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Did ACA repeal die

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by rrlbees, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. Brooky03

    Brooky03 Master Debater. Don't get offended.

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    Then it never would have implemented and we'd unquestionably be in worse shape than we are now with healthcare. Premiums would be higher practically across the board. Poor people would be uninsured.
     
  2. SC Orange

    SC Orange Scout Team

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    What do you mean by Obamacare gave too much to the insurance companies?
     
  3. Hoo's That

    Hoo's That All Conference

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    Mandatory purchasers (especially in the GOP-controlled states that didn't form exchanges) and no restraint on rates.
     
    CuseFaninVT likes this.
  4. exits funnel

    exits funnel All American

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    There is nothing magical about healthcare. It is nothing more nor less than the labor of doctors and nurses and their various and sundry support staff. How can you possibly have an inalienable right to someone else's labor? That just seems so weird to me.
     
    lincolncuse and Bayside44 like this.
  5. Briancuse

    Briancuse Living Legend

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    He will get impeached before he can even get an approval rating.
     
  6. rrlbees

    rrlbees Administrator Staff Member

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    It's not weird to doctors and nurses. They will help anyone and they quite often do.
     
  7. Cusefan0307

    Cusefan0307 Hall of Fame

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    Why do we have police officers then?

    Oh I know why. To protect the privleged from the under privileged. Boom.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    KellySyracuse likes this.
  8. MiniCuse

    MiniCuse All Conference

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    - 10 for repeated spelling errors.
     
  9. SC Orange

    SC Orange Scout Team

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    Have you considered the fact that rates are predicated on the cost of the care? And that the law did nothing to help clarify or control the cost of care? In my mind if we do have regulated rates for services or at minimum published rates we can actually control costs.
     
  10. Rage4CUSE

    Rage4CUSE Starter

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    California and NYS population counts combined are a hair under 60,000,000.

    60 million out of 323 million is 19%. 2 states is almost a 5th of the entire nation.
     
  11. Hoo's That

    Hoo's That All Conference

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    Yup. And we will have those published rates when we eventually go to Single Payer (aka "Medicare for Everyone").
     
  12. SC Orange

    SC Orange Scout Team

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    Then there are no rates and none of this matters. If we go to a single payer system the positive of people having access to insurance will be outweighed by the myriad of negative economical consequences a single payer system would have.
     
  13. Cowtown

    Cowtown Adult Study Hall Overseer

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    Single payer works where I live. It's not perfect, and there are problems. But it's hardly the pluperfect hell the HMO's and their Republican puppets want you to believe.
     
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  14. SC Orange

    SC Orange Scout Team

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    Let's imagine we went full national health care. Do the hospital systems become government property or are the just paid by the government? How can top surgeons and doctors continue to be paid exorbitant salaries? Can the funding for innovation still exist? Will we still be a world leader in new and emergent medical technology?

    I think if I had a written plan of how it would function then I can really dig into the idea. But the hurdles, in my opinion, seem too high to make that change. What about all of the people employed by the health insurance companies and the ancillary service/support companies. Shoot here in Charleston Benefitfocus is one of the largest employers. They are a employee benefit technology company that is publicly traded. What happens to all of those folks invested in companies like this?

    As you can see I really just want more information.
     
    OburgOrange likes this.
  15. Capt. Tuttle

    Capt. Tuttle Living Legend

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    Untrue. That's what Medicaid was for.
    They should have had a buy in for Medicaid for people who were barely over the income threshold, between X income and up to Y income.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  16. Cowtown

    Cowtown Adult Study Hall Overseer

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    Both systems are a "work in progress," imho. To develop a better HC system takes time, perseverance, and some patience. There is no single, sweeping panacea to either one. I get tired of the "Oh, but that will never work!" types who shoot down every new development or plan with their impatient sneering (I don't mean you).

    I still have not gotten an honest answer to the questions, "Why did the HMO's have hundreds of millions of dollars to pour into the battle against the ACA? And why did they fight so hard for so long?" And you can be certain there's no altruism in the answers. But then, they're really rhetorical questions, I guess. :)
     
    CuseFaninVT likes this.
  17. Hoo's That

    Hoo's That All Conference

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    Everything depends on how you define "full national health care." If you're talking about single payer, think of it as "Medicare for everyone." The hospitals would still be owned and run by whoever owns and runs them now. The super-paid surgeons and doctors are going to either take a pay cut based on what expanded Medicare + Medigap insurance pays or charge their far fewer patients far more because they refuse to take anyone who will use expanded Medicare + Medigap to pay them. Those who invest in drug companies for "instant riches" are going to take a hit in their portfolio because the drug companies will have to plow a lot more of their profits back into their operations than into dividends (the first nail in the coffin of the UChicago "the company is your piggybank" model?). Medical technology originating in many parts of the world is originating in countries with true socialized medicine (hospitals owned and doctors employed by the government like the hospitals and doctors in our military and Public Health Service) or single-payer systems. The system we have is one of the outliers.

    And before you ask, yes, your taxes will go up because the government will have to take in more than the current 7% they get for Medicare. However, the market will drive health insurance costs down to a point at or very close to what Medigap insurance plans charge now. It will come very close to being a wash.
     
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  18. SC Orange

    SC Orange Scout Team

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    The answer to your question is simple, they were trying to protect profits so that their stock prices rise and investors are happy. The hundreds of millions spent on lobbying is less than the losses they have claimed from their plans offered on the exchange.
     
  19. xc84

    xc84 Hall of Fame

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    And if the HMOs are seemingly losing... then who is benefiting?
     
  20. bozophobe

    bozophobe 2nd String

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    Instead of Canada, we need to focus more on those systems in Europe that work well - guaranteed government coverage for all, but also access to private systems for those who want it.