COY

[Orangeyes]

Current standings from Liberty Mutual, three had been mentioned in our coaching searches

1 Bill O' Brien

2. Bill Snyder

3. Dan Mullen

4. Paul Rhoads

5. Brian Kelly

6. Nick Saban

7. Urban Meyer

8. Kevin Sumlin

9. Chip Kelly

10 Dabo Swinney

11. Mark Richt

12 Dan Holgorsen

13 Will Muschamp

14 Charlie Strong

15 Jim Mora

16 Mike Reilly

17 Kyle Flood

18 Steve Spurrier

19 Bo Pellini

20 Les Miles

The entire list including the other 3 divisions

 

[Rocco]

BOB has done an incredible job at PSU with the cards he was dealt...

 

[upperdeck]

Holgorsen ??

Pellini has done nothing with Neb.

 

[Upstate]

If Paul Rhoads wasn't an ISU golden boy, he'd be at a bigtime gig right now

 

[kingtidge]

Holgorsen ??

Wrong list... he's not on COY list... but is on MOY list... "Mullet of the Year"

 

[billsin01]

I know folks hate ND but how would Brian Kelly not be at the top of this list? 8-5 to 12-0, national title game berth, and it's not like ND is waltzing out All-American after All-American. I mean, they have good talent but they're not Miami 2001.

 

[billsin01]

Wrong list... he's not on COY list... but is on MOY list... "Mullet of the Year"

That's not cool man. I mean, come on, the guy is an innovator. If it weren't for him no one would have even thought of a comb-over mullet combo.

 

[Rocco]

I know folks hate ND but how would Brian Kelly not be at the top of this list? 8-5 to 12-0, national title game berth, and it's not like ND is waltzing out All-American after All-American. I mean, they have good talent but they're not Miami 2001.

Small difference is that ND gets whatever player they want. Most of these other schools have to battle for every player, and often times they lose. Completely different world if you ask me.

And Pitt handed ND a victory, so ND.

 

[ForCuseSake]

That's not cool man. I mean, come on, the guy is an innovator. If it weren't for him no one would have even thought of a comb-over mullet combo.

It's a skullet (technically speaking) and it belongs in the pantheon of awesomely craptastic hair.

 

[PhatOrange]

I know folks hate ND but how would Brian Kelly not be at the top of this list? 8-5 to 12-0, national title game berth, and it's not like ND is waltzing out All-American after All-American. I mean, they have good talent but they're not Miami 2001.

You're kidding right? Since 2008 their classes have had ranks of #2, #22, #14, #10 and #20. They sure are waltzing high school all american after high school american.

 

[billsin01]

Small difference is that ND gets whatever player they want. Most of these other schools have to battle for every player, and often times they lose. Completely different world if you ask me.

And Pitt handed ND a victory, so **** ND.

I don't know dude. You hate ND so this is probably pointless, but if the Irish were getting that much talent that routinely and winning was so easy there, they would have been a title contender at least a few times since 93. ND has a lot of advantages that many schools don't but I really don't think their recruiting advantage over most SEC/Big 10 schools is so drastic that it renders coaching aptitude meaningless. And gift-wrapped wins happen for all teams from time to time. Pitt blew it, no question, but even 11-1 would have been a remarkable season for what this program has been the last 20 years, IMO.

 

[Rocco]

I don't know dude. You hate ND so this is probably pointless, but if the Irish were getting that much talent that routinely and winning was so easy there, they would have been a title contender at least a few times since 93. ND has a lot of advantages that many schools don't but I really don't think their recruiting advantage over most SEC/Big 10 schools is so drastic that it renders coaching aptitude meaningless. And gift-wrapped wins happen for all teams from time to time. Pitt blew it, no question, but even 11-1 would have been a remarkable season for what this program has been the last 20 years, IMO.

Look at every class they've taken over the last 20 years. It is ridiculous. Horrible coaching hires. Davies, Willingham, Weis... The talent is there every year.

 

[Crusty]

Coaching is always the main ingredient. Any damn fool can buy groceries but it takes talent to cook it and have it come out right.

 

[billsin01]

Look at every class they've taken over the last 20 years. It is ridiculous. Horrible coaching hires. Davies, Willingham, Weis... The talent is there every year.

That is absolutely not true. There is no better indicator of your overall talent than the NFL draft b/c they don't care where you went as much as they care about measurables (perhaps even to a fault).

Number of ND players taken in the first round since 2000: 4 (2 were last year and, while people hate weis, he actually stepped up the recruiting from DAvie and Ty).

Number of SU players taken in the first round since 2000: 4


Unless you're considering that the golden era of Syracuse football, then that's a pretty serious indictment of just how much talent ND has had.

And I could go on. How about this -- ND players who've actually stuck around as starters for any length of time in the NFL since 2000:

David Givens, WR, NE (7th round)
Anthony Weaver, DE, Balt. (7 years)
Jeff Faine, C, Cle.
Julius Jones, RB, Dal
Justin Tuck, DE, NYG
Anthony Fasano, TE, Dal
John Carlson, TE, Sea
Golden Tate, WR, SEa
Kyle Rudolph, TE, Min
Too early to tell but maybe floyd and harrison smith make this list after being drafted last year.

But that's it. That's the list. 2 WRs, no QBs, 1 RB in 12 years? And how many all-pro or pro bowlers?

Cuse, by contrast:

Bullock
Greenwood
Will Allen
Freeney
Tanard Jackson prior to all the off-the-field stuff.

That gives ND a 9-5 edge in 12 years which include basically teh worst stretch of syracuse football ... ever.

Now, ND has no excuse for not recruiting talent and I'd argue that developing talent is more important for almost every school than simply recruiting it. BUT, the fact remains that saying Brian Kelly inherited some huge wealth of talent upon arriving at ND and only had to give it a nudge in the right direction is preposterous.

 

[billsin01]

You're kidding right? Since 2008 their classes have had ranks of #2, #22, #14, #10 and #20. They sure are waltzing high school all american after high school american.

Their classes have ranks that high partly because they get really good kids and partly b/c they are ND. But, I agree, they have stepped it up recruiting wise and this team has plenty of talent. T'eo, Shembo, Tuitt, Nix, Eiffort and Martin, at a minimum, will likley get drafted in the first round or two the next couple years and I'd guess most of those guys will be pretty good at the next level.

But anyone who'd take ND's roster over that of the SEC powers or the Pete Carroll USC teams or the early 2000 miami teams would be insane. They have talent, but Kelly has done a great job getting this group to the title game. 9-3 maybe 10-2 I would have called a really good year but not COY material. 12-0? Seems pretty ridiculous to me.

 

[Rocco]

That is absolutely not true. There is no better indicator of your overall talent than the NFL draft b/c they don't care where you went as much as they care about measurables (perhaps even to a fault).

Number of ND players taken in the first round since 2000: 4 (2 were last year and, while people hate weis, he actually stepped up the recruiting from DAvie and Ty).

Number of SU players taken in the first round since 2000: 4


Unless you're considering that the golden era of Syracuse football, then that's a pretty serious indictment of just how much talent ND has had.

And I could go on. How about this -- ND players who've actually stuck around as starters for any length of time in the NFL since 2000:

David Givens, WR, NE (7th round)
Anthony Weaver, DE, Balt. (7 years)
Jeff Faine, C, Cle.
Julius Jones, RB, Dal
Justin Tuck, DE, NYG
Anthony Fasano, TE, Dal
John Carlson, TE, Sea
Golden Tate, WR, SEa
Kyle Rudolph, TE, Min
Too early to tell but maybe floyd and harrison smith make this list after being drafted last year.

But that's it. That's the list. 2 WRs, no QBs, 1 RB in 12 years? And how many all-pro or pro bowlers?

Cuse, by contrast:

Bullock
Greenwood
Will Allen
Freeney
Tanard Jackson prior to all the off-the-field stuff.

That gives ND a 9-5 edge in 12 years which include basically teh worst stretch of syracuse football ... ever.

Now, ND has no excuse for not recruiting talent and I'd argue that developing talent is more important for almost every school than simply recruiting it. BUT, the fact remains that saying Brian Kelly inherited some huge wealth of talent upon arriving at ND and only had to give it a nudge in the right direction is preposterous.

Developing talent is one thing... almost all of their players coming out of HS are All-Americans or of some high award. Whether or not they develop into NFL players is another thing.

 

[billsin01]

Developing talent is one thing... almost all of their players coming out of HS are All-Americans or of some high award. Whether or not they develop into NFL players is another thing.

I don't know. I get what you're saying but if a guy is really talented but simply hasn't developed, he'll get drafted. And if he's a good football player and really talented, he's going to have success in the NFL. ND's been OK but hardly stellar compared to the top schools in this regard.

Regardless, your initial argument was that ND essentially hand-picks whomever they want and that somehow Kelly's success this season was not that impressive because of the sheer talent on the roster. We don't have to agree but I think both of those arguments are incorrect.

 

[Rocco]

I don't know. I get what you're saying but if a guy is really talented but simply hasn't developed, he'll get drafted. And if he's a good football player and really talented, he's going to have success in the NFL. ND's been OK but hardly stellar compared to the top schools in this regard.

Regardless, your initial argument was that ND essentially hand-picks whomever they want and that somehow Kelly's success this season was not that impressive because of the sheer talent on the roster. We don't have to agree but I think both of those arguments are incorrect.

Fair enough. Look, I'm in the business world and selling is a part of my job, I like to talk and use my hands. Articulating my opinion on a message board is a challenge for me. Haha.

 

[bnoro]

That is absolutely not true. There is no better indicator of your overall talent than the NFL draft b/c they don't care where you went as much as they care about measurables (perhaps even to a fault).

Number of ND players taken in the first round since 2000: 4 (2 were last year and, while people hate weis, he actually stepped up the recruiting from DAvie and Ty).

Number of SU players taken in the first round since 2000: 4


Unless you're considering that the golden era of Syracuse football, then that's a pretty serious indictment of just how much talent ND has had.

And I could go on. How about this -- ND players who've actually stuck around as starters for any length of time in the NFL since 2000:

David Givens, WR, NE (7th round)
Anthony Weaver, DE, Balt. (7 years)
Jeff Faine, C, Cle.
Julius Jones, RB, Dal
Justin Tuck, DE, NYG
Anthony Fasano, TE, Dal
John Carlson, TE, Sea
Golden Tate, WR, SEa
Kyle Rudolph, TE, Min
Too early to tell but maybe floyd and harrison smith make this list after being drafted last year.

But that's it. That's the list. 2 WRs, no QBs, 1 RB in 12 years? And how many all-pro or pro bowlers?

Cuse, by contrast:

Bullock
Greenwood
Will Allen
Freeney
Tanard Jackson prior to all the off-the-field stuff.

That gives ND a 9-5 edge in 12 years which include basically teh worst stretch of syracuse football ... ever.

Now, ND has no excuse for not recruiting talent and I'd argue that developing talent is more important for almost every school than simply recruiting it. BUT, the fact remains that saying Brian Kelly inherited some huge wealth of talent upon arriving at ND and only had to give it a nudge in the right direction is preposterous.

Steve Gregory? Quinn Ojinnaka? Jameel McClain? If you're including Tate what about Art Jones?

 

[billsin01]

Steve Gregory? Quinn Ojinnaka? Jameel McClain? If you're including Tate what about Art Jones?

McClain I missed and I always liked him. Gregory too. Ojinnaka is borderline to me -- has he been a full-time starter? And yeah, I feel like you could comfortably add Jones and Mike Williams to that list but since they are so recent I figured it might be hard to say definitively. If you do include those guys then there are probably a couple other ND guys you could add, but the numbers are pretty close.

 

[billsin01]

Fair enough. Look, I'm in the business world and selling is a part of my job, I like to talk and use my hands. Articulating my opinion on a message board is a challenge for me. Haha.

I'm good with that. I am in sales but am probably better at articulating my opinions on message boards. That's a bigger problem.