Boeheim‘s zone

[Slugo]

Long time listener, first time caller. I have always loved Boeheim’s zone. I disagree with the notion that zone is antiquated. When we had the right people, it was a beautiful dance. It made Syracuse unique and tough to handle. It gave us a shot at a number of f4s where we were a lower seed. We were extremely successful during the Brandon Triche era. We couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean but no one could score on us. The Boeheim zone is lethal with the right athletes. This line up looks good for zone. Just my opinion.

 

[Eric15]

Welcome to the board. I know that first post can be a little daunting.

I’m fine with playing zone in certain circumstances. I just don’t want to play it 100% of the time and base our entire recruiting strategy around it.

 

[Slugo]

Agreed. But big guards at the point and shot blockers at center and pf. I miss that.

 

[Slugo]

And traps

 

[stuckinbig11]

The zone worked because JB is a basketball genius and knew how to tweak it.

 

[Brooky03]

The unfortunate thing about the JB zone is it has to be the 100% of the time defense (or realistically 80-90%) to have a chance at working. If it’s a ‘sometimes’ defense mixed in with m2m, it’ll be garbage; both will be garbage.

Also, the transition away from players who stick around 2-3 years makes it very hard to teach and learn all of the rotations. The rotations have to be 2nd nature. Transfers aren’t going to get there in one offseason.

 

[newmexicuse]

Thx for posting, but I totally disagree. The game has changed. In the heyday of the Zone most teams had at most two effective long range gunners. Now almost every team can put at LEAST three trey threats on the floor simultaneously. No matter how good the athletes playing the Zone may be, they cant move faster than the ball. Any good team can now crack the Zone and find the open shot. That is not to mention the negative effect the Zone has on rebounding.

 

[BBQuse]

I have always loved Boeheim’s zone. I disagree with the notion that zone is antiquated.

There is still a time and place for it, but the players need to buy in and be long and super athletic. It’s great as a change of pace, to trap and to exploit matchups. But to play it 24/7 just won’t work in this day and age.

For me, what really killed the efficacy of the zone was the movement of the 3 point line and increased emphasis on three point shooting. It just stretched the zone so much that, unless you forced teams into bad shooting nights, we were just spread too far out to stop the inside stuff (or the opposite, we couldn’t get out to the shooters on the wings). And we just couldn’t rebound.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Long time listener, first time caller. I have always loved Boeheim’s zone. I disagree with the notion that zone is antiquated. When we had the right people, it was a beautiful dance. It made Syracuse unique and tough to handle. It gave us a shot at a number of f4s where we were a lower seed. We were extremely successful during the Brandon Triche era. We couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean but no one could score on us. The Boeheim zone is lethal with the right athletes. This line up looks good for zone. Just my opinion.

even if you have the perfect roster, which certainly isnt an annual occurence, the zone takes a while for players to learn, it requires PROGRAM CONTINUITY

plus, as other posters have mentioned, the "curry effect" on basketball as a whole means that the average team now is littered with good 3pt specialists...most teams now have enough shooting to kill a zone...whereas,in the past, few did.

with the absolute perfect roster of players experienced in a zone, it could work. in the portal era of new rosters every year, AND with a coach who hasnt shown he can implement his schemes before Feb/March...zone is a bad idea, imo. what made boeheims zone good was that he would do micro-tweaks throughout a game to force opponents to beat him the way he decided...red aint gonna be able to do that if he does a zone for a number of reasons, as listed above.

looking at the current roster, it seems they may revert to zone...and if so, I doubt it will be good enough to do well in OOC...and basically not until well into the season, if ever.

saying all that, yeah, we are probably getting zone back SMH

 

[kingtidge]

Reasons why NOT to play Boeheim zone as the primary defense:

1. The best players have zero interest in playing zone as a primary defense today and it significantly limits your recruiting strategy
2. See reason # 1

It is known.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We all need to agree that those teams from 2012 and 2013 would have been great at mtm also? It wasn’t like they were a bunch of non athletes. MCW, Triche and Dion would have shut people down playing man.

 

[FrancoPizza]

There is still a time and place for it, but the players need to buy in and be long and super athletic.

If that’s the case then you’re better off just teaching them to play good man in today’s game.

 

[FrancoPizza]

We all need to agree that those teams from 2012 and 2013 would have been great at mtm also? It wasn’t like they were a bunch of non athletes. MCW, Triche and Dion would have shut people down playing man.

Yes… assuming they had a good m2m coach.

 

[Oakland]

Reasons why NOT to play Boeheim zone as the primary defense:

1. The best players have zero interest in playing zone as a primary defense today and it significantly limits your recruiting strategy
2. See reason # 1

It is known.

This.

Reason #2 is that the zone's weakness is ineffective defensive rebounding - especially if you are running your center out to cover the corner.

While I agree that better and more 3 point shooting puts more pressure on the zone, the bigger problem that leads to more made 3s against it, is that the opponents get more offensive rebounds and have more second chances to make a three.

 

[shu 49]

Long time listener, first time caller. I have always loved Boeheim’s zone. I disagree with the notion that zone is antiquated. When we had the right people, it was a beautiful dance. It made Syracuse unique and tough to handle. It gave us a shot at a number of f4s where we were a lower seed. We were extremely successful during the Brandon Triche era. We couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean but no one could score on us. The Boeheim zone is lethal with the right athletes. This line up looks good for zone. Just my opinion.

Our zone went down when we had less length but also we stopped doubling in corners and started doing it outside front court. it turned into a 3-2 cause the forward on ball side would help double guard and it never worked. our 2 guys up top need to stay there and play with length. Guards play tough with handsup in passing lane which i hadnt seen since Rautins. When we switched to up top double we sucked.

 

[tbonezone]

If that’s the case then you’re better off just teaching them to play good man in today’s game.

any coach worth his salt should be able to play both effectively and switch up depending on game situation.

 

[Brooky03]

Reasons why NOT to play Boeheim zone as the primary defense:

1. The best players have zero interest in playing zone as a primary defense today and it significantly limits your recruiting strategy
2. See reason # 1

It is known.

I don’t doubt this is true but it did always confuse me. The JB zone is m2m except off the ball. There’s no passing ballhandlers off (not ones who are doing anything; sure, if they’re just screwing around at the perimeter you’ll switch). So your on-ball m2m skills don’t suffer at all. Off-ball m2m is the difference and seems like a fringe thing to be worried about. Also, it’s not like playing zone makes you forget how to chase a dude around the court. You still have to fight through screens in the zone and decide to go over/under them.

 

[tbonezone]

The JB zone is m2m except off the ball.

say what ? . jb zone was always 3 steps back . open outside jumpers with the center covering corners and zero box out rebounding ? JB's parlor bet was that he'd surrender the three to protect his shallow line up from fouls and expending too much energy on d. the "i'll give up this / take that " philosophy really unravelled when the novelty wore off and teams got really comfortable recognizing and attacking it inside/out and the 3 point shot became the weapon of choice in basketball. his only fall back was the TRUNK MONKEY. too proud to play M2M.
JB was a dinosaur who died not by asteroid (although the program took several meteor strikes) , but rather by evolution . too old and too stubborn to adapt to a new reality . thus we became easy prey. thus we ceased to matter. thus spake the bone.

 

[23Zone]

It was a zone with man to man principles. Onions!

 

[Brooky03]

say what ? . jb zone was always 3 steps back . open outside jumpers with the center covering corners and zero box out rebounding ? JB's parlor bet was that he'd surrender the three to protect his shallow line up from fouls and expending too much energy on d. the "i'll give up this / take that " philosophy really unravelled when the novelty wore off and teams got really comfortable recognizing and attacking it inside/out and the 3 point shot became the weapon of choice in basketball. his only fall back was the TRUNK MONKEY. too proud to play M2M.
JB was a dinosaur who died not by asteroid (although the program took several meteor strikes) , but rather by evolution . too old and too stubborn to adapt to a new reality . thus we became easy prey. thus we ceased to matter. thus spake the bone.

No

 

[JeffCuse]

Long time listener, first time caller. I have always loved Boeheim’s zone. I disagree with the notion that zone is antiquated. When we had the right people, it was a beautiful dance. It made Syracuse unique and tough to handle. It gave us a shot at a number of f4s where we were a lower seed. We were extremely successful during the Brandon Triche era. We couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean but no one could score on us. The Boeheim zone is lethal with the right athletes. This line up looks good for zone. Just my opinion.

The zone, IMO, stopped being affective when shooting the 3 went off the charts. Now, every team from the biggest to the smallest seems to have multiple kids who can drain 40% of their 3 pointers (well, almost any team...lol).

This is a big part of the reason I feel like we often lost to lesser teams. The zone, IMO, is outdated.

 

[ar inj]

What would Boeheim play today if he was starting a new program?

From a June 8, 2023, article in the Atlantic:

“Man-to-man,” he says before the question is even finished being asked. “Just too many good shooters. Too many coaches that know how to attack zones. I would try to play almost 90 percent man, but I’d like to have a good enough zone to play 10-20 percent.”

 

[grepal]

The unfortunate thing about the JB zone is it has to be the 100% of the time defense (or realistically 80-90%) to have a chance at working. If it’s a ‘sometimes’ defense mixed in with m2m, it’ll be garbage; both will be garbage.

Also, the transition away from players who stick around 2-3 years makes it very hard to teach and learn all of the rotations. The rotations have to be 2nd nature. Transfers aren’t going to get there in one offseason.

I disagree, think about St. Johns and Carnasecca with his good teams with the seldom used zone. They called it "The Bush."