially with new transfer rule. Results can flip fast

Malzahn would be a name to open doors and make inroads to southern speed. Not everyone plays at Bama or Georgia
I guess you missed the point.
 

CU44SE

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Interesting list. Some I disagree with, which I’m sure others will too. Some are surprises, because 10-15 years ago some of these programs were not in the conversation. Shows what winning can do. It can deffinetly alter the perception of what a good job is. Three observations though that kind of stuck out.

1- Michigan is a national program, but it feels like they have been through 4-5 coaches in last 20 years. How are they ahead of ND who has the history and the recent history. I know many hate ND, but the only thing Michigan has over ND IMO is the big house.

2- Not sure why Washington is so high. They are top 20, and before Peterson they had a very long lull. IMO no way they are ahead of Oregon, Miami, Oklahoma St, va tech, ole miss, Wisconsin. All are pretty fertile recruiting bases with big followings and nice amenities.

3- Baylor had 16 winning seasons in the previous 50 years before 2010 when briles was there. They had one season in those 50 years with double digit wins. They now have only 1 double digit winning season since briles left. Not sure why they are ahead of some teams.

LASTLY, UMASS IS 129 OUT OF 130. THEY MUST NOT KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO THE BIG TEN!!!! SLEEPING GIANT!!!
 

OrangeDW

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One thing about this past season...I think the lack of fans affected us more than “peer schools” like Duke, Pitt, BC, Wake.

They don’t really get raucous crowds that affect the game. We do...not because we have great fans, but because we have a roof.

It’s maybe the only unique advantage we have that others can’t match, and we missed it this year. IMO. Can’t prove it, but I don’t feel like we pull off games like VT in ‘16 or Clemson ‘17 with no fans in the stands.
 

FreakTalksAboutSU

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Well they certainly got the "realistic expectations" part right around these parts lol...

I had no idea Arizona was so meh a gig. I knew it wasnt an elite level program, but I would never have slotted it with SU and Rutgers
 

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