Class of 2020 Position Analysis | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2020 Position Analysis

Dino-saur

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Let me preface this post by saying that I agree 3 star talent recruited to the right system can compete with the blue chip recruits. I believe Dino Babers is a rockstar and I’m pumped for this upcoming season.

With that said, I feel like from a positional view we are striking out badly with this class. We are taking an excess of players at positions we don’t need and avoiding or missing on positions and positional attributes (tall WRs for example) that we do need.

RB seems to be a strength of this team. Sure, Moe Neal will graduate, but with Jarveon Howard waiting in the wings and Abdul Adams with a year of eligibility after this year as well as Jawhar Jordan who I expect to burst onto the scene and other backs such as Markenzy Pierre who is serviceable and Garrison Johnson it just doesn’t seem like a position of need. I like the Baltimore duo, but I really like Tucker. I know he could play slot and Wax could play RB, but I would have rather us either taken 0-1 of those 2 and held out hope for a Jalen Berger. Even if you tell me that Wax is being recruited as an RB and Tucker as a slot I would counter and say we are recruiting too many big, plodding type backs. Taking 2 and maybe 3 in this class seems like a poor allocation of scholarships.

Our deepest position is probably Safety. We have a dynamic two deep (preseason) that doesn’t include Cam Jonas or Neil Nunn two young Florida players that could have been at FSU and Miami respectively. Those players go along with a young core of Cisco, Coley, Trill, as well as Clark and Stritzinger who both have 2 more years of eligibility. Of our commitments I might be most excited about Labrosse and Charles Bell of any of them and Hanna is not bad either but it’s just head scratching that we took 3+ Safeties in this class considering our depth and youth at the position. In my head I like to believe Charles Bell will play nickel, Labrosse is being recruited as a LB, and Hanna is the only true S, but I’m reaching to jump to this conclusion.

Once again it seems we have struck out on our big QB targets and may not even take one or will take another David Summers type. This season is going to be on DeVito and his ability to stay healthy. I was hoping a stud QB would be a priority to really lock down the most important position. I love this upcoming team but one player I’m not fully sold on just yet is Welch.

I was also hoping a big WR would be a priority. It seems we will not have a problem finding slot WRs for this offense, but finding WRs that can play on the outside with above average height (6-2, 6-3, 6-4+) seems like a position we should be addressing this class too. Meiga, Poitier, and Gowdy all fit that description. With Gowdy off the board let’s see if we can address this need as it seems we are definitely trying. Justin Barron could also be used in this role and Mahar was an excellent get at TE.

Getting elephants has always seemed to be a priority of Babers. Except... not this class We have one tall, slender OT and one either interior offensive or defensive linemen committed. This class needs less RBs/Safeties and more elephants. I’m actually alone in thinking that our DT depth for this season is fine, but even I would not argue our DT depth is good past this season. I get that it’s hard to recruit good, in-shape DTs and I like that we have morphed some DEs into muscular DTs (see Ruff and Black) but hopefully we can continue to fill out the class with elephants. It’s always nice to say in theory that we could grab a JUCO/Grad Transfer DT or RG for next season, but that’s unlikely at best.

Love the kicker we got. Always nice to get a kid ranked near the top at his position and love have a dominant special teams unit.
 

721Comstock

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You take who you can get. Period.

We're not a selector school, and one 10-win season doesn't erase the nearly 2 decades of futility that preceeded it.

This staff is generally targeting fast, taller athletes with a lot of upside.
You clearly don't have any faith in what they're doing, in spite of the evidence that it's working.

There's still half the class to fill out.
Last year, a lot of our 'best' signings were towards the end of the cycle.
I would not be surprised if that were the case again this year.

Also "David Summers type" - what does that even mean??
He's a guy who committed early to the Twerps, then jumped when the coaching change occurred.

We pulled Chance Amie as a signing day flip the year prior - it's not Dino's fault he couldn't take care of his business and had to transfer out. Kid had talent on the field.

We offer a LOT more guys than we used to - which means, by definition - that we will seem to "miss out" on a LOT more guys than we used to.
Relax.
 

PAcuse

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People are really letting a few misses cloud the offer great recruiting this staff has done since they have been here.
Lot's of obstacles to over come, not winning for a decade really hurts, and believe it or not snow is a big concern for some of these kids.
Losing a big 4 star WR because he wants to stay close to his family is going to happen and no one should be blaming the staff for that.
You are really underselling David Summers and I would suggest you go look at his film.
 

Dino-saur

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Am I being too harsh or do you guys share similar concerns about this class?

I also think we could have recruited better in this class at LB. Thompson is a solid 3 star, Barron & Labrosse also may fit here if needed, but I was thinking we could once again pull a 4 star caliber player. We plan on using them early on special teams, will once again be losing 2 seniors that will either start or play a lot, and Mikel Jones or one of the other 2 studs from last class should be proof we will play LBs early, however this was less of a blunt need as last class was so good at the position and more of a wishlist item for the class.
 

RF2044

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Also "David Summers type" - what does that even mean??
He's a guy who committed early to the Twerps, then jumped when the coaching change occurred.
You are really underselling David Summers and I would suggest you go look at his film.

I think there's a large scale misconception from a segment of the fanbase that Summers was a "settle" because he committed so late in the cycle.
 

PAcuse

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Am I being too harsh or do you guys share similar concerns about this class?

I also think we could have recruited better in this class at LB. Thompson is a solid 3 star, Barron & Labrosse also may fit here if needed, but I was thinking we could once again pull a 4 star caliber player. We plan on using them early on special teams, will once again be losing 2 seniors that will either start or play a lot, and Mikel Jones or one of the other 2 studs from last class should be proof we will play LBs early, however this was less of a blunt need as last class was so good at the position and more of a wishlist item for the class.
I have some concerns about the class, but it's barely August, we have lot of time left. Look to last years class on how awesome this staff can close. Alot can happen before signing day comes and goes.
Sure we missed a few top targets but if burst out of the gate 3-0 and dare I say take care of Clemson you will see some bigger movement on the recruiting front.
One big thing that is not brought up enough, this staff kills it with camp recruits. I would rather have these camp recruits then some random three stars we used to get.
 

RF2044

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Am I being too harsh or do you guys share similar concerns about this class?

I also think we could have recruited better in this class at LB. Thompson is a solid 3 star, Barron & Labrosse also may fit here if needed, but I was thinking we could once again pull a 4 star caliber player. We plan on using them early on special teams, will once again be losing 2 seniors that will either start or play a lot, and Mikel Jones or one of the other 2 studs from last class should be proof we will play LBs early, however this was less of a blunt need as last class was so good at the position and more of a wishlist item for the class.

I think your assessment is wrong about LB. The staff went heavy at LB last year, and landed three studs. Thompson is more than just a "solid 3 star" -- the staff LOVED him at the camp. They view him as a stud MLB, who will dovetail with the players brought in in the preceding class. Wax might also factor at LB.
 

Dino-saur

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I agree that the staff has done a great job with what they have and again that 3 stars in the right system can rival elite talent that’s either not willing to work or not in the right system. I’ve seen the proof. I’ve seen Dino & Co. go to work. I’ve seen him pull of Va Tech, Clemson, Florida State, West Virginia wins, and I’ve been impressed by it all. So impressed that maybe I’m raising my standards and expectations. Dino has turned it around with players that weren’t Taylor made for his schemes and now was supposed to be the time he got players for his scheme. I like most of our recruits I just don’t feel that we need to load up at RB and S. That is not an attack on Dino, the program, my belief in the program, etc. I’m just trying to have a civil debate about how our class is shaking out the way a lot of football schools debate their classes because we are once again becoming a football school.
 

Dino-saur

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I think there's a large scale misconception from a segment of the fanbase that Summers was a "settle" because he committed so late in the cycle.
He was a settle. The new staff at Maryland did not recruit him. He ultimately picked us over Buffalo and Fordham. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a very good player. It just means I’m being realistic that he wasn’t our guy and we weren’t his dream school. I just would love to get a DeVito, Amie, etc. in this class that is our guy if that makes sense.
 

RF2044

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I agree that the staff has done a great job with what they have and again that 3 stars in the right system can rival elite talent that’s either not willing to work or not in the right system. I’ve seen the proof. I’ve seen Dino & Co. go to work. I’ve seen him pull of Va Tech, Clemson, Florida State, West Virginia wins, and I’ve been impressed by it all. So impressed that maybe I’m raising my standards and expectations. Dino has turned it around with players that weren’t Taylor made for his schemes and now was supposed to be the time he got players for his scheme. I like most of our recruits I just don’t feel that we need to load up at RB and S. That is not an attack on Dino, the program, my belief in the program, etc. I’m just trying to have a civil debate about how our class is shaking out the way a lot of football schools debate their classes because we are once again becoming a football school.

I actually commend you for the thoughtful OP, even though I disagree with some of your conclusions.

I think that secondary is important as hell in high major college football, and that the coaching staff is loading up with athletes in the secondary. Some of those guys in this class project at corner, IMO.

Need to load up now on both sides of the ball. I expect they will -- and that DT / OL along with QB will be a major focus of emphasis as the coaches fill out the remaining 10 or so open slots over the course of the next couple of months.
 

RF2044

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He was a settle. The new staff at Maryland did not recruit him. He ultimately picked us over Buffalo and Fordham. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a very good player. It just means I’m being realistic that he wasn’t our guy and we weren’t his dream school. I just would love to get a DeVito, Amie, etc. in this class that is our guy if that makes sense.

He wasn't remotely a settle. Maryland's new coaching staff [if you can call it that] wants to implement a different style of offense, and a pro-style passing QB didn't fit that style. That isn't an indictment on Summers skill set -- he was a stud who reevaluated his options. We weren't competing with Fordham / Buffalo for him -- that is nonsense.
 

FloridaFan

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I agree that the staff has done a great job with what they have and again that 3 stars in the right system can rival elite talent that’s either not willing to work or not in the right system. I’ve seen the proof. I’ve seen Dino & Co. go to work. I’ve seen him pull of Va Tech, Clemson, Florida State, West Virginia wins, and I’ve been impressed by it all. So impressed that maybe I’m raising my standards and expectations. Dino has turned it around with players that weren’t Taylor made for his schemes and now was supposed to be the time he got players for his scheme. I like most of our recruits I just don’t feel that we need to load up at RB and S. That is not an attack on Dino, the program, my belief in the program, etc. I’m just trying to have a civil debate about how our class is shaking out the way a lot of football schools debate their classes because we are once again becoming a football school.
You know how the big schools stay winning? They load up talent at positions they have talent as well as where they need it. Georgia doesnt stop recruiting RB's even though they have 3-4 players that were 4-5 stars. Thats the meaning of depth and dino is building it. We will get people we like for the spots of OL and what not and keep stockpiling weapons elsewhere.
 

P Vasiloff

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Much of the fan base including myself may have varying degrees of disappointment by young Mr. Gowdy verbally selecting Georgia Tech. One thing I am not disappointed in and in fact, quite excited about is Coach Dino Babers and his Staff's ability to identify talent and then coach that talent to its maximum potential. This takes time folks. Be patient and keep the faith and I guarantee you Coach Babers and his players will deliver and Syracuse University Football will be back at or near the top of the college football world where it belongs. Good luck to the Staff as they continue to fill out the 2020 Class. We as a fan base are all rooting for you. It would be nice if you could bring back Dave Boller to help. Go Orange!!!!!!
 

ImperialOrange

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I think it's important to remember our coaches recruiting board doesn't mirror the recruiting sites. Some of these guys very clearly won't be playing the position at Syracuse that they are currently listed at so it's tough to truly gauge numbers.

Mahar, for example, refers to himself as a WR and have to imagine he was recruited as a "big, tall wr" vs a blocking te that the position was 20 years ago. Additionally Labrosse's highlights show him playing field corner so not sure why he is listed at safety and why some think he will end up in the lb group. He doesn't look like he can add much more good weight.

End game presume the staff are taking BPA for our systems and using a whole host of metrics, that would blow many minds, to establish who they are and how they've been graded.
 

shu 49

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My thing is if we didn’t make our kids much better than the 3* they were when we recruited them I would be upset about our lack of star recruiting. Like I said in previous thread it’s a lot better when we see our kids improve drastically each year and that’s from great coaching. Another good year and they will see we can get the great kids and ready them for nfl.
 

CuseLegacy

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Let me preface this post by saying that I agree 3 star talent recruited to the right system can compete with the blue chip recruits. I believe Dino Babers is a rockstar and I’m pumped for this upcoming season.

With that said, I feel like from a positional view we are striking out badly with this class. We are taking an excess of players at positions we don’t need and avoiding or missing on positions and positional attributes (tall WRs for example) that we do need.

RB seems to be a strength of this team. Sure, Moe Neal will graduate, but with Jarveon Howard waiting in the wings and Abdul Adams with a year of eligibility after this year as well as Jawhar Jordan who I expect to burst onto the scene and other backs such as Markenzy Pierre who is serviceable and Garrison Johnson it just doesn’t seem like a position of need. I like the Baltimore duo, but I really like Tucker. I know he could play slot and Wax could play RB, but I would have rather us either taken 0-1 of those 2 and held out hope for a Jalen Berger. Even if you tell me that Wax is being recruited as an RB and Tucker as a slot I would counter and say we are recruiting too many big, plodding type backs. Taking 2 and maybe 3 in this class seems like a poor allocation of scholarships.

Our deepest position is probably Safety. We have a dynamic two deep (preseason) that doesn’t include Cam Jonas or Neil Nunn two young Florida players that could have been at FSU and Miami respectively. Those players go along with a young core of Cisco, Coley, Trill, as well as Clark and Stritzinger who both have 2 more years of eligibility. Of our commitments I might be most excited about Labrosse and Charles Bell of any of them and Hanna is not bad either but it’s just head scratching that we took 3+ Safeties in this class considering our depth and youth at the position. In my head I like to believe Charles Bell will play nickel, Labrosse is being recruited as a LB, and Hanna is the only true S, but I’m reaching to jump to this conclusion.

Once again it seems we have struck out on our big QB targets and may not even take one or will take another David Summers type. This season is going to be on DeVito and his ability to stay healthy. I was hoping a stud QB would be a priority to really lock down the most important position. I love this upcoming team but one player I’m not fully sold on just yet is Welch.

I was also hoping a big WR would be a priority. It seems we will not have a problem finding slot WRs for this offense, but finding WRs that can play on the outside with above average height (6-2, 6-3, 6-4+) seems like a position we should be addressing this class too. Meiga, Poitier, and Gowdy all fit that description. With Gowdy off the board let’s see if we can address this need as it seems we are definitely trying. Justin Barron could also be used in this role and Mahar was an excellent get at TE.

Getting elephants has always seemed to be a priority of Babers. Except... not this class We have one tall, slender OT and one either interior offensive or defensive linemen committed. This class needs less RBs/Safeties and more elephants. I’m actually alone in thinking that our DT depth for this season is fine, but even I would not argue our DT depth is good past this season. I get that it’s hard to recruit good, in-shape DTs and I like that we have morphed some DEs into muscular DTs (see Ruff and Black) but hopefully we can continue to fill out the class with elephants. It’s always nice to say in theory that we could grab a JUCO/Grad Transfer DT or RG for next season, but that’s unlikely at best.

Love the kicker we got. Always nice to get a kid ranked near the top at his position and love have a dominant special teams unit.

It's July. I swear that every year y'all go through this hang wringing exercise at this point in the recruiting cycle.
 

Dino-saur

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Labrosse at CB would be awesome too.

This thread is not a response to losing out Gowdy only. The UGa counter point is the a really good analogy IMO.

I did not create this thread to attack specific recruits and defend other recruits or to divisively wedge us apart as a fan base. I will never be convinced that Summers for example was our plan A at QB that class nor that we faced any difficult competition to get him here, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN HE CAN’T BE GOOD!

This post was made to look macro level at team needs and to assess whether we have generally filled our needs. I agree re-stocking and adding depth to strong positional groups has benefits and I also do not doubt the staffs ability to scout talent. I also believe the recruiting boards are different from coach specific boards and that elite blue chip talent at every position is not realistic or reasonable.

With all of that now said, can we talk constructively about the positional fitting of this class.
 

memcorsu

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August...BIG SEASON. . . . . . .Signing Day=fans going :p

I know we are all shell shocked from the past. We are a few plays away from having three winning seasons and two seasons in a row that we beat the champs. We ran out of gas in many of those games as we had no depth and fizzled like a sparkler in Memphis on an August hot and humid day.

We are still using past coaches players although a few (thank you to all the players that stayed). We are only in season 3 of hcdb SC. We have upgrades coming in facilities. We have an electrifying staff. We still have not seen fast ( although we will probably see it this year ). We are very deep almost everywhere. Not much physical drop of from 1’s and 3 or 4 just experience. You sre seeing more and more “ and/or “ on the depth charts.

I will say this we are in a good place, but we will see it put in 5th gear and it will happen quick and suddenly. Records are going to seem silly when it happens. I would not worry one bit about any class. Dino Inc. will get what they need. They already are. Gotta just enjoy the ride.

Said it before, get your “swag” now because the price will go up when the kids sre wearing it next year.
 

PAcuse

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Labrosse at CB would be awesome too.

This thread is not a response to losing out Gowdy only. The UGa counter point is the a really good analogy IMO.

I did not create this thread to attack specific recruits and defend other recruits or to divisively wedge us apart as a fan base. I will never be convinced that Summers for example was our plan A at QB that class nor that we faced any difficult competition to get him here, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN HE CAN’T BE GOOD!

This post was made to look macro level at team needs and to assess whether we have generally filled our needs. I agree re-stocking and adding depth to strong positional groups has benefits and I also do not doubt the staffs ability to scout talent. I also believe the recruiting boards are different from coach specific boards and that elite blue chip talent at every position is not realistic or reasonable.

With all of that now said, can we talk constructively about the positional fitting of this class.
Save yourself some headaches and don't compare out recruiting to UGA or any of the big boys
UGA spends almost 4 million on recruiting a year and are a top destination school, we are not even remotely close to either of those.
I think Dino and staff do try to build talent at the position like the big schools but it's a lot harder at a school like Syracuse for now.
They are stock piling great depth on the defense side and with offense the nice thing is give Dino two good RBs, a QB that knows the system and it's running fast easy peasy.
 

OrangeXtreme

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I did not create this thread to attack specific recruits and defend other recruits or to divisively wedge us apart as a fan base. I will never be convinced that Summers for example was our plan A at QB that class nor that we faced any difficult competition to get him here, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN HE CAN’T BE GOOD!

If Summers is good enough for Dino, he should be good enough for the rest of us.
 

Cuse12

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I respect the OP, there was no over dramatic statements made. I see how you can think that way. But, we also have to remember that we now have more depth then ever, and these kids should practically all be red shirting and developing for a whole year before they even sniff the turf. I think our coaches know we have to recruit players who have the foundation to grow into elite ACC level players. Now that we have depth we can give these young men time to do so. I believe we are recruiting kids with high upside and therefore their ratings are not as high because they may not have the reps or exposure in comparison to a top 300 player. I also agree that the class needs to add some elephants and that clearly is going to be a priority the rest of the way.

And for you to say we have struck out on some priority targets is true. But, the difference is that we are actually in the hunt for these guys now. As long as we keep winning on the field, those recruiting battles will be won at a higher percentage then now.

For now I think we have to stay patient and trust the staff. They clearly have an eye for under the radar talent and proven it. If we keep winning 8-10 games a year with these classes then the proof is in the pudding.
 

Janner

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I actually think we've done pretty well so far given where we are at in the year, July, and as a program. I know its been stated a number of times before but last year was the first year this program has been relevant in decades and we lost our starting QB so I can see why some recruits who are not overly familiar with our program and what we have returning might think we had a one-off season last year. This program is not at the point where it should be pulling in 4-5* recruits, yet. The evidence is not there, yet. But if we win some games this year, pack the dome and play some good teams tough you could see us pull a few rabbits out of a hat, much like last year. Sustained success will go a long long way for this program. I know that sounds very obvious but with the way kids gravitate and view HCDB and the rest of the staff, I would put my money on these recruits choosing Syracuse over any of our peer programs any day of the week

With regards to the recruiting class so far, I believe almost every commitment we have is from camp kids (correct me if I am wrong). Our staff knows how to evaluate, and from first hand knowledgeable reports on this board, does a very good job with how they run these camps. The staff took the kids early that they didn't want to let get away and given their track record over the last few years with this formula I will defer to their expertise and judgement. We still have about 1/2 of the class to go, and if we can win some games and get the dome going like the late 80s and 90s then you could see some very nice momentum to close out the class. Rebuilding a program takes time and we have to realize we are still in that process.
 

IthacaBarrel

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Rather win the battle on the field than the social media recruiting battle. Again, we have missed on a few kids this summer and it happens. The recruiting classes are the recruiting classes. How many 4 and 5 star kids has Syracuse ever gotten and one really good season in basically twenty years and people expect the flood gates to open.

I don't think we will find a better recruiter for our program that Dino and I truly believe that. Syracuse was, is and will always be a developmental program and it's clear that they have the right staff for this. I just think people have expected too much after one really good year. I know what Dino said, but What is he suppose to say.

Lets follow up last year with another good season and continue to solidify things. I am sure the competition are constantly in driving the message home to kids that Dino will leave after this year with another good season. I would be doing the same if I was recruiting for another school

It's a freaking cesspool out there and always has been but the hand wringing and negativity is ridiculous, IMO. To each their own I guess but Syracuse has hit an absolute home run with Dino and Co. and quite honestly I don't think we can do any better. There is a definite rank and file when it comes to recruiting regardless of who your staff is
 

FloridaFan

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Save yourself some headaches and don't compare out recruiting to UGA or any of the big boys
UGA spends almost 4 million on recruiting a year and are a top destination school, we are not even remotely close to either of those.
I think Dino and staff do try to build talent at the position like the big schools but it's a lot harder at a school like Syracuse for now.
They are stock piling great depth on the defense side and with offense the nice thing is give Dino two good RBs, a QB that knows the system and it's running fast easy peasy.
I was comparing what we did with RB's and safeties this class as what big teams like geogia do. We wont be as good as them in terms of "class rank" but we can do the same tactics of stockpiling weapons in areas that arent positions of dire need.
 

RF2044

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I will never be convinced that Summers for example was our plan A at QB that class nor that we faced any difficult competition to get him here, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN HE CAN’T BE GOOD!


Of course he wasn't our plan A -- because he committed to MARYLAND early, in May 2018, prior to his senior year of high school. He was off of everybody's board after that.

Your assessment of the caliber of recruit he was is totally out of whack.
 

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