College football success is hard to sustain - even with many recruiting advantages

[Crusty]

Over the years much has been posted in this forum about the recruiting advantages of other programs particularly with respect to school size, location (warm weather), facilities, tradition, fan base, boosters, budget, home state high school football quality and a few other factors.

The truth is that even with every advantage very few programs can produce top 25 teams year in and year out. Seniors graduate and most schools struggle with depth and eligibility issues. Assistant coaches get hired away and the FNG always has a new system for everyone to learn. A few players can make a world of difference. IMO if you have a good battle tested coach that can recruit, stick with him. Coaches are generally signed to 5-year contracts, which means that in the last contract year he has a team of seniors he recruited for the first time. So, for me 7 years is about the correct time frame in which to judge unless there are other extenuating factors.

Among the schools that have been frequently acknowledged as having recruiting advantages over us include:

1. Texas 2019 (25th); unranked 7 of last 10 years
2. Southern Cal 2017 (12th); unranked 5 of last 10 years
3. Florida State 2016 (8th); unranked last 3 years
4. TCU 2017 (9th) unranked 5 of last 10 years
5. Virginia Tech 2017 (24th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
6. Texas A&M 2018 (16th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
7. Tennessee 2016 (2nd) unranked 8 of last 10 years
8. Notre Dame 2019 (5th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
9. Arkansas 2011 (5th) unranked 9 of last 10 years
10. Baylor 2019 (13th ) unranked 5 of last 10 years
11. Wisconsin 2019 (11th) ranked 8 of last 10 years
12. Wake Forest 2006 (18th) unranked 10 of last 10 years
13. Washington 2018 (13th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
14. Pitt 2009 (15th) unranked 10 of last 10 years
15. Oregon 2019 (5th) unranked 3 of last 10 years
16. North Carolina 2016 (15th) unranked nine of last 10 years
17. NC State 2017 (23rd) unranked 8 of last 10 years
18. Duke 2013 (23rd) unranked 9 of last 10 years
19. UCLA 2014 (10th) unranked 8 of last 10 years

Rankings end-of-year

Many of the schools above have everything and yet they still struggle or are cyclical at best.

SU under Dick MacPherson was in the AP top 25 at year-end only twice in his 10 years as HC (only two seasons with over 10 wins.) Paul Pasqualoni managed 8 top 25 rankings and 3 10-win seasons in his 14 years as HC and three more with 9-wins.

Dino has managed one top 25 ranking and one 10-win season in his first 5 years.

Bottom line is that we have a very good head coach who has already had some success and has improved recruiting, especially in the last two classes. I for one believe we are about to go on a fairly good run for the next few years.

LGO!

 

[Hokie Mark]

Good points! Look, if Coach Babers can produce a top 25 team in Syracuse once every 5 years - it won't be great, but it wouldn't be all that bad, either. It would put the program on par with Tennessee, Wisconsin(!), NC State and UCLA. Eventually fans would want more - but that should buy him a decade of job security, which is the best you can hope for in his line of work...

BTW, I realize MacPherson built it and Pasqualoni just maintained it, but Coach P probably deserves more credit than he normally gets for driving the bus as long as he did without a wreck.

 

[Orijinal]

This should be sobering news for any school looking to fire a coach after a couple subpar seasons. What could any school realistically expect? There are only 2 schools that would be the exception. Clemson and Alabama.

I think in Syracuse's case, a coach should always be given the first 5 years to produce a winning season (which Babers has done), and thereafter be bowl eligible 2 of every 3 years, and top 25 at least once every 4 years.

So years 6-9
2 bowl seasons
1 top 25 finish

 

[upperdeck]

sometimes its also about how the schedule plays out. But over time can you be competive

 

[nzm136]

Over the years much has been posted in this forum about the recruiting advantages of other programs particularly with respect to school size, location (warm weather), facilities, tradition, fan base, boosters, budget, home state high school football quality and a few other factors.

The truth is that even with every advantage very few programs can produce top 25 teams year in and year out. Seniors graduate and most schools struggle with depth and eligibility issues. Assistant coaches get hired away and the FNG always has a new system for everyone to learn. A few players can make a world of difference. IMO if you have a good battle tested coach that can recruit, stick with him. Coaches are generally signed to 5-year contracts, which means that in the last contract year he has a team of seniors he recruited for the first time. So, for me 7 years is about the correct time frame in which to judge unless there are other extenuating factors.

Among the schools that have been frequently acknowledged as having recruiting advantages over us include:

1. Texas 2019 (25th); unranked 7 of last 10 years
2. Southern Cal 2017 (12th); unranked 5 of last 10 years
3. Florida State 2016 (8th); unranked last 3 years
4. TCU 2017 (9th) unranked 5 of last 10 years
5. Virginia Tech 2017 (24th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
6. Texas A&M 2018 (16th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
7. Tennessee 2016 (2nd) unranked 8 of last 10 years
8. Notre Dame 2019 (5th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
9. Arkansas 2011 (5th) unranked 9 of last 10 years
10. Baylor 2019 (13th ) unranked 5 of last 10 years
11. Wisconsin 2019 (11th) 8 of last 10 years
12. Wake Forest 2006 (18th) unranked 10 of last 10 years
13. Washington 2018 (13th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
14. Pitt 2009 (15th) unranked 10 of last 10 years
15. Oregon 2019 (5th) unranked 3 of last 10 years
16. North Carolina 2016 (15th) unranked nine of last 10 years
17. NC State 2017 (23rd) unranked 8 of last 10 years
18. Duke 2013 (23rd) unranked 9 of last 10 years
19. UCLA 2014 (10th) unranked 8 of last 10 years

Rankings end-of-year

Many of the schools above have everything and yet they still struggle or are cyclical at best.

SU under Dick MacPherson was in the AP top 25 at year-end only twice in his 10 years as HC (only two seasons with over 10 wins.) Paul Pasqualoni managed 8 top 25 rankings and 3 10-win seasons in his 14 years as HC and three more with 9-wins.

Dino has managed one top 25 ranking and one 10-win season in his first 5 years.

Bottom line is that we have a very good head coach who has already had some success and has improved recruiting, especially in the last two classes. I for one believe we are about to go on a fairly good run for the next few years.

LGO!

Man, I hope so.

EDIT: Also, I would have lost a lot of money on the wrong side of the bet as to whether or not Sconny has finished in ranked 8 of the last 10 years.

 

[SWC75]

I love college football more than any level of any sport but what I don't like about it, (because we aren't among the elite), is that so much of it is about schools having huge advantages over others, in location, type of school, budget, facilities, fan support, (especially schools that represent the whole state) and recent success, (which is all recruits are likely to know about). We can't be Clemson. We can't be Penn State. It contrasts with college basketball which, because of smaller teams, offers the potential for excellence to many more schools, (including us).

The saving graces are:
- That those advantages are advantages in recruiting players who are in their mid-teens when they are being recruited. Nobody knows if they've peaked in their development, physically, emotionally or in terms of their sport. You can't be sure about character or work ethic. A player may have problems with discipline or academics. other players may blossom later: Johnny Manziel was a 2 star recruit and Tom Brady was a 6th round draft choice. Mack Brown got blown out by BYU when he was at Texas in a game where He had forty four 4 or 5 star players to nine for the Cougars and that cost him his job there.
- It's a sport that came be dominated from certain positions. A great quarterback can elevate you: so can a great defensive player. The 2010 Auburn team with Cam Newton and Nick Fairley has always intrigued me. I've always thought they were our 1998 team if Dwight Freeney was a healthy senior, (2001), instead of an injured freshman. With McNabb on one side of the ball and Freeney on the other side, we could have won it all that year. By the same token, if a "blue blood" program misfires at quarterback and has a great middle line backer jump to the pros, they can be vulnerable.

 

[Crusty]

Good points! Look, if Coach Babers can produce a top 25 team in Syracuse once every 5 years - it won't be great, but it wouldn't be all that bad, either. It would put the program on par with Tennessee, Wisconsin(!), NC State and UCLA. Eventually fans would want more - but that should buy him a decade of job security, which is the best you can hope for in his line of work...

BTW, I realize MacPherson built it and Pasqualoni just maintained it, but Coach P probably deserves more credit than he normally gets for driving the bus as long as he did without a wreck.

PP was a very good coach. He has the highest win pct of ANY SU HC including Ben.

I don't think he gets the credit he deserves.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

Over the years much has been posted in this forum about the recruiting advantages of other programs particularly with respect to school size, location (warm weather), facilities, tradition, fan base, boosters, budget, home state high school football quality and a few other factors.

The truth is that even with every advantage very few programs can produce top 25 teams year in and year out. Seniors graduate and most schools struggle with depth and eligibility issues. Assistant coaches get hired away and the FNG always has a new system for everyone to learn. A few players can make a world of difference. IMO if you have a good battle tested coach that can recruit, stick with him. Coaches are generally signed to 5-year contracts, which means that in the last contract year he has a team of seniors he recruited for the first time. So, for me 7 years is about the correct time frame in which to judge unless there are other extenuating factors.

Among the schools that have been frequently acknowledged as having recruiting advantages over us include:

1. Texas 2019 (25th); unranked 7 of last 10 years
2. Southern Cal 2017 (12th); unranked 5 of last 10 years
3. Florida State 2016 (8th); unranked last 3 years
4. TCU 2017 (9th) unranked 5 of last 10 years
5. Virginia Tech 2017 (24th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
6. Texas A&M 2018 (16th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
7. Tennessee 2016 (2nd) unranked 8 of last 10 years
8. Notre Dame 2019 (5th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
9. Arkansas 2011 (5th) unranked 9 of last 10 years
10. Baylor 2019 (13th ) unranked 5 of last 10 years
11. Wisconsin 2019 (11th) ranked 8 of last 10 years
12. Wake Forest 2006 (18th) unranked 10 of last 10 years
13. Washington 2018 (13th) unranked 6 of last 10 years
14. Pitt 2009 (15th) unranked 10 of last 10 years
15. Oregon 2019 (5th) unranked 3 of last 10 years
16. North Carolina 2016 (15th) unranked nine of last 10 years
17. NC State 2017 (23rd) unranked 8 of last 10 years
18. Duke 2013 (23rd) unranked 9 of last 10 years
19. UCLA 2014 (10th) unranked 8 of last 10 years

Rankings end-of-year

Many of the schools above have everything and yet they still struggle or are cyclical at best.

SU under Dick MacPherson was in the AP top 25 at year-end only twice in his 10 years as HC (only two seasons with over 10 wins.) Paul Pasqualoni managed 8 top 25 rankings and 3 10-win seasons in his 14 years as HC and three more with 9-wins.

Dino has managed one top 25 ranking and one 10-win season in his first 5 years.

Bottom line is that we have a very good head coach who has already had some success and has improved recruiting, especially in the last two classes. I for one believe we are about to go on a fairly good run for the next few years.

LGO!

All great points. What I am wondering is how many teams have winning records for years. Never mind being ranked. Typically over a .500 record with occasional ten win seasons. My buddy went to Wisconsin and I have real jealousy for his team. That is where I wish we were as a program. Typically good occasionally great? Where have I heard that before?

 

[Crusty]

I find it interesting that the program widely recognized as having the best lineman year after year also has been the most consistent of the programs listed in the OP. Wisconsin!