Do we have clouded judgement?

[Henny & Coke]

A JB quote in recent article (about rarity of returning all starters) has me wondering something - here it is:

“The returning five have given rise to high expectations for this year's Orange, but SU coach Jim Boeheim preached caution, noting that Syracuse struggled to 20 regular-season wins last year.

"We have to be a lot better than we were last year,'' Boeheim said. "The (NCAA) tournament doesn't really matter. That's just an isolated instance. We played good for a week. We didn't play good for the whole year last year.''

My question: Are we letting our final impression of last years team (success in NCAA tournament) cloud our judgement about how good this year’s team may be?

Like many here I am extremely optimistic about the 2018-19 SU basketball team. Like, dreaming of a Final Four or more.

But is this optimism grounded in reality? Per JB, this is a team that did not look great heading into the Tournament last year...thoughts?

 

[DonLightfoot]

We probably do have clouded judgement. I believe that is based on all starters returning. However, that is not "my" only reason for being optimistic. I feel we have a better supporting cast than we have had for years and this heightens expectations.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I feel we have a better supporting cast than we have had for years

Indeed. Granted, poop happens, but they're much better equipped to handle the bumps in the road.

 

[chugg21]

Last year we had maybe 5.5 healthy bodies for most of the season so it was an absolute grind. I think both our ceiling and floor are significantly elevated from past years based both on experience and talent. If we lose double digit games during the regular season then something really went wrong and I will be extremely disappointed.

 

[Hoo's That]

Indeed. Granted, poop happens, but they're much better equipped to handle the bumps in the road.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[RF2044]

A JB quote in recent article (about rarity of returning all starters) has me wondering something - here it is:

“The returning five have given rise to high expectations for this year's Orange, but SU coach Jim Boeheim preached caution, noting that Syracuse struggled to 20 regular-season wins last year.

"We have to be a lot better than we were last year,'' Boeheim said. "The (NCAA) tournament doesn't really matter. That's just an isolated instance. We played good for a week. We didn't play good for the whole year last year.''

My question: Are we letting our final impression of last years team (success in NCAA tournament) cloud our judgement about how good this year’s team may be?

Like many here I am extremely optimistic about the 2018-19 SU basketball team. Like, dreaming of a Final Four or more.

But is this optimism grounded in reality? Per JB, this is a team that did not look great heading into the Tournament last year...thoughts?

I don't believe so -- I think that last year's team "peaked" when we started getting offensive contributions from a fourth scorer [Marek] that had been substantively lacking all year long.

This year's team features:

• Vastly improved depth
• Improved shooting
• MORE shooters
• Better floor spacing due to previous two bullet points
• More players who can attack off of the bounce to create scoring opportunities for themselves / others
• Multi-position versatility
• Entire starting lineup returns, with the belief that we can get it done [because we have]
• A lineup that doesn't force us to rush anybody out on the floor
• Boeheim being able to pull guys for others any given game if someone is having an "off night"
• Several players on the bench who could get double figures any given night

As painful as last year's offense often was, all of the elements are in place for a much more diversified / better shooting group this season. If scoring isn't such a struggle, and the defense is roughly the same, the sky is literally the limit for this year's squad.

 

[bigmike]

I don't believe so -- I think that last year's team "peaked" when we started getting offensive contributions from a fourth scorer [Marek] that had been substantively lacking all year long.

This year's team features:

• Vastly improved depth
• Improved shooting
• MORE shooters
• More players who can attack off of the bounce to create scoring opportunities for themselves / others
• Multi-position versatility
• Entire starting lineup returns, with the belief that we can get it done [because we have]
• A lineup that doesn't force us to rush anybody out on the floor
• Boeheim being able to pull guys for others any given game if someone is having an "off night"
• Several players on the bench who could get double figures any given night

As painful as last year's offense often was, all of the elements are in place for a much more diversified / better shooting group this season. If scoring isn't such a struggle, and the defense is roughly the same, the sky is literally the limit for this year's squad.

All good points. Defense is what I feel most confident in, and should be the launching pad for all the offensive improvements you cite.

 

[RF2044]

All good points. Defense is what I feel most confident in, and should be the launching pad for all the offensive improvements you cite.

The thing is, all of those improvements combined [along with fresher legs] might only shift the needle ~7 points, which would push us in the neighborhood of 75ppg.

Really, that's all we need. And that's what I honestly expect, given the roster enhancements.

 

[GooseMutt]

A JB quote in recent article (about rarity of returning all starters) has me wondering something - here it is:

“The returning five have given rise to high expectations for this year's Orange, but SU coach Jim Boeheim preached caution, noting that Syracuse struggled to 20 regular-season wins last year.

"We have to be a lot better than we were last year,'' Boeheim said. "The (NCAA) tournament doesn't really matter. That's just an isolated instance. We played good for a week. We didn't play good for the whole year last year.''

My question: Are we letting our final impression of last years team (success in NCAA tournament) cloud our judgement about how good this year’s team may be?

Like many here I am extremely optimistic about the 2018-19 SU basketball team. Like, dreaming of a Final Four or more.

But is this optimism grounded in reality? Per JB, this is a team that did not look great heading into the Tournament last year...thoughts?

Good question. I feel that we were young and inexperienced and came back and won many games on sheer will, being fierce competitors, team cohesion, and the guts to make big plays as needed. A selfless team playing for the good of all. Zero divas.

Now they return experienced with reinforcements and a chip on their shoulder. You can feel their confidence.( note players like Oshae and Tyus putting index finger on lips going shhhhhhh, don’t tell them yet)

Optimism must be tempered with caution as stated by coach but:

As a diehard fan I am extremely optimistic and I’m all in on this team

 

[dan7800]

I will reserve judgement until at least the start of ACC play. Two years ago I was convinced the team was unbelievably stacked.

 

[CousCuse]

Ain't that the truth.

 

[RF2044]

I will reserve judgement until at least the start of ACC play. Two years ago I was convinced the team was unbelievably stacked.

They were. But then, Chukwu and Coleman got injured. Frank performed poorly and then sustained an injury. Roberson had a shocking regression for a returning starter, and got benched. Both Battle and Lydon struggled with soft tissue injuries that impaired them a bit. Suddenly, that stacked team was depleted fast.

To top that off, JB experimented with a horrible lineup to start the season, which had several players playing out of position, with highly non-complimentary skill sets. We got off to a bad start, and didn't recover until after JB committed to a new lineup -- after which we went 10-7 in conference play and beat three top 10 rated teams, but it was too little / too late to overcome the worst OOC performance in JB's tenure. Making matters worse, we came within one game of doing so.

If we'd made those changes sooner, the record would have been better. If we hadn't gotten hit so hard by the injury bug, the record would have been better. That's where the scholarship restrictions really bit us in the arse.

 

[Townie72]

"Clouded judgement"? This board is headquarters for "clouded judgement" as well as violent mood swings based on last night's game.

JB's point is that instead of using the Tourney run as the baseline for judging last year's team, we should instead use the entirety of the season.

He's saying that this team is better than last year's, but that the improvement is over the majority of the season and not the performance in the hot streak or the 6 or 8 best games they played.

I can't imagine how this isn't logical. But I do understand the optimism of the fans, especially those with short memories. But, still, most of the posters on here are long-time watchers of SU and college basketball and you would expect that they should "get it".

IF the defense is as good as it was at the end of the season. (Keep in mind, in the Tourney we are playing teams that haven't seen the SU zone much or at all).

AND IF the offense is better and it's hard to imagine it wouldn't be, then the team is better. But better than what? The Tourney run or the 20+games that proceeded it?

I actually don't care. Knock yourself out, but then if reality bites, resist all the "sky is falling" and "JB must go." stuff.

This team will almost certainly be better than the short-handed, frequently-injured, offensively-challenged 2017-18 version. But how much better? Talk to me in mid-February, not October.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Good question. I feel that we were young and inexperienced and came back and won many games on sheer will, being fierce competitors, team cohesion, and the guts to make big plays as needed. A selfless team playing for the good of all. Zero divas.

Now they return experienced with reinforcements and a chip on their shoulder. You can feel their confidence.( note players like Oshae and Tyus putting index finger on lips going shhhhhhh, don’t tell them yet)

Optimism must be tempered with caution as stated by coach but:

As a diehard fan I am extremely optimistic and I’m all in on this team

Last year was one injury away from JAB's first sub .500 season. Many thought that Geno Thorpe was going to be an important cog to the team's success. He left. Sidibe only played 30 games. HoWa only played 18 games. Bayer stepped up in big in one game. Moyer has some issues.

Everyone else played better as the season progressed which culminated in a last time entrant into the NCAA. Who even expected us to get invited. Better yet, who expected us to get invited and win some games.

The five guys left really gained confidence and jelled down the stretch. People talked about Loyola of Chicago but what our guys did being so short handed was equally as impressive. For all the reasons everyone has mentioned give great reasons to be optimistic. No one is printing up 40-0 t-shirts, although Holy Shirt probably already has a design picked out.

Hopefully this year is a magical run. Pieces are in place but as we have seen in the past, the season can be very fickle. If everyone stays healthy, if everyone plays as expected, if there is no drama, if we catch a break or two then yes, we have every right to think we are going to have a special season.

 

[General20]

A JB quote in recent article (about rarity of returning all starters) has me wondering something - here it is:

“The returning five have given rise to high expectations for this year's Orange, but SU coach Jim Boeheim preached caution, noting that Syracuse struggled to 20 regular-season wins last year.

"We have to be a lot better than we were last year,'' Boeheim said. "The (NCAA) tournament doesn't really matter. That's just an isolated instance. We played good for a week. We didn't play good for the whole year last year.''

My question: Are we letting our final impression of last years team (success in NCAA tournament) cloud our judgement about how good this year’s team may be?

Like many here I am extremely optimistic about the 2018-19 SU basketball team. Like, dreaming of a Final Four or more.

But is this optimism grounded in reality? Per JB, this is a team that did not look great heading into the Tournament last year...thoughts?

If anything, I think people are setting the bar too low based on last year's performance.

If you want to glean anything from Boeheim's soundbites, you have to think like a coach.

He doesnt think or talk like a fan. His job is to get the most out of his team, so he is looking at and talking about untapped potentoal, most of the time.

He usually compliments the players and teams who perform closest to their ceiling and is hardest on the players and teams with the most room for improvement.

If he thought least years record was the ceiling this year, he would never say they had a bad year. He'd be talking about what's great run they had.

The fact that he classified last season as a bad season means he thinks this team can do much better.

 

[Townie72]

A JB quote in recent article (about rarity of returning all starters) has me wondering something - here it is:

“The returning five have given rise to high expectations for this year's Orange, but SU coach Jim Boeheim preached caution, noting that Syracuse struggled to 20 regular-season wins last year.

"We have to be a lot better than we were last year,'' Boeheim said. "The (NCAA) tournament doesn't really matter. That's just an isolated instance. We played good for a week. We didn't play good for the whole year last year.''

My question: Are we letting our final impression of last years team (success in NCAA tournament) cloud our judgement about how good this year’s team may be?

Like many here I am extremely optimistic about the 2018-19 SU basketball team. Like, dreaming of a Final Four or more.

But is this optimism grounded in reality? Per JB, this is a team that did not look great heading into the Tournament last year...thoughts?

"Dreaming of a Final Four" is fine. Expecting it is borderline nuts. Assuming you aren't a very new fan of CBB.

 

[Trueblue25]

After watching 20 years of college basketball, multiple things about this team stick out to me.


Dynamic upperclassmen guard duo - Check.

Experienced, provenly effective defensive approach - Check.

Hungry contributors coming off the bench - we’ve heard this is the case, need to see it first. But I’d say we have the next one.

Depth - Check.

Rebounding and low post presence - Check.

Charismatic star who’s done it before and will do it again (kemba effect) - check.

 

[Ptzburghcuse]

After watching 20 years of college basketball, multiple things about this team stick out to me.


Dynamic upperclassmen guard duo - Check.

Experienced, provenly effective defensive approach - Check.

Hungry contributors coming off the bench - we’ve heard this is the case, need to see it first. But I’d say we have the next one.

Depth - Check.

Rebounding and low post presence - Check.

Charismatic star who’s done it before and will do it again (kemba effect) - check.

Free throw shooting percentages (double check)

 

[Eric15]

I will reserve judgement until at least the start of ACC play. Two years ago I was convinced the team was unbelievably stacked.

I'm in the same boat. I'm cautiously optimistic. It's been five calendar years since we were a Top 25-level basketball team. I think we absolutely could be that this year, but I want to see it.

 

[AlaskaSU]

My indicator will be the play of Marek. Our tourney success came from his new found offensive contribution. Hughes is a reasonable fall-back but you cannot teach 6'10" and height is crucial to our D. If Hughes is in then our PF goes down to 6'8". Marek is the key. His push shot is completely funky but if he can make it work again I'll have high expectations for the season.

 

[UnknownOrange]

A JB quote in recent article (about rarity of returning all starters) has me wondering something - here it is:

“The returning five have given rise to high expectations for this year's Orange, but SU coach Jim Boeheim preached caution, noting that Syracuse struggled to 20 regular-season wins last year.

"We have to be a lot better than we were last year,'' Boeheim said. "The (NCAA) tournament doesn't really matter. That's just an isolated instance. We played good for a week. We didn't play good for the whole year last year.''

My question: Are we letting our final impression of last years team (success in NCAA tournament) cloud our judgement about how good this year’s team may be?

Like many here I am extremely optimistic about the 2018-19 SU basketball team. Like, dreaming of a Final Four or more.

But is this optimism grounded in reality? Per JB, this is a team that did not look great heading into the Tournament last year...thoughts?

Buddy if you think the posters here on SyracuseFan are biased to the Syracuse basketball team and set our expectations outrageously high then you are absolutely right go orange #1

 

[SoBeCuse]

It makes sense what Boeheim said. I and others were mocked on here a few months ago echoing basically what Boeheim said. That a good week of squeaking by against unfamiliar teams in the Tourney doesn’t mean we had a good season OVERALL. It took Marek’s play in the Tourney to ensure we were scoring over 50 points in these games, lol. Not good. But, it’s going to take improvements from all the guys as well as good play from the newcomers to sustain a solid season where we don’t have to worry about going to Dayton or the NIT. From all accounts; things are looking really good. Really like how it seems everybody, players and coaches, are stressing to keep moving the ball and playing at a faster tempo. The D will be fine.

 

[bballbeadle]

Last year we had maybe 5.5 healthy bodies for most of the season so it was an absolute grind. I think both our ceiling and floor are significantly elevated from past years based both on experience and talent. If we lose double digit games during the regular season then something really went wrong and I will be extremely disappointed.

Disappointed? I will commit seppuku.

 

[NorSyr66]

Good question that generated several very interesting and insightful comments. Not much I can add without repeating comments from above. As JB usually says, "take them one game at a time". Lots can be said about the grittiness of last year's 5.5 players, and to have them all back plus reinforcements is a big plus. Last year was a progression of growing pains and they (barely) survived major injuries while the defense constantly improved. Now if the offense can make some solid steps forward and the players can avoid major injuries, then this year should meet the higher expectations being discussed. Can hardly wait for the season to begin.

 

[FireballPhil]

A JB quote in recent article (about rarity of returning all starters) has me wondering something - here it is:

“The returning five have given rise to high expectations for this year's Orange, but SU coach Jim Boeheim preached caution, noting that Syracuse struggled to 20 regular-season wins last year.

"We have to be a lot better than we were last year,'' Boeheim said. "The (NCAA) tournament doesn't really matter. That's just an isolated instance. We played good for a week. We didn't play good for the whole year last year.''

My question: Are we letting our final impression of last years team (success in NCAA tournament) cloud our judgement about how good this year’s team may be?

Like many here I am extremely optimistic about the 2018-19 SU basketball team. Like, dreaming of a Final Four or more.

But is this optimism grounded in reality? Per JB, this is a team that did not look great heading into the Tournament last year...thoughts?

J.B. is 100% correct. Yes we should be better offensively, but one must also remember when the new guys are on the floor there will be a slip in defense as well. And the bench is not going to get significant enough playing time to quickly improve, it will be a season long process. We are going to struggle in some game that we shouldn't simply because of this. Overall there is more of a definitive upside, but this board WILL melt down a time or two this season. Book it.