Carrier Dome would have been torn down, if new Syracuse stadium went u | Syracusefan.com

Carrier Dome would have been torn down, if new Syracuse stadium went u

cuseinchina

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The dome is the Berlin Wall of that campus. Granted its really only Esf and a couple of not very nice dorms that are separated. But it creates wind tunnels and the outside is not pedestrian friendly. I love the dome but if its going to be replaced then that real estate is way too valuable for the university not to tear it down. They can only push so far beyond Marshall street in their development...
 

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I think Mahoney needs to keep talking since she's starting to spill more details. If she had this wonderful idea months ago, why wasn't Minor brought in earlier?

Would also like to know what SU "renting" this arena would have meant in terms of practice space, etc? Even when the IPF is built, that space and Manley can't fit all the SU teams during winter/bad weather practices.
 

Moontan

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I think Mahoney needs to keep talking since she's starting to spill more details. If she had this wonderful idea months ago, why wasn't Minor brought in earlier?

Would also like to know what SU "renting" this arena would have meant in terms of practice space, etc? Even when the IPF is built, that space and Manley can't fit all the SU teams during winter/bad weather practices.
Sure it can…. it actually provides more space than today. During hoops season, 1/2 the Dome is typically unavailable for the non-basketball teams who don’t need it any way. Don’t be suprised to see the IPF used by the full field sports more than the Dome was. It’s a lot closer by.

It’s a simple matter of scheduling with the football team getting highest priority. It’s a waste to have the IPF sit empty when other teams have an actual need.
 

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The point of the IPF is to be a football facility like Melo is for basketball. In order to do this, it can't be booked from 6 AM until 10 PM like Manley is now. These other teams are going to want to use the IPF because the Manley turf isn't the full-size field for any of them. I've e

If SU's solution is to let football schedule times and then book it the rest of the day, it defeats the purpose. Yes, it should be shared, but that shared time should be limited. If Hunt and Estime want to run routes, then they shouldn't have to wait until 5 other teams finish using the facility.

Sorry, not trying to start an argument, but SU has made some very short-sighted decisions in the last few years and they have only been band-aids. I hope that replacing the Dome is done in a manner where football isn't back to sharing a facility with 10 other teams.
 

orange79

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The dome is the Berlin Wall of that campus. Granted its really only Esf and a couple of not very nice dorms that are separated. But it creates wind tunnels and the outside is not pedestrian friendly. I love the dome but if its going to be replaced then that real estate is way too valuable for the university not to tear it down. They can only push so far beyond Marshall street in their development...
Mr. Syverud - tear down this Dome.
 

cusefan88

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When the Dome goes down I want a silver bench...maybe a blue chair.
 

retro44

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It will be torn down (in favor of academic use)…. it’s just a matter of when.

no doubt at all...their engineers and architects were talking about this 6-7 years ago when I worked up on the hill.
 

Moontan

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The point of the IPF is to be a football facility like Melo is for basketball.
And it will be...

There are only so many team practices that require a full field. If during the non-football practice period some of the other sports each get 2 hours per week in the IPF (think lax in Jan & Feb) then that's not a big deal.

Most teams prefer to practice outside. Even with the IPF, the football team will still spend at least half of its Spring practice schedule outside.
 

supp

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The more details come out, the more I'm glad that the parties involved are going to pump the brakes and work out the kinks in this deal.

So the potential cost of the multi-purpose stadium is $500 million. The upper limit of state aid is $200 million, the private owner/operator would kick in $100 million for a 30-year lease of the building and get some $5.4 million in rent per year from SU as the primary tenant (I would assume). Good deal for them, as they would double or triple their investment over the course of 30-year lease (counting the Crunch's rent and concessions/parking). But is the yearly rent SU's total contribution to the deal? Do they not kick in money for the construction of the project? If not, where does the remaining $200 million come from? Is this the County's contribution of "several million dollars"?

The County would be taking on millions in debt in the form of bonds but how do they plan to pay down that debt? They would own the building but they're essentially turning it over to a private operator for most if not all of its life for $100 million? Before you scoff at that, the Dome is 33 years old and we've been talking about replacing it for 10 years. Not sure that Mahoney has worked out the greatest deal for the taxpayer on that front. The City of Louisville mostly funded the Yum! Center but in return they have yearly revenue streams in rent from UL (even if it is obscenely favorable to UL). They have recently had to create a TIF district around the arena to balance the books.

Here we have Onondaga County pitching in a big chunk of the money for the building but seemingly selling their share in it for 50 cents or less on the dollar. Where will the County get the money to pay for the bonds that will be floated? Increased sales taxes? Even if there's an attendance boost, we're talking $7-8 million in debt servicing per year for this project. You're not going to get that much in sales tax. Raising the county's hotel tax? Raising property taxes? [gasp!]

The proposed financing for this project is predicated on an immediate and sustained attendance jump in football and undoubtedly a substantial rise in ticket prices. Will more people come? One thing that you can be sure of: the $100 end zone tickets are gone with this project. Will more people come to Kennedy Square or will the suburbanites think that's too "dangerous" a neighborhood to bring their families? Will they be willing to spend more money on tickets and concessions/parking when they can watch it on tv?
 

KellySyracuse

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...

The proposed financing for this project is predicated on an immediate and sustained attendance jump in football and undoubtedly a substantial rise in ticket prices. Will more people come? One thing that you can be sure of: the $100 end zone tickets are gone with this project. Will more people come to Kennedy Square or will the suburbanites think that's too "dangerous" a neighborhood to bring their families? Will they be willing to spend more money on tickets and concessions/parking when they can watch it on tv?

when you make it the hottest place to be, which it will be as soon as it's done, there will be no issue with selling tickets. Jesus, look how fast tickets went this year for home basketball games. Football is on the cusp of greatness. Mark my words, we're not that far from Don McPherson revisited.
 

GoSU96

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Right now the Dome and War Memorial don't contribute a dime in property taxes. On top of that the County has the O&M cost for the War Memorial.

What's the NPV of those trades?
 

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And it will be...

There are only so many team practices that require a full field. If during the non-football practice period some of the other sports each get 2 hours per week in the IPF (think lax in Jan & Feb) then that's not a big deal.

Most teams prefer to practice outside. Even with the IPF, the football team will still spend at least half of its Spring practice schedule outside.

Both lax teams practice a minimum of 2 hours per day and yes they prefer to be outside, but let's face it, that doesn't happen consistently until March. They use Manley, but it's not a full field for them so they'd prefer to have 100 yards in the IPF to work with.

Even the soccer/field hockey teams who are out of season will be holding "voluntary" practices that are closer to 15-20 hours a week. Stop over to Manley sometime and see all that is going on in there. It was a stop-gap solution, which has certainly helped, but it's not a big enough area for any of the SU teams to have an optimal practice.
 

Moontan

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Both lax teams practice a minimum of 2 hours per day and yes they prefer to be outside, but let's face it, that doesn't happen consistently until March. They use Manley, but it's not a full field for them so they'd prefer to have 100 yards in the IPF to work with.
Manley's not going away. If the lax teams each got two IPF practices a week it would be an improvement for them. Out of season sports have the lowest priority. If they want some full field time, then they can get a weekend slot.

There are no organized football practices until Spring ball. Yes, players still would like to practice and would be able to do so at the IPF with the exception of a consistent time slot each day.

Would a 2nd IPF be better? Sure, but that's not happening. Maybe they should build a "double wide". :)
Manley serves that role. I'm not aware of any other schools that have 2 (or 3) indoor facilities of any type. Some P-5 schools don't have any, including UGA.

Even without sharing the IPF, its existence will free up some practice time at Manley. Do some minimal sharing and even more Manley time is made available. It's a win for all field-based programs.
 

rrlbees

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retro44 said:
no doubt at all...their engineers and architects were talking about this 6-7 years ago when I worked up on the hill.

You knew for 6-7 years. Why did I feel like a man on an island when I said for years that was the plan?
 

FAL

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The more details come out, the more I'm glad that the parties involved are going to pump the brakes and work out the kinks in this deal.

So the potential cost of the multi-purpose stadium is $500 million. The upper limit of state aid is $200 million, the private owner/operator would kick in $100 million for a 30-year lease of the building and get some $5.4 million in rent per year from SU as the primary tenant (I would assume). Good deal for them, as they would double or triple their investment over the course of 30-year lease (counting the Crunch's rent and concessions/parking). But is the yearly rent SU's total contribution to the deal? Do they not kick in money for the construction of the project? If not, where does the remaining $200 million come from? Is this the County's contribution of "several million dollars"?

The County would be taking on millions in debt in the form of bonds but how do they plan to pay down that debt? They would own the building but they're essentially turning it over to a private operator for most if not all of its life for $100 million? Before you scoff at that, the Dome is 33 years old and we've been talking about replacing it for 10 years. Not sure that Mahoney has worked out the greatest deal for the taxpayer on that front. The City of Louisville mostly funded the Yum! Center but in return they have yearly revenue streams in rent from UL (even if it is obscenely favorable to UL). They have recently had to create a TIF district around the arena to balance the books.

Here we have Onondaga County pitching in a big chunk of the money for the building but seemingly selling their share in it for 50 cents or less on the dollar. Where will the County get the money to pay for the bonds that will be floated? Increased sales taxes? Even if there's an attendance boost, we're talking $7-8 million in debt servicing per year for this project. You're not going to get that much in sales tax. Raising the county's hotel tax? Raising property taxes? [gasp!]

The proposed financing for this project is predicated on an immediate and sustained attendance jump in football and undoubtedly a substantial rise in ticket prices. Will more people come? One thing that you can be sure of: the $100 end zone tickets are gone with this project. Will more people come to Kennedy Square or will the suburbanites think that's too "dangerous" a neighborhood to bring their families? Will they be willing to spend more money on tickets and concessions/parking when they can watch it on tv?


OUCH! A dose of reality! That's not fair! ;)
 

sutomcat

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You knew for 6-7 years. Why did I feel like a man on an island when I said for years that was the plan?

There have been a few of us on that island for some time now...
 

Millhouse

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The more details come out, the more I'm glad that the parties involved are going to pump the brakes and work out the kinks in this deal.

So the potential cost of the multi-purpose stadium is $500 million. The upper limit of state aid is $200 million, the private owner/operator would kick in $100 million for a 30-year lease of the building and get some $5.4 million in rent per year from SU as the primary tenant (I would assume). Good deal for them, as they would double or triple their investment over the course of 30-year lease (counting the Crunch's rent and concessions/parking). But is the yearly rent SU's total contribution to the deal? Do they not kick in money for the construction of the project? If not, where does the remaining $200 million come from? Is this the County's contribution of "several million dollars"?

The County would be taking on millions in debt in the form of bonds but how do they plan to pay down that debt? They would own the building but they're essentially turning it over to a private operator for most if not all of its life for $100 million? Before you scoff at that, the Dome is 33 years old and we've been talking about replacing it for 10 years. Not sure that Mahoney has worked out the greatest deal for the taxpayer on that front. The City of Louisville mostly funded the Yum! Center but in return they have yearly revenue streams in rent from UL (even if it is obscenely favorable to UL). They have recently had to create a TIF district around the arena to balance the books.

Here we have Onondaga County pitching in a big chunk of the money for the building but seemingly selling their share in it for 50 cents or less on the dollar. Where will the County get the money to pay for the bonds that will be floated? Increased sales taxes? Even if there's an attendance boost, we're talking $7-8 million in debt servicing per year for this project. You're not going to get that much in sales tax. Raising the county's hotel tax? Raising property taxes? [gasp!]

The proposed financing for this project is predicated on an immediate and sustained attendance jump in football and undoubtedly a substantial rise in ticket prices. Will more people come? One thing that you can be sure of: the $100 end zone tickets are gone with this project. Will more people come to Kennedy Square or will the suburbanites think that's too "dangerous" a neighborhood to bring their families? Will they be willing to spend more money on tickets and concessions/parking when they can watch it on tv?
lots of blanks to be filled in with "require some support from city hall"
 

xc84

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The point of the IPF is to be a football facility like Melo is for basketball.
I don't think that is really true.

While the football program will be the main tenant of the new center, all Syracuse Athletics programs will have access and use of the center to better develop student-athlete performance and provide a student-athlete experience at Syracuse University second to none.
 

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