Consistent Effort

[HRE Otto IV]

I think that is what I want to see most from this team. It wasn't there at all with Shafer, unless you count being consistently bad. In the last 3 years we have fallen behind by three scores sixteen times!!! That is nearly 50% of the games. It would be nice to see SU be competitive every game and not just a handful.

 

[CuseDude]

Interesting that never once did I feel that Shafer's teams did not give effort. In fact most times I was surprised and proud of the effort that was given even facing your three scores down data point. Our team never rolled over and played hard each and every time to the final whistle.

 

[sufandu]

I think that is what I want to see most from this team. It wasn't there at all with Shafer, unless you count being consistently bad. In the last 3 years we have fallen behind by three scores sixteen times!!! That is nearly 50% of the games. It would be nice to see SU be competitive every game and not just a handful.

Question game planning, in game adjustments, or assistant coaching hires, that's all warrented. But effort was never a problem with a Shafer coached team. His players loved him and would've run through a wall for him. You're way off base here.

 

[OrangeDW]

Question game planning, in game adjustments, or assistant coaching hires, that's all warrented. But effort was never a problem with a Shafer coached team. His players loved him and would've run through a wall for him. You're way off base here.

I would agree that he's off the mark in that effort on game day wasn't the problem...but there was a problem in being consistently competitive. Even in that first bowl season, we got absolutely pounded a few times. Big difference from the Marrone era where we were usually in most of the games, and even when we were greatly overmatched we usually kept the score somewhat respectable and didn't embarrass ourselves.

With Babers offense and our returning talent at the skill positions, I think we'll at least have a good enough offense to be competitive.

 

[TheCusian]

I would agree that he's off the mark in that effort on game day wasn't the problem...but there was a problem in being consistently competitive. Even in that first bowl season, we got absolutely pounded a few times. Big difference from the Marrone era where we were usually in most of the games, and even when we were greatly overmatched we usually kept the score somewhat respectable and didn't embarrass ourselves. With Babers offense and our returning talent at the skill positions, I think we'll at least have a good enough offense to be competitive.

Game planning and scheme were the issues, not effort. IMO

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Lol. You all are missing the point. We were not competitive. You are arguing semantics. We need to be in games from start to finish, week in and week out. That did not happen the last 3 years. THAT IS A FACT. Which was my point. I don't give a F what the reason or correct wording should be. What I do care about is that watching SU football will no longer be torture.

 

[jgeorge322]

Interesting that never once did I feel that Shafer's teams did not give effort. In fact most times I was surprised and proud of the effort that was given even facing your three scores down data point. Our team never rolled over and played hard each and every time to the final whistle.

Kids always played hard for hcss. No doubt.

 

[CanadianSU]

I think the key word here is preparation.

Georgia tech debacle comes to mind.

 

[kcsu]

If he had named lester OC from day one he would still be our head coach

 

[supp]

Lol. You all are missing the point. We were not competitive. You are arguing semantics. We need to be in games from start to finish, week in and week out. That did not happen the last 3 years. THAT IS A FACT. Which was my point. I don't give a F what the reason or correct wording should be. What I do care about is that watching SU football will no longer be torture.

I'm not hoping it happens but I am preparing myself for being on the wrong side of some blowouts this year. I don't think effort will be a problem but the offensive scheme's emphasis on tempo and youth/depth problems on defense may contribute to a couple of lopsided games not in our favor.

 

[kuethstheman]

Words mean things.

Yes, it would be nice to be in every game.

 

[CuseOnly]

Lol. You all are missing the point. We were not competitive. You are arguing semantics. We need to be in games from start to finish, week in and week out. That did not happen the last 3 years. THAT IS A FACT. Which was my point. I don't give a F what the reason or correct wording should be. What I do care about is that watching SU football will no longer be torture.

We aren't arguing semantics. You said that you didn't see effort from the kids under Shafer and you would be wrong. If you want to say that the team was still bad despite the effort given, I would agree with you based on the record at the end of the season.

Not once in Shafer's tenure did I see a lack of effort. We were giving effort from start to finish, just because you lose a game doesn't mean you didn't give your best effort to win.

If you don't give a F what the reason is, then don't give an incorrect one (effort) as the basis of your statement.

Watching SU football under Gerg was torture, under Marrone was nowhere near torture, we had some good teams and as a matter of fact some over-achieving teams. Under Shafer was just not good football but the effort was there.

 

[orange79]

Lol. You all are missing the point. We were not competitive. You are arguing semantics. We need to be in games from start to finish, week in and week out. That did not happen the last 3 years. THAT IS A FACT. Which was my point. I don't give a F what the reason or correct wording should be. What I do care about is that watching SU football will no longer be torture.

Actually, we are arguing a point you made. Your thread title is consistent effort. The consistent part? Yeah, I think we all agree that is an issue. The effort part? That was never a problem with FHCSS' teams. If you don't care what the correct wording should be, then don't complain when posters question or disagree with you on it.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Actually, we are arguing a point you made. Your thread title is consistent effort. The consistent part? Yeah, I think we all agree that is an issue. The effort part? That was never a problem with FHCSS' teams. If you don't care what the correct wording should be, then don't complain when posters question or disagree with you on it.

Actually you are quite WRONG. I meant effort more in the sense of the result of an attempt. That was poor. The numb nuts here are arguing effort as in the physical exertion put forth. So yes we are arguing the wording which is silly, but that is nothing new for this board.

And I would say there were games where the team did not give 110%. But again that was NEVER the point I was making.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You said that you didn't see effort from the kids under Shafer and you would be wrong.

Those words were never said. :crazy:

 

[TheCusian]

Actually you are quite WRONG. I meant effort more in the sense of the result of an attempt. That was poor. The numb nuts here are arguing effort as in the physical exertion put forth. So yes we are arguing the wording which is silly, but that is nothing new for this board. And I would say there were games where the team did not give 110%. But again that was NEVER the point I was making.

Instead of disparaging those who misinterpreted what you wrote, perhaps you should admit to the shoddy writing that led to the confusion. Otherwise one might surmise that the numb nut is the one who wrote the OP.

 

[RICuse44]

I think the key word here is preparation.

Georgia tech debacle comes to mind.

That 3-4 was the worst. I still have nightmares about it. The craziest part is the regular run defense was lights out that year

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

How bad has Syracuse football been over the last 15 years that people are defending how hard players tried under a former coach? Do we as fans really need to split hairs to get something positive out of bad seasons? The OP's point was that it was never a guarantee if our team was going to show up under Shafer, which is maddeningly true.

 

[TheCusian]

How bad has Syracuse football been over the last 15 years that people are defending how hard players tried under a former coach? Do we as fans really need to split hairs to get something positive out of bad seasons? The OP's point was that it was never a guarantee if our team was going to show up under Shafer, which is maddeningly true.

I'd like to think that the reason people are fired up about the use of the word "effort" is out of a genuine like for the former coach, no matter his record. That and they did play hard in many games that were out of reach or meaningless.

And yeah, we need to split hairs to get something positive out of bad seasons. Especially since so many of our current players were on those teams. Seems pertinent.

It was a guarantee that the team would show up and give consistent effort. What wasn't a given was the game plan or a realistic shot at out-scheming teams with better talent. I'd attribute most of the blow outs to that.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Actually you are quite WRONG. I meant effort more in the sense of the result of an attempt. That was poor. The numb nuts here are arguing effort as in the physical exertion put forth. So yes we are arguing the wording which is silly, but that is nothing new for this board. And I would say there were games where the team did not give 110%. But again that was NEVER the point I was making.

But how would anyone know that's what you meant explicitly? I thought you meant they didn't give effort, in the traditional sense, i.e. They gave up. So because you knew what you meant without explaining the meaning is somehow everyone else's fault? It was poor communication. Get your panties in a wad all you want, YOU didn't communicate clearly, which is why everyone jumped on it. Words on a forum do mean something. Being crystal clear with the intent of your words mean something when that's literally the only thing your audience has to go on.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I'd like to think that the reason people are fired up about the use of the word "effort" is out of a genuine like for the former coach, no matter his record. That and they did play hard in many games that were out of reach or meaningless.

And yeah, we need to split hairs to get something positive out of bad seasons. Especially since so many of our current players were on those teams. Seems pertinent.

It was a guarantee that the team would show up and give consistent effort. What wasn't a given was the game plan or a realistic shot at out-scheming teams with better talent. I'd attribute most of the blow outs to that.

I get not wanting to dump on Shafer. He was one of the most relate-able coaches I've ever seen.

And that doesn't mean players didn't try- obviously they did. But so many times, the team just didn't have "it." You know, that phenomenon where a team looks flat or timid or tired, and there's no real explanation for it? Guys are trying hard, but nothing's clicking. That happened way too often under Shafer.

 

[TheCusian]

I get not wanting to dump on Shafer. He was one of the most relate-able coaches I've ever seen.

And that doesn't mean players didn't try- obviously they did. But so many times, the team just didn't have "it." You know, that phenomenon where a team looks flat or timid or tired, and there's no real explanation for it? Guys are trying hard, but nothing's clicking. That happened way too often under Shafer.

Yeah, I agree that it happened. But I think it was scheme/game plan not player effort, that's all.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Yeah, I agree that it happened. But I think it was scheme/game plan not player effort, that's all.

I don't mean to stir the pot because I think we've reached an understanding, but do you consider the years of inconsistency on the offensive line and mental lapses in the secondary a scheme/game plan issue or coach/player effort?

 

[TheCusian]

I don't mean to stir the pot because I think we've reached an understanding, but do you consider the years of inconsistency on the offensive line and mental lapses in the secondary a scheme/game plan issue or coach/player effort?

Most of this stuff is hard to parse as the likely answer is "a bit of everything" (including recruiting).

But I think the offensive line was hurt by poor coaching and a weird scheme/system. The scheme on D was built to get to the QB and when it was working, it was pretty good. Last years mental lapses were a mix of not getting pressure on the QB (covering longer), coaching, and youth. If a Shafer D has a weak spot it's in the secondary - and if you take away the aggressiveness - it gets real ugly.

 

[qdawgg]

If he had named lester OC from day one he would still be our head coach

We could have only been so lucky, I would be in heaven right now if only this had happened....