Dordevic | Syracusefan.com

Dordevic

Zepharus

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Attack is all about dodging, passing and positioning.. Im sure the kid will do well
 

CuSeLaX

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Hmmmm Curry a much better passer. Maybe they wanna play Tucker on the crease ?
 

PhatOrange

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did dordevic grow up playing attack and get switched to middie at Syracuse ?

I think it's easier for a lifelong attackman to move up to the midfield than it is for a life long midfielder to drop down and play attack. It's not plug and play imo. Kids groomed at attack have spent their whole lives playing against long sticks and they've developed certain skills because of it. Inherent skills, instinctual skills. I typically don't see these things when dropping a lifelong middie down. Middies have grown up alley dodging and to then ask them to play behind cage and with one hand against a 6 foot pole is a little different animal. Some kids are elite and can handle it, some don't adjust all that great.

I'd rather we just recruit attackman and midfielders rather than move kids around.
 
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ForCuseSake

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did dordevic grow up playing attack and get switched to middie at Syracuse ?

I think it's easier for a lifelong attackman to move up to the midfield than it is for a life long midfielder to drop down and play attack. It's not plug and play imo. Kids groomed at attack have spent their whole lives playing against long sticks and they've developed certain skills because of it. Inherent skills, instinctual skills. I typically don't see these things when dropping a lifelong middie down. Middies have grown up alley dodging and to then ask them to play behind cage and with one hand against a 6 foot pole is a little different animal. Some kids are elite and can handle it, some don't adjust all that great.

I'd rather we just recruit attackman and midfielders rather than move kids around.

Dordevic played attack & midfield for club teams so hopefully he can leverage some of that experience despite it being years ago.

Agree 100% regarding the challenges of slotting a middie at attack. Another byproduct of the growing club scene in the game is some excellent middies who play on elite club teams don't get as much experience dodging LSMs. Many of these teams are so loaded with talented midfield players that they have the luxury of running skilled middies against short stick defenders.
 

NazLax30

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Also, there’s so much complaining on here about the lack of an elite attackman. And so much handwringing about how there might be too many talented middies on this team and it’ll be impossible to get them all enough run to keep them happy.

Well, this would help alleviate both of those problems.

Dordevic was, and probably still is, the best offensive player on the team. He needs to be on the field as much as possible. This would get him there. The offense is fluid enough that he can dodge from wherever he wants. See: Nick Mariano.

You also need to consider that he’s coming off foot surgery. Maybe it’s not the best idea to have him running back in transition to play defense and get dodged on.
 

Faegan

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I agree with PhatOrange that it does take a lot of training to avoid/withstand the beating you (can) take from long poles at attacl. Some of the "toughest" middies I've coached have begrudgingly admitted they don't like playing attack because of this reality.

Here are a few quotes from his recruitment thread:

"Among the most talented 2017’s the West has to offer, Dordevic had the Rhino offense churning when he had the rock in his hands. He used great deception, including one goal where he turned the corner and seemingly without even looking, whipped a shot near pipe to draw a raucous reaction from the sidelines."

"he’s quick as a hiccup with the ball in his stick and often made it look easy as he darted through defenses with impressive scores in close and nasty time & room finishes. I’d like to see him develop his ability to deal with double teams and his passing game before he suits up for the Orange, but what stands out is how he has gotten better and better each time I’ve seen him."


All that said, maybe they are thinking of inverting him rather than have him play as a true attackman?
 

JeremyCuse

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did dordevic grow up playing attack and get switched to middie at Syracuse ?

I think it's easier for a lifelong attackman to move up to the midfield than it is for a life long midfielder to drop down and play attack. It's not plug and play imo. Kids groomed at attack have spent their whole lives playing against long sticks and they've developed certain skills because of it. Inherent skills, instinctual skills. I typically don't see these things when dropping a lifelong middie down. Middies have grown up alley dodging and to then ask them to play behind cage and with one hand against a 6 foot pole is a little different animal. Some kids are elite and can handle it, some don't adjust all that great.

I'd rather we just recruit attackman and midfielders rather than move kids around.

Dordevic played attack in high school as well as club as someone noted. Certainly not the optimal answer but at this point if your SU I don't think you have a choice. You need an elite player at attack and Dordevic would appear to be that guy and he does have prior attack experience.
 

JeremyCuse

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I agree with PhatOrange that it does take a lot of training to avoid/withstand the beating you (can) take from long poles at attacl. Some of the "toughest" middies I've coached have begrudgingly admitted they don't like playing attack because of this reality.

Here are a few quotes from his recruitment thread:

"Among the most talented 2017’s the West has to offer, Dordevic had the Rhino offense churning when he had the rock in his hands. He used great deception, including one goal where he turned the corner and seemingly without even looking, whipped a shot near pipe to draw a raucous reaction from the sidelines."

"he’s quick as a hiccup with the ball in his stick and often made it look easy as he darted through defenses with impressive scores in close and nasty time & room finishes. I’d like to see him develop his ability to deal with double teams and his passing game before he suits up for the Orange, but what stands out is how he has gotten better and better each time I’ve seen him."


All that said, maybe they are thinking of inverting him rather than have him play as a true attackman?

Good points, I would say though if their going to move him to attack then play him there 100%. Some guys like Mariano can transition back and forth without issue but most guys struggle when they're getting moved all over the place. Part of the issue I think Cook had this year was moving around from attack to midfield he never got a chance to get comfortable anywhere. If SU is serious about moving Dordevic which from all account they are, move him there 100% and see how it goes. If it's a disaster simply move him back to middie.
 

DoctahLexus

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Dordevic’s dodges have a good deal more shake than Curry’s who is more of a run really fast in one direction type of guy. Dordevic is arguably more suited for attack based on that alone. Ankle braking moves like Dordevic's are probably easier to adapt to the attack position than Curry-style alley dodges. He is going to have an impact no matter what position he plays. He scored plenty of goals dodging against a long pole last year and that wont end if he plays at attack. I could see him doing his patented pivot/spin move behind the cage with great results. The one concern with pretty much every option is who can catch in traffic and finish the way both solomon and voigt did? It was one of the best aspects of Solomons game and Voigt was a serious wizard with it this year. Hopefully we can get Dordevic playing some box lacrosse once he's healthy.
 

PhatOrange

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Matt Moore never played attack before this year. He did OK.

yeah like I said elite kids are fine...but the handful of examples that will be presented to me as evidence that it works 100% across the board are actually a fraction of the real world success rates. People who might say it's no big deal don't know the game.

my opinion is based on playing both positions in hs and college, coaching for years and watching countless 100's of hours of youth, club and high school lacrosse.

I'm also not one of those people who think we're loaded with too many talented middies.
 
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ohmilax34

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yeah like I said elite kids are fine...but the handful of examples that will be presented to me as evidence that it works 100% across the board are actually a fraction of the real world success rates. People who might say it's no big deal don't know the game.

my opinion is based on playing both positions in hs and college, coaching for years and watching countless 100's of hours of youth, club and high school lacrosse.

I'm also not one of those people who think we're loaded with too many talented middies.
I agree. And the last sentence is interesting. If Syracuse can have two great offensive midfield lines that have multiple scoring threats, then I don’t think the coaches will care too much if the attack’s isn’t elite, as long as the attacker’s are being covered by long sticks. Pat Carlin was a mainstay on the second Middie line for a while but wasn’t very productive except for a stretch in 2018. SU needs consistent production from the s cons line middies. If that means lipka, buttermore and a third guy then I think the coaches are good with that.
 

PhatOrange

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Also, there’s so much complaining on here about the lack of an elite attackman. And so much handwringing about how there might be too many talented middies on this team and it’ll be impossible to get them all enough run to keep them happy.

Well, this would help alleviate both of those problems.

Dordevic was, and probably still is, the best offensive player on the team. He needs to be on the field as much as possible. This would get him there. The offense is fluid enough that he can dodge from wherever he wants. See: Nick Mariano.

You also need to consider that he’s coming off foot surgery. Maybe it’s not the best idea to have him running back in transition to play defense and get dodged on.

Nick Mariano played attack at Yorktown HS. Led Section1 in scoring and was an All-American.
 

ForCuseSake

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Also, there’s so much complaining on here about the lack of an elite attackman. And so much handwringing about how there might be too many talented middies on this team and it’ll be impossible to get them all enough run to keep them happy.

Well, this would help alleviate both of those problems.

Dordevic was, and probably still is, the best offensive player on the team. He needs to be on the field as much as possible. This would get him there. The offense is fluid enough that he can dodge from wherever he wants. See: Nick Mariano.

You also need to consider that he’s coming off foot surgery. Maybe it’s not the best idea to have him running back in transition to play defense and get dodged on.

Not having an elite attackman makes it easier for opposing defenses to double pole the midfield (as was done many times this year).

And then we're back to the issue of having midfielders, albeit talented players, attempting to dodge against long stick defenders. Not an optimal approach, imo.
 

PhatOrange

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Dordevic’s dodges have a good deal more shake than Curry’s who is more of a run really fast in one direction type of guy. Dordevic is arguably more suited for attack based on that alone. Ankle braking moves like Dordevic's are probably easier to adapt to the attack position than Curry-style alley dodges. He is going to have an impact no matter what position he plays. He scored plenty of goals dodging against a long pole last year and that wont end if he plays at attack. I could see him doing his patented pivot/spin move behind the cage with great results. The one concern with pretty much every option is who can catch in traffic and finish the way both solomon and voigt did? It was one of the best aspects of Solomons game and Voigt was a serious wizard with it this year. Hopefully we can get Dordevic playing some box lacrosse once he's healthy.

would agree here and you mostly answered my questions I would have about Dordevic moving down.
 

NazLax30

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yeah like I said elite kids are fine...but the handful of examples that will be presented to me as evidence that it works 100% across the board are actually a fraction of the real world success rates. People who might say it's no big deal don't know the game.

my opinion is based on playing both positions in hs and college, coaching for years and watching countless 100's of hours of youth, club and high school lacrosse.

I'm also not one of those people who think we're loaded with too many talented middies.

I agree that not everyone could play both. But if anyone on this roster can, it’s Dordevic.
 

JeremyCuse

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Not having an elite attackman makes it easier for opposing defenses to double pole the midfield (as was done many times this year).

And then we're back to the issue of having midfielders, albeit talented players, attempting to dodge against long stick defenders. Not an optimal approach, imo.

This X 100. In both the UNC and Loyola games, they were double polling the midfield pretty much the entire game. Voigt found away to break through but the midfield overall had some struggles and we weren't able to punish them for double polling for the most part.
 

JeremyCuse

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yeah like I said elite kids are fine...but the handful of examples that will be presented to me as evidence that it works 100% across the board are actually a fraction of the real world success rates. People who might say it's no big deal don't know the game.

my opinion is based on playing both positions in hs and college, coaching for years and watching countless 100's of hours of youth, club and high school lacrosse.

I'm also not one of those people who think we're loaded with too many talented middies.

I do admit the Midfield depth SU appeared to have on paper did not come though in the actual season. That said I would have to think with essentially everyone returning save for Carlin who really made little to no impact the depth should be a lot better. Guys like Magnan and Quinn will have another year in the system (Magnan especially) not to mention Fiorini, the Kim Twins plus Levandowski and Rosa.
 

ohmilax34

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This X 100. In both the UNC and Loyola games, they were double polling the midfield pretty much the entire game. Voigt found away to break through but the midfield overall had some struggles and we weren't able to punish them for double polling for the most part.
But they put a short stick on Voigt, right? He’s gone. If rehfuss, cook and seebold are the attack, there is no pure crease guy. Seebold only played a little each game but wasn’t guarded with a short stick when he played. This may not be an elite attack group, but it’s also hard to put a short stick on anyone.
 

PhatOrange

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I love the size of Seebold and Berkman but they've got to show something before they can be penciled in. Aburn and Nelson TDB.

Camden Hay is my wildcard. Big lefty attackman (6'+ 190) who's played at the highest levels of high school and club. Can he come in and nail it down?

I do believe Cook grabs a starting spot next season and will develop. He has a high IQ and elite quickness. Two things that can't be taught. He will learn to play with his size and will learn how to make that an advantage.

Dordevic seems like he could move.

The midfield I like to see Curry, Dordevic and Buttermore. Obviously Trimboli isn't going anywhere and will start.

1's Curry, Trimboli, and/or Dordevic, Lipka/Buttermore.

After the first line it's a crapshoot. Figure Lipka and Buttermore are in the top 6. one thing I really like about the rest of our middies is size. Magnan, Fiorini (bville one), Kims all BIG.
 
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W'boro'Cuse315

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I love the size of Seebold and Berkman but they've got to show something before they can be penciled in. Aburn and Nelson TDB.

Camden Hay is my wildcard. Big lefty attackman (6'+ 190) who's played at the highest levels of high school and club. Can he come in and nail it down?

I do believe Cook grabs a starting spot next season and will develop. He has a high IQ and elite quickness. Two things that can't be taught. He will learn to play with his size and will learn how to make that an advantage.

Dordevic seems like he could move.

The midfield I like to see Curry, Dordevic and Buttermore. Obviously Trimboli isn't going anywhere and will start.

1's Curry, Trimboli, and/or Dordevic, Lipka/Buttermore.

After the first line it's a crapshoot. Figure Lipka and Buttermore are in the top 6. ne thing I really like about the rest of our middies is size. Magnan, Fiorini (bville one), Kims all BIG.
FYI, Hay is in the ‘20 class with one more year of HS left. Also, just so everyone’s on the same page because he’s transferred twice & redshirted, Jake Nelson will be a 5th yr senior with 1 season of eligibility remaining. I just keep seeing people lump him in with our “young players”.
 

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