ESPN-ACC GOR: Time was Running Out

[arbitragegls]

Well now that we all are pleased with the GOR signing by the teams of the ACC; it should be noted that the B1G was not and is not stopping its expansion move. As we discussed on the board in several different threads the ACC began protecting itself back in Third QTR. last year. It was a necessity ( see new link to article below via CBSSPORTS) and a good defensive/aggressive plan by Swofford and the ACC to protect what was in many minds the very best overall conference in the USA: academics, all sports including Olympic, geographic footprint, and demographics of its footprint:
1. Brought in Notre Dame as an associate member--and just to repeat from previous threads--ACC was not the only conference to offer Notre Dame the deal
2. November article with Swarbrick and Swofford indicating that the ACC from a TV dollar perspective would be "in the ball park" of other conferences--in fact Swarbrick indicated dollars would be greater than other TOP 5 conference(s)
3. Uncovering of the ACC Network that is soon to be announced--more later
4. Loss of Maryland but a very fast turn-around bringing in Louisville--remember the threads on the 4x4x4 realignment planning/strategy group that the ACC constructed prior to 'Cuse/Pitt being invited to the ACC...this committee is still up and running and continuously updates its "what ifs" and "what to execute" based on college landscape and opportunities that the ACC should pursue
--happened so quickly without negative publicity based on 4x4x4 recommendation to ACC Conference--members of 4x4 included 4 presidents, 4 AD's, and 4 athletic department faculty representative
--this committee has its "bag" of recommendations ready to go for just about anything that is going to come up relative to expansion and TV contracts etc

So why was this all revved up in the 3rd Qtr. last year...and even earlier...the link below published last night is a good read. It is evident that the B1G was hunting long before most knew publicly that they were hunting universities in the BE, ACC, SEC, and to a degree the Big 12.

There is more to this insofar as what was transpiring...and some even had the universities targeted but did not have all the facts...majority of universities were not moving at least in the ACC because they had been taken step by step as to what the ACC was undertaking...award of STEALTH COMMISSIONER truly goes to Swofford:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...eriously-with-several-schools-about-expansion

It is good to be 'Cuse!!!!

 

[CuseLegacy]

I remembered this discussion regarding the lawsuit..

Alsacs said: ↑

Arb, Maryland will move the case out of North Carolina District Court to Federal Court under Diversity Jurisdiction, and have Federal Judges who aren't elected by the people of NC like District Court decide this case. However, the crux of the case will come down whether the 50 million dollar exit fee is punitive or if the ACC can prove the bylaw is a liquidated damages provision. I think the case will be settled and for undisclosed amount of money that will be closer to 50 million than 15 million. The ACC doesn't want the facts to become public and a trial would be horrible for Swofford as he would be a witness to testify and the MD lawyers would really destroy him on the stand. I am sure he is going to be deposed and the deposition won't be pretty.​

Alsacs, I agree, a Swofford Deposition will be ugly. I also think that depositions of Maryland personnel, and posibly B1G personnel will be at least as ugly. If there is anything that implies some communication between Maryland and the B1G it will be exploited.

I agree, netither side will want full disclosure on this because it will be so ugly. ​

HtownOrange, Feb 18, 2013 Report


In the article there is an acknowledgement that confidentiality agreements were signed by MD and the Big. Will this affect the lawsuit?

 

[arbitragegls]

I remembered this discussion regarding the lawsuit..

Alsacs said: ↑ ​

Arb, Maryland will move the case out of North Carolina District Court to Federal Court under Diversity Jurisdiction, and have Federal Judges who aren't elected by the people of NC like District Court decide this case. However, the crux of the case will come down whether the 50 million dollar exit fee is punitive or if the ACC can prove the bylaw is a liquidated damages provision. I think the case will be settled and for undisclosed amount of money that will be closer to 50 million than 15 million. The ACC doesn't want the facts to become public and a trial would be horrible for Swofford as he would be a witness to testify and the MD lawyers would really destroy him on the stand. I am sure he is going to be deposed and the deposition won't be pretty.​

Alsacs, I agree, a Swofford Deposition will be ugly. I also think that depositions of Maryland personnel, and posibly B1G personnel will be at least as ugly. If there is anything that implies some communication between Maryland and the B1G it will be exploited.

​

I agree, netither side will want full disclosure on this because it will be so ugly. ​

HtownOrange, Feb 18, 2013 Report


In the article there is an acknowledgement that confidentiality agreements were signed by MD and the Big. Will this affect the lawsuit?

Yes (what weight is given to this will be interesting)...for example:

• when did Maryland sign the confidentiality letter...
• was it signed prior to vote on new exit fee...
• did Maryland "play" the ACC while it secretly negotiated...etc.
• did Maryland confidentiality agreement go against proper business regulations in state of Maryland...did it in any way break ACC by-laws.

 

[Pyle]

"John Swofford dropped a suplex on realignment" - I love this line.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Question for the attorneys out there.

Why was the attempted poaching being done on the sly by James Delany not tortious intereference? Or did he just expect to wrap things up so swiftly and decisively thanks to his required non-disclosure requirement with targeted institutions that he felt the risk of a lawsuit a la Baylor/Ken Starr was worth it?

 

[Alsacs]

Question for the attorneys out there.

Why was the attempted poaching being done on the sly by James Delany not tortious intereference? Or did he just expect to wrap things up so swiftly and decisively thanks to his required non-disclosure requirement with targeted institutions that he felt the risk of a lawsuit a la Baylor/Ken Starr was worth it?

Maryland signed the confidentiality agreement while they were still in the ACC and the B1G didn't want Maryland leaking their move to the B1G before ALL the I's were dotted and T's were crossed. The B1G was protecting themselves from Maryland leaking and then the ACC making the B1G a potential co-defendant in litigation if the ACC decided to do so. Conferences are partnerships, and LLCs teams can withdraw all they want from conferences as long as they follow the bylaws for withdrawal. Maryland still hasn't technically withdrawn from the ACC for litigation purposes, but they are gone and to withdraw from the ACC before the GOR you must give 12 months notice and pay three times the annual payout from television revenue which comes out to 52 million dollars approximately. Jim Delany didn't tortious interfere if he can prove (which I am 99% he will) that Maryland initiated contact with the B1G. Obviously, it takes two to tango, but my bet is the B1G contacted a Maryland BOT and threw back channels initiated discussions. Once Maryland made the B1G aware they were interested, then the B1G is free of any tortious interference claims. Also, for any tortious interference claim to be successful in court you must prove damages. Well, maybe if ESPN didn't INCREASE the ACC per year payout the ACC could make a claim, but now they can't. If Maryland wants to leave then can, but they are going to have to negotiate a settlement of the ACC bylaws.

This case is going to remain in NC, and now that the ACC has a GOR Swafford has 2 options. 1. Settle the case and be done with Maryland, or 2. Decide since we are protected let's grind Maryland/B1G as much as we can try to get all 52 million and not worry about depositions because the conference is safe.

Edit: Delany was sly because if the Maryland left the ACC, then North Carolina/Georgia Tech/Virginia soon followed and the ACC had its contract reduced by ESPN, and all this happened because of a Maryland leak before joined the B1G then the conference/Maryland could be liable for tortious interference.

 

[GoSU96]

Question for the attorneys out there.

Why was the attempted poaching being done on the sly by James Delany not tortious intereference? Or did he just expect to wrap things up so swiftly and decisively thanks to his required non-disclosure requirement with targeted institutions that he felt the risk of a lawsuit a la Baylor/Ken Starr was worth it?

NDA's don't shield you in court if that is what you are asking.

 

[Alsacs]

I might add the Baylor lawsuit would have been for their projected cut of the Big XII contract they would stand to lose if the Big XII blew up a couple of years ago. The Big XII is paying out 25 million dollars approximately each year per school. If Baylor went from the Big XII making 25 million a year to the AAC making 3 million a year they could claim tortious interference from the SEC poaching Texas A&M and this poaching has irrevocably harmed Baylor University and thus the SEC/Texas A&M should be liable for the tortious interference they caused Baylor University in lost revenue. Once Fox/ESPN told the Big XII find 10 schools and we will still pay the 25 million per year in money and Texas/Oklahoma didn't go to the Pac-12 and West Virginia became Big XII 10th team Baylor didn't have a claim against Texas A&M/SEC and the Aggies were allowed to go without the threat of a lawsuit.

I hope this clarifies.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Yes, thanks for the explanation. No doubt the ACC won't lose much, if anything at all, from Maryland's move to the Rust Belt while Baylor was facing some real potential harm. I have no doubt that Delany was skating on thin ice legally in initiating contact with certain Maryland officials and BOT members but I also have little doubt that the SOB covered his tracks well.

 

[Alsacs]

Biggest take away from that article now that I re-read it was this.
Commissioner Jim Delany told CBSSports.com that his league entered confidentiality agreements with possibly six or more schools to protect conversations about conference membership.

Who are these 6 teams?
Nebraska
Rutgers
Maryland
are 3 for sure
North Carolina
Virginia
Georgia Tech
Those are what they want us to believe, but something tells me Georgia Tech was always smoke screen to push North Carolina/Virginia I don't know if the 6th team was Missouri or my dark horse Duke. Delany's a North Carolina alum he has to know Duke-North Carolina must play twice a year in basketball for their basketball season ticket-holders I think UNC was only an option in a B1G with Duke, Maryland, Virginia along with them, and I doubt the B1G was ready for 18 teams yet.

 

[Scooch]

I'm no lawyer, but isn't it odd for public institutions, such as state universities, to be entering into secret negotiations that have such dramatic financial implications? Are there not laws that preclude that sort of thing, since taxpayer money is almost certainly involved?

 

[Lou_C]

Biggest take away from that article now that I re-read it was this.
Commissioner Jim Delany told CBSSports.com that his league entered confidentiality agreements with possibly six or more schools to protect conversations about conference membership.

Who are these 6 teams?
Nebraska
Rutgers
Maryland
are 3 for sure
North Carolina
Virginia
Georgia Tech
Those are what they want us to believe, but something tells me Georgia Tech was always smoke screen to push North Carolina/Virginia I don't know if the 6th team was Missouri or my dark horse Duke. Delany's a North Carolina alum he has to know Duke-North Carolina must play twice a year in basketball for their basketball season ticket-holders I think UNC was only an option in a B1G with Duke, Maryland, Virginia along with them, and I doubt the B1G was ready for 18 teams yet.

Some fairly credible FSU folks say FSU would be on the list. They were supposedly talking.

While I think a case can be made for the B1G taking FSU as part of the right package of schools, it is my belief that the B1G was trying to "Missouri" Florida State. String them along, in hopes that they say or do something stupid to destabilize the ACC. At which time the B1G takes UVA and UNC and tells FSU thanks but no thanks.

It worked like a charm for the B1G in getting Nebraska, I think it's very possible that talks with FSU had the same goal.

At some point I think FSU's president Barron called the bluff, didn't get a B1G invite, and prioritized stabilizing the ACC. With the only other option the Big 12, that was the right move I think.

A lot of FSU folks are disappointed that we're not going to be in the SEC or B1G anytime soon (but most are on board I think, at least cautiously). But those conferences had two freaking years to invite FSU, and if they were going to they would have. Time to move on. I have been critical of the ACC, but just as critical of FSU for their part in ACC problems. Not just on the field, if these issues are so important to FSU the last two years, where was FSU on these issues ten years ago? A lot of us saw this coming a long time ago. Fans can't complain about Tobacco Road Mafia when their own administration does nothing but go along.

So at some point, the best play is to commit to the best opportunity you have and go to work improving and fixing the ACC. A lot of that has actually been happening already, and I think the future is fairly bright. I really think for the first time you have all schools on the same page with the same goals.

 

[Lou_C]

Well now that we all are pleased with the GOR signing by the teams of the ACC; it should be noted that the B1G was not and is not stopping its expansion move. As we discussed on the board in several different threads the ACC began protecting itself back in Third QTR. last year. It was a necessity ( see new link to article below via CBSSPORTS) and a good defensive/aggressive plan by Swofford and the ACC to protect what was in many minds the very best overall conference in the USA: academics, all sports including Olympic, geographic footprint, and demographics of its footprint:
1. Brought in Notre Dame as an associate member--and just to repeat from previous threads--ACC was not the only conference to offer Notre Dame the deal
2. November article with Swarbrick and Swofford indicating that the ACC from a TV dollar perspective would be "in the ball park" of other conferences--in fact Swarbrick indicated dollars would be greater than other TOP 5 conference(s)
3. Uncovering of the ACC Network that is soon to be announced--more later
4. Loss of Maryland but a very fast turn-around bringing in Louisville--remember the threads on the 4x4x4 realignment planning/strategy group that the ACC constructed prior to 'Cuse/Pitt being invited to the ACC...this committee is still up and running and continuously updates its "what ifs" and "what to execute" based on college landscape and opportunities that the ACC should pursue
--happened so quickly without negative publicity based on 4x4x4 recommendation to ACC Conference--members of 4x4 included 4 presidents, 4 AD's, and 4 athletic department faculty representative
--this committee has its "bag" of recommendations ready to go for just about anything that is going to come up relative to expansion and TV contracts etc

So why was this all revved up in the 3rd Qtr. last year...and even earlier...the link below published last night is a good read. It is evident that the B1G was hunting long before most knew publicly that they were hunting universities in the BE, ACC, SEC, and to a degree the Big 12.

There is more to this insofar as what was transpiring...and some even had the universities targeted but did not have all the facts...majority of universities were not moving at least in the ACC because they had been taken step by step as to what the ACC was undertaking...award of STEALTH COMMISSIONER truly goes to Swofford:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...eriously-with-several-schools-about-expansion

It is good to be 'Cuse!!!!

Arb, I'm pretty new to this board (not the reallignment issue). Can you elaborate on the 4x4x4 committee? Interested to know more about that.

 

[Btstimpy]

Well now that we all are pleased with the GOR signing by the teams of the ACC; it should be noted that the B1G was not and is not stopping its expansion move. As we discussed on the board in several different threads the ACC began protecting itself back in Third QTR. last year. It was a necessity ( see new link to article below via CBSSPORTS) and a good defensive/aggressive plan by Swofford and the ACC to protect what was in many minds the very best overall conference in the USA: academics, all sports including Olympic, geographic footprint, and demographics of its footprint:
1. Brought in Notre Dame as an associate member--and just to repeat from previous threads--ACC was not the only conference to offer Notre Dame the deal
2. November article with Swarbrick and Swofford indicating that the ACC from a TV dollar perspective would be "in the ball park" of other conferences--in fact Swarbrick indicated dollars would be greater than other TOP 5 conference(s)
3. Uncovering of the ACC Network that is soon to be announced--more later
4. Loss of Maryland but a very fast turn-around bringing in Louisville--remember the threads on the 4x4x4 realignment planning/strategy group that the ACC constructed prior to 'Cuse/Pitt being invited to the ACC...this committee is still up and running and continuously updates its "what ifs" and "what to execute" based on college landscape and opportunities that the ACC should pursue
--happened so quickly without negative publicity based on 4x4x4 recommendation to ACC Conference--members of 4x4 included 4 presidents, 4 AD's, and 4 athletic department faculty representative
--this committee has its "bag" of recommendations ready to go for just about anything that is going to come up relative to expansion and TV contracts etc

So why was this all revved up in the 3rd Qtr. last year...and even earlier...the link below published last night is a good read. It is evident that the B1G was hunting long before most knew publicly that they were hunting universities in the BE, ACC, SEC, and to a degree the Big 12.

There is more to this insofar as what was transpiring...and some even had the universities targeted but did not have all the facts...majority of universities were not moving at least in the ACC because they had been taken step by step as to what the ACC was undertaking...award of STEALTH COMMISSIONER truly goes to Swofford:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...eriously-with-several-schools-about-expansion

It is good to be 'Cuse!!!!

I just hope that the new ACC Network will take off and be a successful if not more than the BTN. Then with the right hire by Penn State for their new President, the ACC can go add Penn State. That would be the perfect ending to this drama.

It's pretty common knowledge that Notre Dame had the same offer from the Big XII that they signed up with the ACC for. DeLoss Dodds of Texas was publicly promoting it. It would be interesting to know if the Big Ten actually made Notre Dame the same offer.

I'm still of the opinion that the future is very bright for the ACC given where it is located geographically and the collection of talents that it includes across the spectrum of college sports and diversity of schools. We have both the south for football and the east for basketball with representation in Indiana and Kentucky that like basketball too. We have the south for baseball and the north for lacrosse. This ACC network can become great.

 

[Alsacs]

Some fairly credible FSU folks say FSU would be on the list. They were supposedly talking.

While I think a case can be made for the B1G taking FSU as part of the right package of schools, it is my belief that the B1G was trying to "Missouri" Florida State. String them along, in hopes that they say or do something stupid to destabilize the ACC. At which time the B1G takes UVA and UNC and tells FSU thanks but no thanks.

It worked like a charm for the B1G in getting Nebraska, I think it's very possible that talks with FSU had the same goal.

At some point I think FSU's president Barron called the bluff, didn't get a B1G invite, and prioritized stabilizing the ACC. With the only other option the Big 12, that was the right move I think.

A lot of FSU folks are disappointed that we're not going to be in the SEC or B1G anytime soon (but most are on board I think, at least cautiously). But those conferences had two freaking years to invite FSU, and if they were going to they would have. Time to move on. I have been critical of the ACC, but just as critical of FSU for their part in ACC problems. Not just on the field, if these issues are so important to FSU the last two years, where was FSU on these issues ten years ago? A lot of us saw this coming a long time ago. Fans can't complain about Tobacco Road Mafia when their own administration does nothing but go along.

So at some point, the best play is to commit to the best opportunity you have and go to work improving and fixing the ACC. A lot of that has actually been happening already, and I think the future is fairly bright. I really think for the first time you have all schools on the same page with the same goals.

I think most FSU fans realized the SEC was a pipe dream as Florida wasn't going to be forced by the state administrators a la Virginia with Virginia Tech to invite FSU into the SEC. On the B1G front I think FSU would go if offered, but I agree all that was a smokescreen by the B1G as you stated.

The B1G/SEC both want North Carolina if they are available as they are the crown jewel of the ACC due to the fact they OWN the NC market, are the flagship university, are a top 10 brand in college merchandize sales nationwide, and would automatically cause the cable channel of the SEC or B1G be on NC basic tier with fear of revolt from their fanbase if their games weren't available.(Also, NC is the fastest growing state IMO, as the Texas growth from the last census was mainly due to Hurricane Katrina relocaters.)

The difference between Missouri and Florida State was this I don't think the B1G realized Nebraska was available before they poked the bear. The B1G realized that whomever the 12th team was they would pay for their own inclusion due to the conference championship game. Missouri brought the St. Louis, Kansas City TV markets for the BTN, but only brought 3 star football and 4 star basketball. When 5 star football/2 star basketball Nebraska realized Texas A&M was unhappy and Texas always had the Pac-10 in its back pocket they smartly went ahead and started a public feud with Texas over its Longhorn network. Nebraska ALWAYS benefited from the Big 12 unequal revenue sharing along with Texas. Oklahoma, Texas A&M, and Kansas. However, they realized that Missouri was flirting with a spot that they were obviously better off taking and blaming their departure on Texas and the fact the Big XII never protected their Big 8 rivalry with Oklahoma. Nebraska realized that the stability of the B1G was better than dealing with the ego of Texas, but they along with Oklahoma always had significant influence in the room with Texas they just didn't have Texas Tech, Baylor, Iowa State's futures dependent on keeping Nebraska happy like they did with Texas. So, Nebraska took off and sniped Missouri's spot. Basically what Nebraska did to Texas was what Shaq O'Neal did with Kobe Bryant when he got traded from the Lakers. He went public and started lobbying bombs at Kobe/Texas and got public support for their departures and got all the blame put on the other party Kobe/Texas.

With Florida State I don't think North Carolina was ever threatened by the talk of them going to the B1G because if they were the 15th team who would have been 16? UConn or Georgia Tech? If Ga. Tech and Florida State went to the B1G then Virginia and North Carolina could call Mike Slive today and be extended invitations to the SEC.

The biggest mistake the B1G made was not getting 2 ACC schools and instead taking Rutgers along with Maryland. What this showed was the ACC wasn't as vulnerable as we were led to believe by the butthurt dumba$$es from WVU, and gives credance to the fact that Maryland left because NC St AD Debbie Yow left their AD program in so much red they had to wh*re themselves out to the B1G to keeps its AD afloat. The ACC can blame Maryland's departure on Debbie Yow. North Carolina KNEW it could live without Maryland. Taking Maryland hurt the ACC, but didn't wound it as honestly Louisville has better football and basketball in the past decade and has reason to believe it can be sustained. Florida State to the B1G wouldn't have harmed North Carolina one bit either as they knew the SEC/B1G BOTH want them, and honestly I don't know which the school/fanbase prefers over the other.

 

[Lou_C]

I think most FSU fans realized the SEC was a pipe dream as Florida wasn't going to be forced by the state administrators a la Virginia with Virginia Tech to invite FSU into the SEC. On the B1G front I think FSU would go if offered, but I agree all that was a smokescreen by the B1G as you stated.

The B1G/SEC both want North Carolina if they are available as they are the crown jewel of the ACC due to the fact they OWN the NC market, are the flagship university, are a top 10 brand in college merchandize sales nationwide, and would automatically cause the cable channel of the SEC or B1G be on NC basic tier with fear of revolt from their fanbase if their games weren't available.(Also, NC is the fastest growing state IMO, as the Texas growth from the last census was mainly due to Hurricane Katrina relocaters.)

The difference between Missouri and Florida State was this I don't think the B1G realized Nebraska was available before they poked the bear. The B1G realized that whomever the 12th team was they would pay for their own inclusion due to the conference championship game. Missouri brought the St. Louis, Kansas City TV markets for the BTN, but only brought 3 star football and 4 star basketball. When 5 star football/2 star basketball Nebraska realized Texas A&M was unhappy and Texas always had the Pac-10 in its back pocket they smartly went ahead and started a public feud with Texas over its Longhorn network. Nebraska ALWAYS benefited from the Big 12 unequal revenue sharing along with Texas. Oklahoma, Texas A&M, and Kansas. However, they realized that Missouri was flirting with a spot that they were obviously better off taking and blaming their departure on Texas and the fact the Big XII never protected their Big 8 rivalry with Oklahoma. Nebraska realized that the stability of the B1G was better than dealing with the ego of Texas, but they are Oklahoma always had significant influence in the room they just didn't have Texas Tech, Baylor, Iowa State's future dependent on keeping Nebraska happy like they did with Texas. So, Nebraska took off and sniped Missouri's spot. With Florida State I don't think North Carolina was ever threatened by the talk of them going to the B1G because if they were the 15th team who would have been 16? UConn or Georgia Tech? If Ga. Tech and Florida State went to the B1G then Virginia and North Carolina could call Mike Slive today and be extended invitations to the SEC.

The biggest mistake the B1G made was not getting 2 ACC schools and instead taking Rutgers along with Maryland. What this showed was the ACC wasn't as vulnerable as we were led to believe by the butthurt dumba$$es from WVU, and gives credance to the fact that Maryland left because NC St AD Debbie Yow left their AD program in so much red they had to wh*re themselves out to the B1G to keeps its AD afloat. The ACC can blame Maryland's departure on Debbie Yow. North Carolina KNEW it could live without Maryland. Taking Maryland hurt the ACC, but didn't wound it as honestly Louisville has better football and basketball in the past decade and has reason to believe it can be sustained. Florida State to the B1G wouldn't have harmed North Carolina one bit either as they knew the SEC/B1G BOTH want them, and honestly I don't know which the school/fanbase prefers over the other.

I think is is probably a reasonable synopsis. Like you said, it didn't work exactly because UNC was not in the same position Nebraska was. I kept telling the Dude and all the reallignment junkies (of which I am one) that they were WAY overestimating the tobacco road and Virginia schools interest in moving. They simply don't get that UNC folks see the ACC the same way SEC folks see the SEC. It is a fundamental part of their identity, and not something they're going to toss overboard for $15M a year (and they are a rich school anyway).

Keeping the ACC together simply came down to two factors, UNC's desire to stay in the ACC, and the SEC's disinterest in inviting FSU. Everything else revolving around it is just noise around those two facts. Those are the only two things that ultimately mattered, no matter all the chatter of UVA jumping to the B1G first, or Miami to the Big 12, or VT to the SEC. The only things that mattered were that UNC wasn't going anywhere, and the SEC wasn't inviting FSU. Without either of those things happening, or happening in the future, the ACC will hold.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

Well now that we all are pleased with the GOR signing by the teams of the ACC; it should be noted that the B1G was not and is not stopping its expansion move. As we discussed on the board in several different threads the ACC began protecting itself back in Third QTR. last year. It was a necessity ( see new link to article below via CBSSPORTS) and a good defensive/aggressive plan by Swofford and the ACC to protect what was in many minds the very best overall conference in the USA: academics, all sports including Olympic, geographic footprint, and demographics of its footprint:
1. Brought in Notre Dame as an associate member--and just to repeat from previous threads--ACC was not the only conference to offer Notre Dame the deal
2. November article with Swarbrick and Swofford indicating that the ACC from a TV dollar perspective would be "in the ball park" of other conferences--in fact Swarbrick indicated dollars would be greater than other TOP 5 conference(s)
3. Uncovering of the ACC Network that is soon to be announced--more later
4. Loss of Maryland but a very fast turn-around bringing in Louisville--remember the threads on the 4x4x4 realignment planning/strategy group that the ACC constructed prior to 'Cuse/Pitt being invited to the ACC...this committee is still up and running and continuously updates its "what ifs" and "what to execute" based on college landscape and opportunities that the ACC should pursue
--happened so quickly without negative publicity based on 4x4x4 recommendation to ACC Conference--members of 4x4 included 4 presidents, 4 AD's, and 4 athletic department faculty representative
--this committee has its "bag" of recommendations ready to go for just about anything that is going to come up relative to expansion and TV contracts etc

So why was this all revved up in the 3rd Qtr. last year...and even earlier...the link below published last night is a good read. It is evident that the B1G was hunting long before most knew publicly that they were hunting universities in the BE, ACC, SEC, and to a degree the Big 12.

There is more to this insofar as what was transpiring...and some even had the universities targeted but did not have all the facts...majority of universities were not moving at least in the ACC because they had been taken step by step as to what the ACC was undertaking...award of STEALTH COMMISSIONER truly goes to Swofford:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...eriously-with-several-schools-about-expansion

It is good to be 'Cuse!!!!

Noting that the B1G still may wanna expand and that the ACC's current design of 14+1 for football and 15 for basketball makes for weird scheduling, why doesn't the ACC add #16 now (i.e. UCONN or Cincy, but preferably UCONN) ?

IMO, adding UCONN would keep the B1G from encroaching anymore on the Northeast AND help with scheduling as hoops could go to 16 with two divisions and football could have three 5-team pods that'd allow for a very neat 9-game league schedule with teams always playing all teams in their pod and rotating between the other two each year.

Plus, it'd add all sorts of content to an ACC Network. More mens hoops, more mens soccer, more baseball, more track & field, more women's hoops, more womens soccer, more softball, more everything.

And the ACC Men's Hoops would go to a level never before seen in America... You'd have, arguably, 5 of the top 10 teams of the last 15-20 years all in one conference - with a few other national heavyweights looking to take their shot.

BTW, no need to respond with "" - I'm trying to raise a legitimate question.

 

[Scooch]

While I think a case can be made for the B1G taking FSU as part of the right package of schools, it is my belief that the B1G was trying to "Missouri" Florida State. String them along, in hopes that they say or do something stupid to destabilize the ACC. At which time the B1G takes UVA and UNC and tells FSU thanks but no thanks.

It worked like a charm for the B1G in getting Nebraska, I think it's very possible that talks with FSU had the same goal.

The Big Ten didn't need to "destabilize" the Big 12 to get Nebraska to join. The Big 12 had been destabilizing itself since the moment it formed. Nebraska had been unhappy for years -- they lost annual games against their biggest historic football rival, and were forced to deal with the massive ego of Texas.

If the B1G wanted UNC, UVA and GaTech then they'd go talk to UNC, UVA and GaTech. They wouldn't need to fake interest in FSU to destabilize the ACC.

Occam's Razor.

 

[Alsacs]

Keeping the ACC together simply came down to two factors, UNC's desire to stay in the ACC, and the SEC's disinterest in inviting FSU. Everything else revolving around it is just noise around those two facts. Those are the only two things that ultimately mattered, no matter all the chatter of UVA jumping to the B1G first, or Miami to the Big 12, or VT to the SEC. The only things that mattered were that UNC wasn't going anywhere, and the SEC wasn't inviting FSU. Without either of those things happening, or happening in the future, the ACC will hold.

You nailed it in the last paragraph. If the SEC wanted the best football teams Florida State and Clemson which are SEC football teams are the obvious picks, but without the SEC wanting Florida State and the fact North Carolina is VERY comfortable with the status quo nothing more is going to happen, and honestly all WVU did was cause a lot of unnecessary stress and probably irrevocably harm there chances of ever being invited to the ACC even though they after Penn State are probably the best choice for team 16 when Notre Dame joins full-time eventually. I think eventually the 4 of Big XII teams Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Kansas aren't going to go to the Pac-12, but they will be eaten by the B1G/SEC 2 each. I don't know which where, but my guesses Texas/Oklahoma State to the SEC West with Auburn/Alabama going to the SEC East, and Oklahoma/Kansas going into the B1G West. Then the remaining Big XII schools joining up with UConn, Cincinnati, South Florida, Central Florida, Temple, any 1 more in a new conference. If WVU didn't piss off the ACC so much they would have a chance at the 16th ACC, but not anymore.

 

[Alsacs]

Noting that the B1G still may wanna expand and that the ACC's current design of 14+1 for football and 15 for basketball makes for weird scheduling, why doesn't the ACC add #16 now (i.e. UCONN or Cincy, but preferably UCONN) ?

IMO, adding UCONN would keep the B1G from encroaching anymore on the Northeast AND help with scheduling as hoops could go to 16 with two divisions and football could have three 5-team pods that'd allow for a very neat 9-game league schedule with teams always playing all teams in their pod and rotating between the other two each year.

Plus, it'd add all sorts of content to an ACC Network. More mens hoops, more mens soccer, more baseball, more track & field, more women's hoops, more womens soccer, more softball, more everything.

And the ACC Men's Hoops would go to a level never before seen in America... You'd have, arguably, 5 of the top 10 teams of the last 15-20 years all in one conference - with a few other national heavyweights looking to take their shot.

BTW, no need to respond with "" - I'm trying to raise a legitimate question.

The ACC can't add 15th team till ND wants to commit fully, ND has given the ACC its verbal, but until signing day they aren't a part of the football division. The ACC can't go 10 years with 15 teams and create horrible football scheduling nightmares. If ND would commit tomorrow even the football schools Clemson, and Florida State would be okay with UConn as the 16th team. If the B1G takes UConn there will always be Cincinnati or West Virginia to be had as the 16th team.
Tha ACC has no pressure to add UConn because they aren't infinitely better than Cincinnati. That is why the ACC is done expanding until "signing day" and Notre Dame faxes over the LOI.

 

[Btstimpy]

Arb, I'm pretty new to this board (not the reallignment issue). Can you elaborate on the 4x4x4 committee? Interested to know more about that.

Here's an article on the 4x4x4 committee and who was on it during the invitations of Syracuse and Pitt. Obviously some of the people have changed because Maryland was part of it, we have new members, and the BC Athletic Director retired. But this shows the structure.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/te...tried-to-keep-secret-20110926,0,1088304.story

 

[Lou_C]

The Big Ten didn't need to "destabilize" the Big 12 to get Nebraska to join. The Big 12 had been destabilizing itself since the moment it formed. Nebraska had been unhappy for years -- they lost annual games against their biggest historic football rival, and were forced to deal with the massive ego of Texas.

If the B1G wanted UNC, UVA and GaTech then they'd go talk to UNC, UVA and GaTech. They wouldn't need to fake interest in FSU to destabilize the ACC.

Occam's Razor.

Some truth in the Nebraska part, but they didn't jump until Missouri ran their mouth. Either because Missouri threatening the conference gave Nebraska the cover to sell the move to the fans, or because Nebraska was hemming and hawing with their invite, and potentially saw Missouri as taking Neb's spot at 12. Whatever the exact dynamics, most people draw a correlation between Missouri going public and Nebraska jumping.

As for the second part, you are right but that wasn't my point. Clearly approaching those schools is the first move. The idea is that the B1G didn't get the response they wanted when approaching UVA and UNC. I think that's clear by the fact that Rutgers was Maryland's partner. With UNC and UVA proving instransigent, you start chatting up FSU. Asking UNC/UVA to leave a conference without FSU already gone is a little different thing. Especially if someone like UVA gets nervous that they might lose their spot.

Obviously, it didn't work. But I'm fairly positive FSU and the B1G had talks. My opinion is that those were not genuine, or at the very least not a priority, on the part of the B1G. I think they were hoping to spur a change of position from schools they were actually interested in. I still think they might have invited FSU as part of a UNC/UVA/GT/Duke package if it had ultimately come to that, but FSU obviously wasn't willing to chance that any longer, and was satisfied enough with the current ACC vision to reverse it's position on a GOR.

 

[Lou_C]

The ACC can't add 15th team till ND wants to commit fully, ND has given the ACC its verbal, but until signing day they aren't a part of the football division. The ACC can't go 10 years with 15 teams and create horrible football scheduling nightmares. If ND would commit tomorrow even the football schools Clemson, and Florida State would be okay with UConn as the 16th team. If the B1G takes UConn there will always be Cincinnati or West Virginia to be had as the 16th team.
Tha ACC has no pressure to add UConn because they aren't infinitely better than Cincinnati. That is why the ACC is done expanding until "signing day" and Notre Dame faxes over the LOI.

I agree that one school now doesn't help. But the ACC should at least be considering taking Uconn and Cincinnati, IF the money works out. It's hard to imagine it does, but there could be some extenuating circumstances.

Could UConn guarantee full NY State/New England ACCNet carriage? Can Cinci get ACCN on everywhere in Ohio? Is ESPN willing to pay a premium to take care of their headquarters state, possibly retaining good will that is mor valuable than $20M a year to pay UConn's ACC share? Does blocking potential B1G and Big 12 expansion candidates give ESPN any leverage they'd be willing to pay for?

I don't THINK any of that adds up to being able to invite schools like UConn and Cinci and still stay at $20M. But it very worth looking into it. Not only does it stiff-arm the B1G and Big 12, but it allows the ACC to go to pod scheduling it so desparately needs. Expands it's conference-leading footprint.

I really think it's time to stop making any decisions based on the idea of when/if Notre Dame joins full time. I was ok waiting to see how these last couple years played out re: playoffs and their TV contract, but the ACC can't make decisions around their "spot" for another 12 years just to get let down again. Notre Dame knows where to find us if they want in.

 

[Scooch]

Some truth in the Nebraska part, but they didn't jump until Missouri ran their mouth. Either because Missouri threatening the conference gave Nebraska the cover to sell the move to the fans, or because Nebraska was hemming and hawing with their invite, and potentially saw Missouri as taking Neb's spot at 12. Whatever the exact dynamics, most people draw a correlation between Missouri going public and Nebraska jumping.

The point is that Nebraska wasn't "hemming and hawing" and wasn't afraid of losing a spot. They had been unhappy with the Big 12 for years. The B1G didn't need to falsely engage with Mizzou to get Nebraska to move. Nebraska didn't need cover and they didn't need to sell it. You're mixing the order of events. Mizzou started talking precisely because they knew they were not a primary target for B1G expansion.

As for the second part, you are right but that wasn't my point. Clearly approaching those schools is the first move. The idea is that the B1G didn't get the response they wanted when approaching UVA and UNC. I think that's clear by the fact that Rutgers was Maryland's partner. With UNC and UVA proving instransigent, you start chatting up FSU. Asking UNC/UVA to leave a conference without FSU already gone is a little different thing. Especially if someone like UVA gets nervous that they might lose their spot.

Obviously, it didn't work. But I'm fairly positive FSU and the B1G had talks. My opinion is that those were not genuine, or at the very least not a priority, on the part of the B1G. I think they were hoping to spur a change of position from schools they were actually interested in. I still think they might have invited FSU as part of a UNC/UVA/GT/Duke package if it had ultimately come to that, but FSU obviously wasn't willing to chance that any longer, and was satisfied enough with the current ACC vision to reverse it's position on a GOR.

I'm sure FSU and the B1G had talks too. I suspect the B1G has talked to a couple dozen schools in the past few years. I don't think the B1G talking to FSU was part of some Monty Burns-like evil scheme to trick UNC and UVA into joining.

 

[Alsacs]

I agree that one school now doesn't help. But the ACC should at least be considering taking Uconn and Cincinnati, IF the money works out. It's hard to imagine it does, but there could be some extenuating circumstances.

Could UConn guarantee full NY State/New England ACCNet carriage? Can Cinci get ACCN on everywhere in Ohio? Is ESPN willing to pay a premium to take care of their headquarters state, possibly retaining good will that is mor valuable than $20M a year to pay UConn's ACC share? Does blocking potential B1G and Big 12 expansion candidates give ESPN any leverage they'd be willing to pay for?

I don't THINK any of that adds up to being able to invite schools like UConn and Cinci and still stay at $20M. But it very worth looking into it. Not only does it stiff-arm the B1G and Big 12, but it allows the ACC to go to pod scheduling it so desparately needs. Expands it's conference-leading footprint.

I really think it's time to stop making any decisions based on the idea of when/if Notre Dame joins full time. I was ok waiting to see how these last couple years played out re: playoffs and their TV contract, but the ACC can't make decisions around their "spot" for another 12 years just to get let down again. Notre Dame knows where to find us if they want in.

IMO ACC should not and will not expand without Notre Dame committing fulltime. Even if that means waiting 10+ years for their recently signed contract with NBC to expire. Adding, UConn and Cincinnati are not necessary right now and expansion for the sake of expansion isn't good. The B1G isn't going to add UConn/Cincinnati as a duo and with one of them out there the ACC is fine.

The Big XII isn't going to expand until Texas says so and Deloss Dodds is on record saying he doesn't want to expand right now. I think ESPN is done renegotiating the fact they went for 17 to 20 million this past time after the GOR was signed was them saying enough we closed the gap . I think the ACC network will get support from ESPN, but it will be on the ACC/Raycom to handle most of the work on the field and in negotiations with the cable providers.

Florida State and the other ACC teams will make less than the SEC/B1G, but with the ACC network will make more than Big XII because of the ACC network and comparable with the Pac-12.