Down from the Cloud Game Thoughts....

[newmexicuse]

1. Shooting can negate all else. we shot "lucky" 44% from treyland while they shot 21%.

2. Zion is beyond a load inside, I loved when we left him wide open at the trey line & dared him.

3. Absolutely tremendous W, but I am a bit less carried away because they did not have their # 1 defender and their #3 and #4 best overall players. If they have everybody healthy for a re-match they will be out for vengence.

4. Between the Buddy bank and the Elijah heave you had a felling at halftime that something special might happen. Six free points right there.

5. How did Dino miss out on Frank at linebacker ? Play was clean though. Speaking of Frank, this was the first time this season we got to see the Frank that we all know and love. Whether or not he has permanently turned the corner will be a huge factor in how successful the rest of the season will be.

6. A lot said about Chuk everywhere else in this thread. If he can battle Zion the way he did, there will be no excuses for any "no show" games the rest of the way. He proved he can play, he is now probably our biggest X factor the rest of the way. What was that thread about the 7'2' experiment being done ? I posted in that thread that Chuk would help at least sometimes the rest of the way. I do not understand posters here who simply write off players and consign them to the dumpster.

7. Very little said about Oshae, but he had a nice 14 & 8 game including 3 from 5 from distance. i still do not understand why he doesn't finish better on drives. Until he can get that done he will not be on anybody's draft list.

8. Elijah is our steady Eddie, he is just a perfect compliment for this team.

9. Ty was in insane attack mode. If he wants play at the next level, he can't take his foot off of that gas pedal. However, i gave Chuk my player of the game vote because I did not like ty settling for a trey attempt when he could have easily beaten his man for a driving deuce or perhaps gotten a foul call with the game on the line in regulation. Chuk's great OT play earned my player of the game vote.

10. Team showed we can run, where o where has that been all season. I will be beyond upset if Jimmy hasn't learned from this & we go back to slow mo offense.

11. D didn't look great overall as we gave up 91 and could not control Zion at all in the first half. chuk slowed him down a little bit in the 2nd half and in OT. However, we obviously defended Barrett well holding him to 4 of 17 from trey range and 8 of 30 overall. O'Connell picked up a lot of slack for them, but i am OK with taking #1 trey shooting option out of the game and letting somebody else beat us.

All in all, this is a massive signature win. It probably means if we get to 17 wins overall that we will be in.

 

[Newhouser]

Good post - my only quibble is item 7 - OB is becoming a guy who's numbers look good, but film does not. His inability to dribble and lack of desire to play thru contact and finish anything near the rim is hurting the team. IMHO

 

[tbonezone]

we got kicked in the teeth right out of the gate , got off the mat and fought back in. that says something.

 

[newmexicuse]

Good post - my only quibble is item 7 - OB is becoming a guy who's numbers look good, but film does not. His inability to dribble and lack of desire to play thru contact and finish anything near the rim is hurting the team. IMHO

I am not sure why, but it seemed like last season oshae would get to the line on a lot of those ineffective drives and this season he is not getting near as many calls.

 

[kuethstheman]

Hasn't JB been begging the team to play faster, all year?

 

[GonzoInMD]

I am not sure why, but it seemed like last season oshae would get to the line on a lot of those ineffective drives and this season he is not getting near as many calls.

And when he does get to the FT line, he's not making them as well as last year.

 

[kingtidge]

Hasn't JB been begging the team to play faster, all year?

JB's flat out said we aren't a running team...

That said, the running LN I think it was more a result of Duke dogging it in transition when the ball turned over...

Tyus saw it and exploited it continually by really getting out and running.

A lot of teams' defense won't be that lackadaisical in transition.

Not sure why they were so lackadaisical... maybe Jones sets their defensive rhythm... maybe they figured they'd clamp down on us down the stretch and were being a bit arrogant... maybe a little of both...

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Kind of hard to think 17 wins will get us in the NCAAT. That would be quite the late season slide, only winning 5 more games out of at least 15 left. But this team will easily win more than 6 remaining games.

Brings to light that we can clearly now stop calling this team a bubble team. We're IN!!!! (not a lock mind you but a clear Vegas odds on in type team, need to start talking seeds and location).

 

[kingtidge]

Kind of hard to think 17 wins will get us in the NCAAT. That would be quite the late season slide, only winning 5 more games out of at least 15 left. But this team will easily win more than 6 remaining games.

Brings to light that we can clearly now stop calling this team a bubble team. We're IN!!!! (not a lock mind you but a clear Vegas odds on in type team, need to start talking seeds and location).

This team can lose to anybody... and can clearly beat anybody.

Depends on which team shows up more often than not...

 

[hungrychuck]

This team can lose to anybody... and can clearly beat anybody.

Depends on which team shows up more often than not...

Yep. The season is still relatively young, but this is shaping up as one of the most schizo teams we've ever put out there.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

This team can lose to anybody... and can clearly beat anybody.

Depends on which team shows up more often than not...

C'mon, this team only needs 6 wins (NM was saying 5). Who really thinks they can't make that.

2 Pitt games, 2 x BC, Miami, Wake, Clemson. And if SU somehow has a lot of losses, they would get a fairly easy 1st round ACCT game. That's 8 winnable games right there.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

1. Shooting can negate all else. we shot "lucky" 44% from treyland while they shot 21%.

Yup.

Duke shot 21% from 3 against us and 46% vs Florida State.

We shot 21% from 3 vs GT while they shot 50% from 3.

Reverse those and we beat GT and lose to Duke.

11. D didn't look great overall as we gave up 91 and could not control Zion at all in the first half. chuk slowed him down a little bit in the 2nd half and in OT. However, we obviously defended Barrett well holding him to 4 of 17 from trey range and 8 of 30 overall. O'Connell picked up a lot of slack for them, but i am OK with taking #1 trey shooting option out of the game and letting somebody else beat us.

I disagree with parts of this. PC really did very little to slow Williamson down and I don't believe we pressed out on Barrett,

In the first half, we played something closer to our traditional 2-3 and Williamson was absolutely devastating as you correctly point out. 20 pts. 6-7 from 2 and 8-10 from the line. Our centers all had 3 fouls at halftime.

In the second half JB decided that the only way to win the game was to try and control Williamson and give up the 3s.

He did this by not pressing out on the ball and sagging the off guard back into the free-throw line to try and deny the entry pass and having everyone ready to collapse on Williamson when he did get the ball. Our 2-3 actually morphed into that dreaded tavern league 2-3 where one guy sort of guards the ball and the other four protect the paint.

Williamson was still highly effective when he did get the ball (5 of 8 from 2 in the second half vs 6 of 7 in the first half) but he saw the ball a lot less and, when he did, we didn't foul him (only 2 of 4 from the line in the 2nd vs 8 of 10 in the 1st). As a result, he also drifted out to the perimeter to see the ball as he took 4 of his 5 3s in the second half and OT vs only 1 in the first half.

Duke also took 29 of their 43 3s after halftime as that is the shot we were giving them.

I also don't believe that we pressed out on Barrett. Barrett shoots 32% from 3. White shoots 33% from 3. O'Connell shoots 38% from 3 and he is the shooter we pressed out on late in the game to try and deny the 3. We let White and Barrett shoot.

It was classic JB playing the percentages.

As a side note, this is also why, periodically, some guy who normally shoots 25% from 3 will have a career game or some no-name off the bench will have a career day against us.

Classic Belichick and classic JB. Make someone else beat you.

 

[LetsGoOrang]

No way we get into the tourney with 17 wins. Remember a few years ago when Gillon hit the 3 to beat Duke and everyone said that we were in the tourney? We were the 1st out! I think we need 20 wins to make the tourney and that includes at least one ACCT win. We need to win the rest of the games we are supposed to win (Wake, BC, Miami etc.) to guarantee anything.

 

[Owens guy]

9. Ty was in insane attack mode. If he wants play at the next level, he can't take his foot off of that gas pedal. However, i gave Chuk my player of the game vote because I did not like ty settling for a trey attempt when he could have easily beaten his man for a driving deuce or perhaps gotten a foul call with the game on the line in regulation. Chuk's great OT play earned my player of the game vote..

We need Battle in Beast Mode like he was against Duke every game. You could see the emotion on his face - he was so focused/determined/almost angry. A think the team sensed Battle's intensity and tried to match it. I have no problem with him taking 20-25 shots each game. There is nothing wrong with putting a team on your back and doing a John Wallace imitation. As we saw against Duke, he is capable of carrying and uplifting our team.

 

[Sherman20]

Yup.

Duke shot 21% from 3 against us and 46% vs Florida State.

We shot 21% from 3 vs GT while they shot 50% from 3.

Reverse those and we beat GT and lose to Duke.



I disagree with parts of this. PC really did very little to slow Williamson down and I don't believe we pressed out on Barrett,

In the first half, we played something closer to our traditional 2-3 and Williamson was absolutely devastating as you correctly point out. 20 pts. 6-7 from 2 and 8-10 from the line. Our centers all had 3 fouls at halftime.

In the second half JB decided that the only way to win the game was to try and control Williamson and give up the 3s.

He did this by not pressing out on the ball and sagging the off guard back into the free-throw line to try and deny the entry pass and having everyone ready to collapse on Williamson when he did get the ball. Our 2-3 actually morphed into that dreaded tavern league 2-3 where one guy sort of guards the ball and the other four protect the paint.

Williamson was still highly effective when he did get the ball (5 of 8 from 2 in the second half vs 6 of 7 in the first half) but he saw the ball a lot less and, when he did, we didn't foul him (only 2 of 4 from the line in the 2nd vs 8 of 10 in the 1st). As a result, he also drifted out to the perimeter to see the ball as he took 4 of his 5 3s in the second half and OT vs only 1 in the first half.

Duke also took 29 of their 43 3s after halftime as that is the shot we were giving them.

I also don't believe that we pressed out on Barrett. Barrett shoots 32% from 3. White shoots 33% from 3. O'Connell shoots 38% from 3 and he is the shooter we pressed out on late in the game to try and deny the 3. We let White and Barrett shoot.

It was classic JB playing the percentages.

As a side note, this is also why, periodically, some guy who normally shoots 25% from 3 will have a career game or some no-name off the bench will have a career day against us.

Classic Belichick and classic JB. Make someone else beat you.

This is exactly right—classic JB playing the percentages on D. i said this in another thread. We were trying to deny them getting the ball into the paint in the 2nd half and letting them shoot barely contested 3s, daring them to make some. And their players took the bait. Both Frank and Tyus were parked well behind the 3-pt line (instead of on or above it), trying to deny them from entering the paint too much. We really only contested oConnell, as you said, after he made one or two. It was a great strategy and really our best option to pull out the win. The basket starts looking smaller and smaller for shooters as time elapses and they keep missing 3s. Fortunately Barrett and White missed alot of them. I thought if we could keep within striking distance, we could rattle them and get them to miss a bunch of shots at the end and pull out the W.

JB also played the percentages on offense. He got the guys, especially Tyus and Frank, to exploit mismatches as Duke switches most of their screens. After Jones went out, Tyus went to school on O’connell, White and others. He broke that one dude’s ankle.

 

[otisco]

I am not sure why, but it seemed like last season oshae would get to the line on a lot of those ineffective drives and this season he is not getting near as many calls.

He is settling for jumpers this year instead of taking it hard to the rim like he did last year. It’s well known that he spent the summer with a shooting specialist attempting to improve his jumper for the next level. He’s not there yet. He’s not a good shooter. He’s so much better at taking it to the hole and drawing contact. Yes he’s not a great finisher, but he’d at least get to the stripe. He needs to move off the perimeter and get back down underneath for us.

 

[malpearl31]

He is settling for jumpers this year instead of taking it hard to the rim like he did last year. It’s well known that he spent the summer with a shooting specialist attempting to improve his jumper for the next level. He’s not there yet. He’s not a good shooter. He’s so much better at taking it to the hole and drawing contact. Yes he’s not a great finisher, but he’d at least get to the stripe. He needs to move off the perimeter and get back down underneath for us.

Oshae just seems to be lost out there at times - unsure of whether he should be outside or inside - he doesn't appear to be confident at all on the court right now. His FT Rate and his FT % are both down significantly from last year. It's almost as though he has so little confidence in his shooting stroke that he doesn't want to go to the FT line... so he sort of twists and contorts himself to avoid contact in the paint. Hope he figures it out soon, because we really need him if we have any hope of getting to where most of us thought this team could go this year. I'm not sure we'll win many more games where he shoots 2-for-11 from inside the arc with multiple point-blank misses and only two FT attempts.

 

[AlaskaSU]

We need Battle in Beast Mode like he was against Duke every game. You could see the emotion on his face - he was so focused/determined/almost angry. A think the team sensed Battle's intensity and tried to match it. I have no problem with him taking 20-25 shots each game. There is nothing wrong with putting a team on your back and doing a John Wallace imitation. As we saw against Duke, he is capable of carrying and uplifting our team.

Battle has to be in beast mode. In addition, Frank has to have turned the corner, and Chewy has to rebound. You cannot run without the ball. If those three things happen we're in. If not, we're not.

 

[Dinkyspond]

1. Shooting can negate all else. we shot "lucky" 44% from treyland while they shot 21%.

2. Zion is beyond a load inside, I loved when we left him wide open at the trey line & dared him.

3. Absolutely tremendous W, but I am a bit less carried away because they did not have their # 1 defender and their #3 and #4 best overall players. If they have everybody healthy for a re-match they will be out for vengence.

4. Between the Buddy bank and the Elijah heave you had a felling at halftime that something special might happen. Six free points right there.

5. How did Dino miss out on Frank at linebacker ? Play was clean though. Speaking of Frank, this was the first time this season we got to see the Frank that we all know and love. Whether or not he has permanently turned the corner will be a huge factor in how successful the rest of the season will be.

6. A lot said about Chuk everywhere else in this thread. If he can battle Zion the way he did, there will be no excuses for any "no show" games the rest of the way. He proved he can play, he is now probably our biggest X factor the rest of the way. What was that thread about the 7'2' experiment being done ? I posted in that thread that Chuk would help at least sometimes the rest of the way. I do not understand posters here who simply write off players and consign them to the dumpster.

7. Very little said about Oshae, but he had a nice 14 & 8 game including 3 from 5 from distance. i still do not understand why he doesn't finish better on drives. Until he can get that done he will not be on anybody's draft list.

8. Elijah is our steady Eddie, he is just a perfect compliment for this team.

9. Ty was in insane attack mode. If he wants play at the next level, he can't take his foot off of that gas pedal. However, i gave Chuk my player of the game vote because I did not like ty settling for a trey attempt when he could have easily beaten his man for a driving deuce or perhaps gotten a foul call with the game on the line in regulation. Chuk's great OT play earned my player of the game vote.

10. Team showed we can run, where o where has that been all season. I will be beyond upset if Jimmy hasn't learned from this & we go back to slow mo offense.

11. D didn't look great overall as we gave up 91 and could not control Zion at all in the first half. chuk slowed him down a little bit in the 2nd half and in OT. However, we obviously defended Barrett well holding him to 4 of 17 from trey range and 8 of 30 overall. O'Connell picked up a lot of slack for them, but i am OK with taking #1 trey shooting option out of the game and letting somebody else beat us.

All in all, this is a massive signature win. It probably means if we get to 17 wins overall that we will be in.

17 is not getting us in the NCAAs no way no how, that is 8-10 in ACC with bad losses to UConn and ODU and maybe GTech

 

[Newhouser]

C'mon, this team only needs 6 wins (NM was saying 5). Who really thinks they can't make that.

2 Pitt games, 2 x BC, Miami, Wake, Clemson. And if SU somehow has a lot of losses, they would get a fairly easy 1st round ACCT game. That's 8 winnable games right there.

I for one will be shocked if we sweep Pitt and BC and win at Clemson. Hope I"m wrong.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I for one will be shocked if we sweep Pitt and BC and win at Clemson. Hope I"m wrong.

I agree, but not as shocked as not winning 5 games. I think SU has 14 regular season (ACC) and one tourney game left - that's 15 games.

Those 8 games I listed were winnable games. I could easily also include games where SU will be slight underdogs but will probably take at least one - ie FSU, NC State, or Lville (even Duke at the Dome game has possibilities).

NM's thought that 17 games would now do it, brought home to me that this team should not be thought of as a bubble team at this point.

And I'll go one step further. SU is no longer a bubble team for the rest of JB's tenure!

 

[IthacaMatt]

we got kicked in the teeth right out of the gate , got off the mat and fought back in. that says something.

Yeah, I honestly thought I would not be watching the game for long, the way it started out. (I had a Chelsea game on DVR to switch to if things got out of hand ...)

The early calls were pretty bogus, right from the start with all the quick fouls on Frank. But once Jones went out hurt, I thought, let me give it some time and see what happens, and sure enough, we were right back in the game.

Turned out OK, I would say. ;-)

 

[Newhouser]

I agree, but not as shocked as not winning 5 games. I think SU has 14 regular season (ACC) and one tourney game left - that's 15 games.

Those 8 games I listed were winnable games. I could easily also include games where SU will be slight underdogs but will probably take at least one - ie FSU, NC State, or Lville (even Duke at the Dome game has possibilities).

NM's thought that 17 games would now do it, brought home to me that this team should not be thought of as a bubble team at this point.

And I'll go one step further. SU is no longer a bubble team for the rest of JB's tenure!

I agree except for the last line - if we lose Saturday we are back in bubbleville.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I agree except for the last line - if we lose Saturday we are back in bubbleville.

But we shouldn't lose. And if Frank is really back - providing 10-14/ppg's. This team looks like the dangerous team we were all hoping would be on the floor all season. 4.5 scoring threats on the floor, good Zone D size, a lot of experience, and developing depth.

Since Bubble talk is not official until 2/3 of the season is done, there is the distinct possibility that this still won't be a bubble year. Win 3 of the next 5 (extremely doable) and the talk is about the seed implications for winning the FSU game.

 

[CorduroyG]

We need Battle in Beast Mode like he was against Duke every game. You could see the emotion on his face - he was so focused/determined/almost angry. A think the team sensed Battle's intensity and tried to match it. I have no problem with him taking 20-25 shots each game. There is nothing wrong with putting a team on your back and doing a John Wallace imitation. As we saw against Duke, he is capable of carrying and uplifting our team.

this. i want battle in alpha mode the rest of the year.