Dordevic's injury really exposes the fact that SU over-scheduled again

JeremyCuse

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I know have beaten this horse to pulp already this year but with Dordevic lost indefinitely if not for the year at this point the decision to only schedule 12 games and of those 12 play maybe 1 possibly 2 "cupcake" type teams seems ludicrious.

Yes I know Bingo was lost due to the idiotic change to the ACC tourney schedule but if you look at the other ACC teams each is playing 2 -3 extremely extremely winnable games. Where are those breathers on our schedule?

This issue goes back a few years ago when Desko decided to schedule tougher after getting stuck with an 8 seed after winning the ACC tourney because of our RIP. However, that year was an anomaly when multiple teams were down who normally are fairly good ie Cornell. Hopkins and Albany who was transitioning from the first year post the Thompsons. St. Johns and Bingo were god awful that year which also dragged down our numbers a bit. That being said imagine if SU was playing the 2016 schedule this year, would anyone really say we were playing a soft OOC? Having to play Duke, UNC, ND, UVA, Cornell, Albany and Johns Hopkins every year should be more then enough. One of Navy or Rutgers should have been re-scheduled to next year and SU should be playing a Siena or St. Bonnies or Canisius type in its place and kept Bingo on the schedule as a mid week game.

The schedule at this point is really overkill. Having the #1 SOS and a great RPI is nice but doesn't mean jack if were not eligible for the NCAA tourney or have to get in by the skin of our teeth like last year. Desko and the staff have to schedule better especially after seeing what happened last year with pretty much the same schedule. If we have to play an additional mid week game then so be it but we scheduled this year like were Yale and were definitely not. It's something Kramer or another one of the lax media guys needs to ask Desko about as I just don't get it.
 

NazLax30

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Weren’t there a lot of complaints two years ago that the schedule wasn’t strong enough? On the laxpower board, I believe. Can’t have it both ways. Everyone is banging the National Championship or Bust drum. Well if Cuse is the best team this year, then who cares who they play? They should be able to beat anyone if they’re as good as everyone hopes they are.

If they can’t beat Rutgers or Navy in the regular season, they’re not beating Yale or Maryland in the national semifinals. Beating Bingo 21-4 or whatever it was last year did NOTHING to help them last year. If anything, they thought they were better than they were and then Albany kicked them in the teeth.

Dordevic is an important player, but he’s not Gary Gait. Cuse has depth and skill at the midfield. They have athletic attackmen who can run out of the box. They have coaches who are great at coaching lacrosse. Maybe you don’t like Desko’s administrative decisions, but he can coach a lacrosse game.

Let them play a game. Goodness.
 

JeremyCuse

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Weren’t there a lot of complaints two years ago that the schedule wasn’t strong enough? On the laxpower board, I believe. Can’t have it both ways. Everyone is banging the National Championship or Bust drum. Well if Cuse is the best team this year, then who cares who they play? They should be able to beat anyone if they’re as good as everyone hopes they are.

If they can’t beat Rutgers or Navy in the regular season, they’re not beating Yale or Maryland in the national semifinals. Beating Bingo 21-4 or whatever it was last year did NOTHING to help them last year. If anything, they thought they were better than they were and then Albany kicked them in the teeth.

Dordevic is an important player, but he’s not Gary Gait. Cuse has depth and skill at the midfield. They have athletic attackmen who can run out of the box. They have coaches who are great at coaching lacrosse. Maybe you don’t like Desko’s administrative decisions, but he can coach a lacrosse game.

Let them play a game. Goodness.
I must have missed it but I don't recall anyone complaining that the schedule wasn't tough enough at all a few years ago. The point isn't National championship or bust or that they should be able to beat everyone they play its that you also have to schedule for success. When you have what is still a relatively young team and play in the best conference in the sport you don't have to schedule like your Albany because your in-conference opponents are bad. Also it definitely matters who you play as we nearly found that out last season when we were barely eligible for the tournament based on W/L record.

The grind of the season can be a real factor and we saw it last year during a few stretches when SU just got blown out of the building. It takes a toll on a team playing a top 25/30 team week in and week out. Playing a few cupcake games allows the staff to get some guys some rest and gets some younger players who are buried on the depth chart some run and keep them engaged with the season despite the lack of PT.

Dordevic while certainly not Gary Gait is a massive loss to this team, if you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. He's probably the top midfielder and at worst the one with the highest ceiling who really looked poised to take that next step this year. While we certainly have a lot of depth (at least on paper), multiple guys will need to step up and stay healthy themselves. I don't think anyone is giving up on the season but he's one of the last guys you would want to see go down.

As for Desko I have no issue with his admin decisions or his ability to coach, however, we have made 1 final four the last decade and haven't gotten out of the 2nd round in six years. He's not exactly lighting it up recently so I think its more then reasonable to question this strategy.
 

ivorytower

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Weren’t there a lot of complaints two years ago that the schedule wasn’t strong enough? On the laxpower board, I believe. Can’t have it both ways. Everyone is banging the National Championship or Bust drum. Well if Cuse is the best team this year, then who cares who they play? They should be able to beat anyone if they’re as good as everyone hopes they are.

If they can’t beat Rutgers or Navy in the regular season, they’re not beating Yale or Maryland in the national semifinals. Beating Bingo 21-4 or whatever it was last year did NOTHING to help them last year. If anything, they thought they were better than they were and then Albany kicked them in the teeth.

Dordevic is an important player, but he’s not Gary Gait. Cuse has depth and skill at the midfield. They have athletic attackmen who can run out of the box. They have coaches who are great at coaching lacrosse. Maybe you don’t like Desko’s administrative decisions, but he can coach a lacrosse game.

Let them play a game. Goodness.
Even Alabama football schedules some breathers. The players are students going to class, balancing studies, practices, social life. Season a grind for all but playing tough teams can be both mentally and physically draining.

Prefer a competitive schedule but a sprinkling of games that would allow them to take a breath every now or then instead of facing high hurdles almost every game would refresh.

One small blessing is no travel time in first half of season given the string of several home games.
 

JeremyCuse

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Even Alabama football schedules some breathers. The players are students going to class, balancing studies, practices, social life. Season a grind for all but playing tough teams can be both mentally and physically draining.

Prefer a competitive schedule but a sprinkling of games that would allow them to take a breath every now or then instead of facing high hurdles almost every game would refresh.

One small blessing is no travel time in first half of season given the string of several home games.
This is spot on and I think you did a better job of explaining my position then I did.

One thing that may help SU is that I expect Army and Navy to both be down this year. I know Army has what looks like another real good D but their offense struggled last year and they lost just about everyone who had a pulse on it to graduation. Navy lost a ton to graduation as well.
 

NazLax30

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Jeremy, I do recall that. I’d go back and find it, but, well ... RIP laxpower. Once Maryland left the ACC (which was longer than 2 years ago, obviously), the concern became what happens since there was no automatic qualifier. So there were calls to beef up the schedule. And now they’ve done that. And now that’s a problem.

Your point is well taken on the grind, but perhaps that’s why (in addition to the absurdity of the ACC tournament) there are only 12 games scheduled. Also, I present Yale’s 2018 schedule:

2018 Yale Men's Lacrosse Schedule

The Ivy League isn’t the ACC, but we know how good Cornell is and Penn is good too. Michigan almost beat Hopkins last year. Not as tough a schedule but it wasn’t an easy path (except for Dartmouth, obviously, and whatever Brown turned into last year).

As for Cuse’s schedule this year, Albany will be good not great. Army and Navy lost a lot, as was noted. Nothing about Carolina impresses me. Notre Dame is overrated.

Can’t make up my mind about Virginia. They’ll probably average 16 goals per game and give up 15.

Rutgers at home certainly helps. Mellen needs to lock down Charalambides and Cuse needs to control possessions. Can see that as a 13-9 type victory.

Colgate is only a concern because you can’t prepare for a team with a new coach you haven’t seen.

The three biggest problems are Duke, Cornell and probably Hopkins. Good. Bring it.

I know that’s only 11, but I can’t for the life of me remember the 12th opponent.
 

JeremyCuse

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Jeremy, I do recall that. I’d go back and find it, but, well ... RIP laxpower. Once Maryland left the ACC (which was longer than 2 years ago, obviously), the concern became what happens since there was no automatic qualifier. So there were calls to beef up the schedule. And now they’ve done that. And now that’s a problem.

Your point is well taken on the grind, but perhaps that’s why (in addition to the absurdity of the ACC tournament) there are only 12 games scheduled. Also, I present Yale’s 2018 schedule:

2018 Yale Men's Lacrosse Schedule

The Ivy League isn’t the ACC, but we know how good Cornell is and Penn is good too. Michigan almost beat Hopkins last year. Not as tough a schedule but it wasn’t an easy path (except for Dartmouth, obviously, and whatever Brown turned into last year).

As for Cuse’s schedule this year, Albany will be good not great. Army and Navy lost a lot, as was noted. Nothing about Carolina impresses me. Notre Dame is overrated.

Can’t make up my mind about Virginia. They’ll probably average 16 goals per game and give up 15.

Rutgers at home certainly helps. Mellen needs to lock down Charalambides and Cuse needs to control possessions. Can see that as a 13-9 type victory.

Colgate is only a concern because you can’t prepare for a team with a new coach you haven’t seen.

The three biggest problems are Duke, Cornell and probably Hopkins. Good. Bring it.

I know that’s only 11, but I can’t for the life of me remember the 12th opponent.
Hobart.
 

NazLax30

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Hobart.
!

I feel good about that one too.

Last year’s 8-6 (regular season) team “should” have been 11-3. The inexperience showed against Navy, Army and Rutgers. If they hold on in those games, who knows what the tournament draw is. Maybe they get to the final four and we’re all riding high off that. That team returns plus Cook, Seebold and maybe some other new guys.

Dordevic hurts, but this team is more experienced than last year and Cuse teams always fight.
 

sholokov2

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Weren’t there a lot of complaints two years ago that the schedule wasn’t strong enough? On the laxpower board, I believe. Can’t have it both ways. Everyone is banging the National Championship or Bust drum. Well if Cuse is the best team this year, then who cares who they play? They should be able to beat anyone if they’re as good as everyone hopes they are.

If they can’t beat Rutgers or Navy in the regular season, they’re not beating Yale or Maryland in the national semifinals. Beating Bingo 21-4 or whatever it was last year did NOTHING to help them last year. If anything, they thought they were better than they were and then Albany kicked them in the teeth.

Dordevic is an important player, but he’s not Gary Gait. Cuse has depth and skill at the midfield. They have athletic attackmen who can run out of the box. They have coaches who are great at coaching lacrosse. Maybe you don’t like Desko’s administrative decisions, but he can coach a lacrosse game.

Let them play a game. Goodness.
I have been thinking the same thing, but you wrote it much better than I would have. Who cares who they play. Right. The season can be draining...? College sports are demanding. Kids play them because they are demanding. If you want a less demanding season, drop a few games, shorten the season, add a few off weeks, go to Cancun. And by the way, Duke schedules a couple patsies at the beginning of the season. Oh oh, High Point is in the process of beating them by four. I don't hear the Dukies asking for more easy games. And there aren't that many easy teams any more.

Dordevic is another of the all too frequent freshman or sophomore stars in the making who are severely injured in the freshman or soph years. Jojo, Conrad, no.22 a couple years ago, Garnsey, Mellen and several others I cannot remember all went down early. Usually knee or foot injuries. I might consider redshirting the best freshmen or playing them sparingly no matter how important they are to immediate success. Let them build musculature, joint strength, tendon and ligament elasticity and bone attachment tensile strength for the first year. A more gradual process might keep them on the field for four consecutive years.
 

OrangeXtreme

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I might consider redshirting the best freshmen or playing them sparingly no matter how important they are to immediate success. Let them build musculature, joint strength, tendon and ligament elasticity and bone attachment tensile strength for the first year. A more gradual process might keep them on the field for four consecutive years.
We redshirted Wisnauskas. We played Maltz sparingly.
 

DoctahLexus

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One thing that may help SU is that I expect Army and Navy to both be down this year. I know Army has what looks like another real good D but their offense struggled last year and they lost just about everyone who had a pulse on it to graduation. Navy lost a ton to graduation as well.
Army returns 4 of the top 6 on offense so I wouldn't say they are completely depleted there. 7 and 8 appear to be gone as well so hopefully that is enough depletion to make it easy on our defense. They also lose their FOGO who did pretty well against us. Navy returns 3 of their top 4 including the very impressive Greyson Torrain who dusted Melon from up top a couple times. But after that they lose a massive chunk of their depth, with 5 through 9 in points all graduating, including Joe Varello. Navy and Army also appear to lose a couple long sticks who played, but I'm not sure whether or not they were the keys to the defensive success. Those games should be easier, but not walks in the park. Our D should really be able to shut them down.
 

MD Cuse Fan

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I know have beaten this horse to pulp already this year but with Dordevic lost indefinitely if not for the year at this point the decision to only schedule 12 games and of those 12 play maybe 1 possibly 2 "cupcake" type teams seems ludicrious.

Yes I know Bingo was lost due to the idiotic change to the ACC tourney schedule but if you look at the other ACC teams each is playing 2 -3 extremely extremely winnable games. Where are those breathers on our schedule?

This issue goes back a few years ago when Desko decided to schedule tougher after getting stuck with an 8 seed after winning the ACC tourney because of our RIP. However, that year was an anomaly when multiple teams were down who normally are fairly good ie Cornell. Hopkins and Albany who was transitioning from the first year post the Thompsons. St. Johns and Bingo were god awful that year which also dragged down our numbers a bit. That being said imagine if SU was playing the 2016 schedule this year, would anyone really say we were playing a soft OOC? Having to play Duke, UNC, ND, UVA, Cornell, Albany and Johns Hopkins every year should be more then enough. One of Navy or Rutgers should have been re-scheduled to next year and SU should be playing a Siena or St. Bonnies or Canisius type in its place and kept Bingo on the schedule as a mid week game.

The schedule at this point is really overkill. Having the #1 SOS and a great RPI is nice but doesn't mean jack if were not eligible for the NCAA tourney or have to get in by the skin of our teeth like last year. Desko and the staff have to schedule better especially after seeing what happened last year with pretty much the same schedule. If we have to play an additional mid week game then so be it but we scheduled this year like were Yale and were definitely not. It's something Kramer or another one of the lax media guys needs to ask Desko about as I just don't get it.
I am assuming this is pure speculation regarding Dordevic possibly being lost indefinitely?
I do agree with you regarding the schedule. I enjoy getting some new faces on their such as Navy, who while not great is typically solid and the academies are never easy games. I also miss seeing Princeton and Georgetown on the schedule, even though those are no guaranteed wins. If nothing else this team will be plenty battle tested come May.
 

JeremyCuse

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Army returns 4 of the top 6 on offense so I wouldn't say they are completely depleted there. 7 and 8 appear to be gone as well so hopefully that is enough depletion to make it easy on our defense. They also lose their FOGO who did pretty well against us. Navy returns 3 of their top 4 including the very impressive Greyson Torrain who dusted Melon from up top a couple times. But after that they lose a massive chunk of their depth, with 5 through 9 in points all graduating, including Joe Varello. Navy and Army also appear to lose a couple long sticks who played, but I'm not sure whether or not they were the keys to the defensive success. Those games should be easier, but not walks in the park. Our D should really be able to shut them down.
Your right in that both teams certainly weren't devastated by graduation losses but both took a really big hit. I should have clarified my army point a little bit better in that their offense struggled much of last year to begin with and they lost some pretty important pieces off that team. They do bring back their leading scorer in Nate Jones at attack (Sr) (33 Pts) but besides him almost all of their offense was run through the midfield. The 2nd leading scorer Glancy is gone to graduation as is the third leading scorer David Symmes. Their 4th and 5th leading scorers are back but they only had 14 pts each and the entire staring midfield graduated as Ted Glesener who had 12 pts on the year graduated. I think Army brings back its entire starting attack but outside of Nate Jones there really isn't much there in my opinion at least and the one attackment who hurt us last year was the 4th guy who graduated. Certainly they will be very formidable from a defensive standpoint bringing back Seniors Barretto (G) and AA Johnny Surdick (D). However, they lost a few other D starters as you noted Dom Ricca Long pole, John Lamonica their LSM, Rango who faced off as you noted and played SSDM.

Navy as you pointed out does bring back Torain who is an excellent player but he has an injury history. It appears they lost 15 seniors on last years team including as you noted Varello, their top defender Strack, their second best defender Hiram carter both starting SSDM, attackmen Jack Ray, middie Casey Rees amongst others. Navy' strength is that Torain, Wade, and Daniel are a pretty nasty trio and they should carry them offensively. Defensively though they have major questions marks.



.
 

ivorytower

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That's a good O trio Navy has.

Greyson Torain may not have the most spectacular stats or be on any AA lists but he is one of the most talented mids we will face.

Respect
 

Powellfan

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This is a good conversation, and I think both Jeremy and Naz bring up good points. I would like an extra game thrown in, for the simple fact of I like seeing the Orange play lacrosse and that would give us an extra opportunity. I think coaches have gotten a little too careful trying to plan out their schedule so they don't have distractions for a particular game, but find it strange that teams wouldn't want to be in more games on short rest to prepare for championship weekend?

Hopefully the benefit of having this sort of schedule will lead to a fast start to the season. They have been practicing full field indoors for a couple weeks now so they should be in pretty good form to start the year. Yes Dordevic is a big loss, but the silver lining is that Lipka has gotten the chance to play on the first line all fall and early spring so he should have developed a decent chemistry with his running mates by now. The Einsley Center really leaves the team with few excuses.
 

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