End of Houston at Temple is all that's wrong with college bball | Syracusefan.com

End of Houston at Temple is all that's wrong with college bball

STEVEHOLT

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So technically, by the letter of the law..it's probably a charge...the guy is like two inches in front of the useless, under the basket anyway arc. however, the ref didnt even need to make any call here. there was no advantage either way...the guy who drew the charge wasn't even trying to challenge the shot...he was just looking to flop...and guy got the shot off before he ran into him anyway. i hate how we reward dudes for getting run into...move the arc out to a reasonable distance..and just stop calling bs. this game should have been tied.

WATCH: Houston loses undefeated record on charge foul
 
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Brooky03

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I thought it was a good call. The defender had established position before the ball handler gathered for the layup. If the contact was slight I'd say let it go, but the offensive player ran into the defender pretty hard. If the defender makes a block attempt there, that's a shooting foul 90% of the time.

I thought the refs got it right.
 

STEVEHOLT

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I thought it was a good call. The defender had established position before the ball handler gathered for the layup. If the contact was slight I'd say let it go, but the offensive player ran into the defender pretty hard. If the defender makes a block attempt there, that's a shooting foul 90% of the time.

I thought the refs got it right.

it is technically the correct call. which is what is wrong with college basketball.
 

DBCooper

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It was a good call. Obvious charge - not even close to a flop. Houston player should not be rewarded for playing out of control. The defender stepping up to take the charge left TWO players open under the basket. Houston player could have passed, pulled up for an 8 footer, or drove around the defender. He chose to plow through him. And he didn't release the shot until after he ran into him.
 

CaptainJ

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SteveHolt, I haven't seen the play, but I think your posting took a slight dip when you changed your avatar. Bring it back!
 
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cspades99

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I'm pretty shocked with the number of "good call" posts. I mean, sure, by letter of the college law, its a charge. But the rule is stupid. In real time, there is literally nothing that guy can do driving like that coming off a screen. That's not out of control basketball. That was even less obvious of a call than our most meme'd charge in recent history.
 

NateW

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To me, it looked like he was gathering and lifting in the air simultaneously prior to the guy establishing position. Not a charge.

But hey - calling a charge is more fun for the ref, and that’s what really matters out there.
 

sutomcat

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IMHO, this is not a charge. The defender had position and was outside the charge circle. No issues there. My problem with the call is that the player with the ball saw the defender, swerved to avoid him, and barely grazed him.

And then there is the end of the game, don't let it be decided by a call factor. Not sure if refs are told to swallow their whistles in last possession situations, unless there is an egregious foul, but it happens more often than not.

A soft brush of one arm should not constitute a charge. The player with the ball was in control. He clearly went around the defender instead of into him.

Defenders should not be rewarded for camping out under the basket and doing bad acting to overcome the fact that they were barely touched.

I don't know what the rule says but if this really should be called a charge, the rule needs to be changed. Again.

How many times do we have to change the rules before refs stop calling contact like this a charge? These kinds of calls are bad for the game. They make it almost impossible for players to drive into the paint. I watch basketball games to see great athletes driving into the paint and do amazing things. I don't want to see teams pass the ball around the perimeter and take contested jumpers all game long.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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I thought it was a good call. The defender had established position before the ball handler gathered for the layup. If the contact was slight I'd say let it go, but the offensive player ran into the defender pretty hard. If the defender makes a block attempt there, that's a shooting foul 90% of the time.

I thought the refs got it right.
I don't think standing still is defense, and if you are not playing defense, it should be a defensive foul.
 

DBCooper

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IMHO, this is not a charge. The defender had position and was outside the charge circle. No issues there. My problem with the call is that the player with the ball saw the defender, swerved to avoid him, and barely grazed him.

And then there is the end of the game, don't let it be decided by a call factor. Not sure if refs are told to swallow their whistles in last possession situations, unless there is an egregious foul, but it happens more often than not.

A soft brush of one arm should not constitute a charge. The player with the ball was in control. He clearly went around the defender instead of into him.

Defenders should not be rewarded for camping out under the basket and doing bad acting to overcome the fact that they were barely touched.

I don't know what the rule says but if this really should be called a charge, the rule needs to be changed. Again.

How many times do we have to change the rules before refs stop calling contact like this a charge? These kinds of calls are bad for the game. They make it almost impossible for players to drive into the paint. I watch basketball games to see great athletes driving into the paint and do amazing things. I don't want to see teams pass the ball around the perimeter and take contested jumpers all game long.

If it was just a soft brush on the arm, I stand corrected. I didn't see the game, and it didn't look like a flop in the video posted.
 

DBCooper

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I don't think standing still is defense, and if you are not playing defense, it should be a defensive foul.

So, if two players have someone trapped in a corner, and one of the defenders is just standing there with his arms up, the offensive player can plow through him, and it's a defensive foul?
 

UnknownOrange

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Probably the technical call, sure.

But setting up to take a charge is the worst WORSTTTTTTT. "Here comes the offensive player coming down the lane, I am going to stand here and get run over!!!!"

BAN IT. SEND THE RULE INTO THE SUN.



(offensive fouls can still happen but please just give us a little leniency on guys both going up to make a play)
 

STEVEHOLT

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To be clear...I wanted a play on.. I didnt want them to call it a block either. Houston set up a nice play and should have been rewarded..they ran a similar set just prior and the player coming off the screen hit a three..Temple was cheating out on a three..and were fooled when he turned to the hoop...dude then just stands under the basket , does nothing..and is rewarded for being in the area.

whats to stop a team from taking all five defenders and just forming a semicircle outside the arc? then by definition there could be nothing but jump shots.
 

sutomcat

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To be clear...I wanted a play on.. I didnt want them to call it a block either. Houston set up a nice play and should have been rewarded..they ran a similar set just prior and the player coming off the screen hit a three..Temple was cheating out on a three..and were fooled when he turned to the hoop...dude then just stands under the basket , does nothing..and is rewarded for being in the area.

whats to stop a team from taking all five defenders and just forming a semicircle outside the arc? then by definition there could be nothing but jump shots.
I agree with this. Incidental contact. No call. That is how it should have been called.
 

Bayside44

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One day some guy will get his bell rung bad because he was taught to stand defenseless and get run over. A guy should reasonably be able to make a defensive play and still get a charge call, and that part is being stripped from the game, to the point of even rec and pickup ball. It's shameful.
 

Tom K.

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I won't make a judgement on this call but I despise the charge call. I hate players being rewarded for just running to a spot and basically saying "I was here first!". It's good defense because the rule exists, but it's not good defense. Good rim protectors can alter and block shots just with their presence and are good at not fouling. That's good defense.

In the cases where a charge/block used to be called, I don't know, how about play on? Leave offensive fouls in place for cases of the player pushing off. Otherwise dust yourself off and play on. You ran into each other.
 

Cheriehoop

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Watching it , the guy run over was only standing still there because the Temple big guy he was defending planted himself inside the lane under the basket the entire time. They probably should have lost on a 3 second call before the shot instead.

The charge/block part looks worse because the defense was playing man to man and supposedly playing their ‘man’ not an area. The guard easily beat his man (multiple men) and could have used that nice screen to take a short open jumper. However he decided to keep going for a contested layup and not take the jumper which put it in the refs hands.
 

Rage4CUSE

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I won't make a judgement on this call but I despise the charge call. I hate players being rewarded for just running to a spot and basically saying "I was here first!". It's good defense because the rule exists, but it's not good defense. Good rim protectors can alter and block shots just with their presence and are good at not fouling. That's good defense.

In the cases where a charge/block used to be called, I don't know, how about play on? Leave offensive fouls in place for cases of the player pushing off. Otherwise dust yourself off and play on. You ran into each other.
Right. But you realize that's your opinion. And other people have the opinion that it is good defense getting to a spot first.
 

Rage4CUSE

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Watching it , the guy run over was only standing still there because the Temple big guy he was defending planted himself inside the lane under the basket the entire time. They probably should have lost on a 3 second call before the shot instead.
Also anybody who says he barely grazed his arm either needs to rewatch the video. Or get new prescription for their glasses.
 

cuseincincy

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Didn't see the game, have only seen the replay posted above. In that replay it looks to me that the Temple player had 2 tent spikes in the ground by the time the offensive player contacted him. What is the defensive player supposed to do? If he plays any defense on that drive its a foul on him unless he goes up vertically and is allowed to "hold his position" in mid air which is allowed in the rules but refs never ever allow it. And I agree that the Houston player was not out of control. He very purposely and under control chose to go where he did.
Which brings me to the important point...I haven't seen one but if Tomcat is correct and the contact was onpy glancing brush by then absolutely there should have been no call. I think the ref started to blow his whistle as soon as he saw the Temple player set up and at that point he was going to blow his whistle no matter what happened.
 

Tom K.

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Right. But you realize that's your opinion. And other people have the opinion that it is good defense getting to a spot first.

Did you pick my post at random? You can reply that to half the posts in this thread. Of course it's opinion.
 

orangecuse

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Didn't see it, but these calls are goofy at times. Last night there was a charge called against Sidibe (2nd half) in which he appeared to have made a nice fake/move to the hoop against his defender (I believe #25 for Clemson) where there was minimal contact and the guy clearly flopped and got the charge call. JB on the sidelines was just laughing at the ref, telling him (clear by his lips) "it was a flop." Just a bogus call.

I wonder what would've been the reaction if it was at game's end, and a tie game? These are the calls that have to go and should just be a play on...
 

AlexDaCuse

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Go to about the 39:20 mark. I'm with the OP, block and one. Sorry about having to have that idiot Bayless to the right of video too.
 

HyattsCuse

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Looks like a classic no call situation after only seeing the linked clip a couple times. Temple guy was camped there in plenty of time but Houston guy appeared to go around him and the Temple guy flopped once he felt a little contact IMO.
 

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