Cheating is cheating | Syracusefan.com

Cheating is cheating

J

JoeySimz

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Is cheating. And really big cheating is really unfair.

I started a separate thread bc I feel like something's missing.

Seems like most are focusing on the topic of amateurism and how it relates to the scandal.
I just saw Jay Bilas go on and on about the ncaa's hypocrisy. This is all fair and valid imo, and I tend to agree. However, where is all the talk about cheating? (And lying?) Why didn't he mention his alma mater and their recruiting dominance? For example, as least entertain the implications for K and current players. Doesn't espn love a good Duke story? If the Syracuse investigation turned up peanuts (i'm pretty sure he called it that), then what do you call this? Because it dwarfs what we got dinged for.

I'm hearing lots of talk excusing players for being taken advantage of and coaches being victims of this corrupt system where agents and shoe companies have too much influence. Fair in some instances, maybe. But, the coaches know who the agents are and the best players and their families are aware of agents from a young age. Are we all that naive to believe they don't know what's going on? Mistakes are mistakes, but come on...

And even in a fantasy world where these coaches and players had no idea their families were getting paid by agents, the fact remains that rules were broken and they gained an unfair advantage, a huuuge advantage in this case.

Incredible how many names on the list are recruits we missed on, or key players on teams in our new conference that we've had trouble keeping up with while on sanctions. Teams who we are in direct competition with.

And where were the UNCheat signs at the dome on Wednesday?

Now I'm angry so I'm going to the court and the first person who travels is catching hell. I hope JB spits on his hand before shaking K's on Saturday. Just kidding, just kidding...kind of
 
What was Wendell Carter found to have done? Did i miss something? I thought the documents asserted his mother was taken to lunch once. Was there more? If i were Bilas, i don't think i'd cast the same shadow over my alma mater for that level of 'infraction' if it actually was an infraction.

re: their recruiting dominance — how is that related to the FBI investigation unless it has been shown that someone was paid? I didn't read anything that makes that claim about Duke yet. About Carter — when was that lunch? After he signed with Duke? If so, i don't see a competitive advantage even if it broke an NCAA rule.

"Believe me" — when i saw Duke's name mentioned in the headlines, i was hoping for some "bombshell" that would illuminate fraud, but i haven't seen it.
 
What was Wendell Carter found to have done? Did i miss something? I thought the documents asserted his mother was taken to lunch once. Was there more? If i were Bilas, i don't think i'd cast the same shadow over my alma mater for that level of 'infraction' if it actually was an infraction.

re: their recruiting dominance — how is that related to the FBI investigation unless it has been shown that someone was paid? I didn't read anything that makes that claim about Duke yet. About Carter — when was that lunch? After he signed with Duke? If so, i don't see a competitive advantage even if it broke an NCAA rule.

"Believe me" — when i saw Duke's name mentioned in the headlines, i was hoping for some "bombshell" that would illuminate fraud, but i haven't seen it.
I agree. I must admit, I probably came too hard with the Duke stuff! Lol. I wasn't referring to Carter specifically. I was just using them as an example because names were named and eventhough it was just a lunch supposedly and a name on a piece of paper at this point, it would seem fairly relevant when the name is arguably on the most famous coach/program/recruiter in college hoops. It wasn't a problem for Bilas to say "wrongdoing" ocurred when it was about Syracuse while still criticizing the ncaa.
 
Very disappointed in Bilas. What does he tell the teams that abide by the rules, " Too bad you guys were such rubes and tools?'. And that is the problem. The teams that abide by the rules have been defrauded of opportunities and money. If those teams wage a class action lawsuit against the NCAA and the cheating schools, I'm sure a jury will award the biggest compensation in history to them. These Universities have giant endowments and trail lawyers will go on a shark like feeding frenzy.
 
Bilas has created this wise old owl persona but the fact is he's as guilty as all the media who turned a blind eye. He's tough on officials and the NCAA but sucks up to every coach. He bullies low hanging fruit
 
What was Wendell Carter found to have done? Did i miss something? I thought the documents asserted his mother was taken to lunch once. Was there more? If i were Bilas, i don't think i'd cast the same shadow over my alma mater for that level of 'infraction' if it actually was an infraction.

re: their recruiting dominance — how is that related to the FBI investigation unless it has been shown that someone was paid? I didn't read anything that makes that claim about Duke yet. About Carter — when was that lunch? After he signed with Duke? If so, i don't see a competitive advantage even if it broke an NCAA rule.

"Believe me" — when i saw Duke's name mentioned in the headlines, i was hoping for some "bombshell" that would illuminate fraud, but i haven't seen it.
What was discussed at the lunch? And who's to say it ended there?
 
What was Wendell Carter found to have done? Did i miss something? I thought the documents asserted his mother was taken to lunch once. Was there more? If i were Bilas, i don't think i'd cast the same shadow over my alma mater for that level of 'infraction' if it actually was an infraction.

re: their recruiting dominance — how is that related to the FBI investigation unless it has been shown that someone was paid? I didn't read anything that makes that claim about Duke yet. About Carter — when was that lunch? After he signed with Duke? If so, i don't see a competitive advantage even if it broke an NCAA rule.

"Believe me" — when i saw Duke's name mentioned in the headlines, i was hoping for some "bombshell" that would illuminate fraud, but i haven't seen it.

Well he did break the rules... Sexton was suspended a game for receiving a dinner. Wendell has not. So at the very least he should be suspended 1 game. Same as Sexton.

So he did break the rules... The question is the extent to breaking the rules. If he received anything more through contact with an Agent then that could be the bombshell you are looking for. But FBI is holding evidence under wraps... Ayton and Miller's evidence was somehow released but I'm sure the FBI is holding a lot more info.
 
Bilas has created this wise old owl persona but the fact is he's as guilty as all the media who turned a blind eye. He's tough on officials and the NCAA but sucks up to every coach. He bullies low hanging fruit
He is on gameday now saying he knew about the underbelly of agent involvement. They are talking about Miller and are shocked only because of the head coach involvement. So it's not an issue if the head coach is insulated 2 layers from direct communication and transaction?
 
He is on gameday now saying he knew about the underbelly of agent involvement. They are talking about Miller and are shocked only because of the head coach involvement. So it's not an issue if the head coach is insulated 2 layers from direct communication and transaction?
He is saying at Duke they have an assistant do it, like Capel. Al Capone never got convicted of murder either.
 
I really hope the NCAA doesn't start paying players for this... It would ruin college basketball. You could wave goodbye to upsets. Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, and UNC will be the final 4 every year. Not only would they have more money to dish out but they would be able to hold their talented players longer cause they will be getting paid
 
He is saying at Duke they have an assistant do it, like Capel. Al Capone never got convicted of murder either.
I understand what they are saying, but cheating is cheating. A HC cannot turn his head and not get in trouble, especially if everyone already knows it's happening, according to Bilas
 
I understand what they are saying, but cheating is cheating. A HC cannot turn his head and not get in trouble, especially if everyone already knows it's happening, according to Bilas
I believe that holds true for the NCAA. But by creating a 2 tiered rigged system, they are now exposed to federal statutory law and lawsuits. Parties can show harm by this system and will have litigation rights.
 
Is cheating. And really big cheating is really unfair.

I started a separate thread bc I feel like something's missing.

Seems like most are focusing on the topic of amateurism and how it relates to the scandal.
I just saw Jay Bilas go on and on about the ncaa's hypocrisy. This is all fair and valid imo, and I tend to agree. However, where is all the talk about cheating? (And lying?) Why didn't he mention his alma mater and their recruiting dominance? For example, as least entertain the implications for K and current players. Doesn't espn love a good Duke story? If the Syracuse investigation turned up peanuts (i'm pretty sure he called it that), then what do you call this? Because it dwarfs what we got dinged for.

I'm hearing lots of talk excusing players for being taken advantage of and coaches being victims of this corrupt system where agents and shoe companies have too much influence. Fair in some instances, maybe. But, the coaches know who the agents are and the best players and their families are aware of agents from a young age. Are we all that naive to believe they don't know what's going on? Mistakes are mistakes, but come on...

And even in a fantasy world where these coaches and players had no idea their families were getting paid by agents, the fact remains that rules were broken and they gained an unfair advantage, a huuuge advantage in this case.

Incredible how many names on the list are recruits we missed on, or key players on teams in our new conference that we've had trouble keeping up with while on sanctions. Teams who we are in direct competition with.

And where were the UNCheat signs at the dome on Wednesday?

Now I'm angry so I'm going to the court and the first person who travels is catching hell. I hope JB spits on his hand before shaking K's on Saturday. Just kidding, just kidding...kind of
The only cheating I see that of the NCAA cheating kids out of a share of the billions of dollars generated by their free labor. The coaches are just playing the game that's been forced upon them.
 
The only cheating I see that of the NCAA cheating kids out of a share of the billions of dollars generated by their free labor. The coaches are just playing the game that's been forced upon them.
I completely agree with the sentiment of your first sentence. The system reeks of (is?) indentured servitude. Your last sentence, imo, too readily excuses the coaches who also benefit dearly from the free labor. I certainly understand that mistakes can be made and it is impossible to monitor everything in a program but the rules are there. All the parties involved know the rules and have a choice to follow them or break them, and if the latter, to which degree (maybe that's the pivot)
 
I really hope the NCAA doesn't start paying players for this... It would ruin college basketball. You could wave goodbye to upsets. Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, and UNC will be the final 4 every year. Not only would they have more money to dish out but they would be able to hold their talented players longer cause they will be getting paid

You cap or standardize the spending. It's not different than now. Instead of enforcing non-payment, you enforce no payments outside of the the standard.

Imagine Adam Silver or Gary Bettman going to the players association... hey guys we are concerned that there may be payments that may be made out of the cap to bring you to a team. So the best solution to avoid that is not pay you at all. Thanks fellas.

Many of the payments were largely payments to get by for the next year... kids were not that being greedy. They were just looking for many to help them out until they became pro. If you give them that money, take away the crookedness of it, you will see many more players going where they want to go.
 
You cap or standardize the spending. It's not different than now. Instead of enforcing non-payment, you enforce no payments outside of the the standard.

Imagine Adam Silver or Gary Bettman going to the players association... hey guys we are concerned that there may be payments that may be made out of the cap to bring you to a team. So the best solution to avoid that is not pay you at all. Thanks fellas.

Many of the payments were largely payments to get by for the next year... kids were not that being greedy. They were just looking for many to help them out until they became pro. If you give them that money, take away the crookedness of it, you will see many more players going where they want to go.

I just don't like it. These players are pretty much being given 20k-40k a year for playing basketball. These players are getting a free ride to college. That is equivalent to earning 40k a year and spending it on college. I hate when people say that the players are getting nothing... They are getting a 40k a year for free education housing, and food at college. If you want to pay the players then take away sports scholarships and have them pay for college with the money that they get paid with.
 
I really hope the NCAA doesn't start paying players for this... It would ruin college basketball. You could wave goodbye to upsets. Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, and UNC will be the final 4 every year. Not only would they have more money to dish out but they would be able to hold their talented players longer cause they will be getting paid

Moral issues aside, I don't understand why things would be really different. Most of the top schools already are paying players. Duke and UK get all the top recruits every year. How is that going to change?

The elite level recruits aren't going to stay in school a minute longer than they have to. The last lottery pick int he 2017 draft starts with a rookie salary of oer $2 million; how much do you really think they would be getting paid in college were it legal?
 
Moral issues aside, I don't understand why things would be really different. Most of the top schools already are paying players. Duke and UK get all the top recruits every year. How is that going to change?

The elite level recruits aren't going to stay in school a minute longer than they have to. The last lottery pick int he 2017 draft starts with a rookie salary of oer $2 million; how much do you really think they would be getting paid in college were it legal?
If say, Tulane ( Mike Dunleavy is doing some good work there) wants to buy a couple of top players, is that okay?
 
Maybe the NCAA should make an incentive rule where they could make money if players stay until senior year.
 
I understand what they are saying, but cheating is cheating. A HC cannot turn his head and not get in trouble, especially if everyone already knows it's happening, according to Bilas
JB rule
 
If say, Tulane ( Mike Dunleavy is doing some good work there) wants to buy a couple of top players, is that okay?

I was responding to the point that the top schools would get all the best recruits (already happens) and keeps them longer (makes no sense). Not anything else
 
I was responding to the point that the top schools would get all the best recruits (already happens) and keeps them longer (makes no sense). Not anything else
I was just saying that it would be different if the cartel was broken and anybody could pay for players.
 
Well now we know why all these top 20 east coast McD AAs are lining up to go to Arizona. It wasn't just the weather. Funny how these guys aren't lining up quite the same way to go to Miami.
 

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