ESPN's David Hale ranked how he has ACC schools talent by position. | Syracusefan.com

ESPN's David Hale ranked how he has ACC schools talent by position.

Alsacs

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He explains on rankings. Here

Looking at the composite we have a talent problem that Dino is cleaning up. He wasn't left depth. Last year's Seniors Ish/Irv/Zaire/Bennett were really huge.

It is good our QB/OL are trending up. However our biggest problem has been talent on defense. Dino hopefully has these underclassmen ready to contribute at the P5 level this year or at worst by next year.

Dungey is going to have to carry us to 6 wins.
No excuse for us not developing defensive talent to be competitve. If BC can do it we can soon. Dino has had to overhaul the defensive talent.
 
I think we might be ranked a little too high at WR, definitely too low at DL. I think we belong around 7 there.

We deserve a 14 for LBs at this point and our DBs are too low. We have 4 starters returning, all can play and there are more talented players in the wings to back them up.
 
Is that #2 ranking account for the inevitable Dungy injury and DeVito stepping in?
 
Reading from the top down is pretty much reading our ACC schedule. We play:
Clemson(1), BC(3), FSU(4), NC State(5), UNC(6), Wake(7), Ville(9), Pitt(11)
 
In sub rankings for FB I think the most important positions are
1. QB
2. OL
3. DL
4. DB

A good QB can overcome mediocre WRs. As the gap between 1-14 in that isn't that large.

Robinson and Slayton IMO are legit. Dino just needs depth so those guys can be fresher.
 
The comments about our defense for the DL and DB were tough to read and re-affirm how bad that D was at times last year, yikes.
Losing Cordy week 1 was a killer. Shafer didn't leave much in the secondary.
2 years ago it was probably the worst unit in P5 football.
Our 3rd down percentage defense totally masked the fact our D wasn't good. Those lucky stops on 3rd down masked it a lot.
We had some talent at LB but it was just par for most P5 teams but because we are deficient in NFL talent on D it made it look better. It was just standard college football LB talent and now we don't have that.
 
Losing Cordy week 1 was a killer. Shafer didn't leave much in the secondary.
2 years ago it was probably the worst unit in P5 football.
Our 3rd down percentage defense totally masked the fact our D wasn't good. Those lucky stops on 3rd down masked it a lot.
We had some talent at LB but it was just par for most P5 teams but because we are deficient in NFL talent on D it made it look better. It was just standard college football LB talent and now we don't have that.

Ya that sounds about right. I thought the D was better for at least the first half of last year but based on the stats that may have been due to the 3rd down D success earlier in the year then the D actually being a lot better. The comments about the D-line and what we gave up before first contact and the DB's givign up an average of 9 yards on third down was really alarming. I knew the D was bad the last quarter of the year but it was worse then I thought, it was terrible baed on those stats. I am hopeful we will be better this year but with the question marks at LB who knows for sure. The secondary can't possibly be worse and theres some new talent coming in there. Getting Johnson may prove to be a boon for secondary like Alton last year.
 
Losing Cordy week 1 was a killer. Shafer didn't leave much in the secondary.
2 years ago it was probably the worst unit in P5 football.
Our 3rd down percentage defense totally masked the fact our D wasn't good. Those lucky stops on 3rd down masked it a lot.
We had some talent at LB but it was just par for most P5 teams but because we are deficient in NFL talent on D it made it look better. It was just standard college football LB talent and now we don't have that.

Lucky stops?

Bennett and Franklin made spectacular plays, repeatedly. Martin blew up 2-3 a game.

And it’s not that we don’t have standard LB talent. We just don’t know what we have.
 
Lucky stops?

Bennett and Franklin made spectacular plays, repeatedly. Martin blew up 2-3 a game.

And it’s not that we don’t have standard LB talent. We just don’t know what we have.
Our 3rd down D was luck.
It evened out at the end of the year where we couldn't stop anyone.
The D deserved more wins for its play early on i.e. MTSU/LSU/FSU games and the O was gaining yards but not enough points.

Our D talent wasn't a lot. Dino is working on building depth not just a few guys who can play but surviving injuries.
 
Ya that sounds about right. I thought the D was better for at least the first half of last year but based on the stats that may have been due to the 3rd down D success earlier in the year then the D actually being a lot better. The comments about the D-line and what we gave up before first contact and the DB's givign up an average of 9 yards on third down was really alarming. I knew the D was bad the last quarter of the year but it was worse then I thought, it was terrible baed on those stats. I am hopeful we will be better this year but with the question marks at LB who knows for sure. The secondary can't possibly be worse and theres some new talent coming in there. Getting Johnson may prove to be a boon for secondary like Alton last year.

I need to check - but our D was low 60’s in S&P+ until Dungey went down. Mid 60’s doesn’t sound great, but it was a 40+ point jump.

S&P+ takes more than just 3rd down data into account. We were in the top half of the ACC in stuff rate until the implosion too.

That 3rd down data was over 6+ games and we were in the top 5. That’s not luck.
 
Our 3rd down D was luck.
It evened out at the end of the year where we couldn't stop anyone.
The D deserved more wins for its play early on i.e. MTSU/LSU/FSU games and the O was gaining yards but not enough points.

Our D talent wasn't a lot. Dino is working on building depth not just a few guys who can play but surviving injuries.

Prove it. With numbers.

I agree that our talent at the top was average and that we lack depth.
 
Prove it. With numbers.

I agree that our talent at the top was average and that we lack depth.
Prove it I remember 2 times against LSU the QB made awful passes that were open for first downs. That killed drives.
Against NC State when we couldn't stop them from running we got lucky their coaching was stupid and called for passes.
Any time other than against Pitt where the D was dominant as I remember that game we had several 3rd downs the opponent did us a favor.
It is not to take away credit from how our D played. In the first 8 games they were awesome and deserved more success. It was just flukey.
Anytime we get an incomplete pass against P5 team I have been shocked these past years. That is how bad our D has been.
 
Prove it. With numbers.

I agree that our talent at the top was average and that we lack depth.

This quote from Hale is pretty damning: "We analyzed the advanced stats in nearly a dozen categories from last year and were hard pressed to find one that Syracuse didn't rank dead last in. On passing downs last year -- when the defense should have the advantage - the Orange allowed 64 percent completions and nearly 9 yards per attempt. We're not even sure how that's possible. "

The 64% completion percentage and 9 yards per attempt on third down are horrific. Its clear the D fell apart the last quarter + of the season if not more.
 
This quote from Hale is pretty damning: "We analyzed the advanced stats in nearly a dozen categories from last year and were hard pressed to find one that Syracuse didn't rank dead last in. On passing downs last year -- when the defense should have the advantage - the Orange allowed 64 percent completions and nearly 9 yards per attempt. We're not even sure how that's possible. "

The 64% completion percentage and 9 yards per attempt on third down are horrific. Its clear the D fell apart the last quarter + of the season if not more.
Honestly I don't get how our defensive staffs have been so bad on 3rd and long for the last decade.
If I were coaching them you tell them to play sticks D. Keep the receiver in front of the stick and just tackle. Don't attack don't let them behind you. Keep it in front. Instead we give free releases and don't play sticks D its always soft zone and gets burned.
 
3rd down D is part of the game, counts and wasn't lucky. The one thing T2 is recognized for is 3rd Down stop %; as well as turnovers and TD rates. The D was good the 1st half of the season.

It's silly to get into the 'lucky' game anyway as there's some luck on both sidelines. Like Sean Riley dropping an easy TD pass in that LSU game.
 
These articles are stupid.

We're in that dead time of year where camp hasn't started yet, but the start of the season is tantalizingly close. There isn't much to talk about, but there is a desire for something - ANYTHING! - to read, so pieces like this get written and devoured. All the better that it comes with charts and "advanced statistics" and such, giving it the veneer of accurate analysis (note: I'm 100% in favor of advanced statistics in measuring and detecting things in a team that often escape the "eye test").

What makes articles like this stupid are that they, by definition, cannot account for improvements and developmental gains in the off season. This is not the NFL, where players are closer to finished products (but by no means actual finished products). We're talking about incoming true freshman (more and more of whom are ready to contribute year 1 due to early enrollment and more demanding high school regimens). Young men 18-22 are still growing and maturing - physically and mentally - such that massive gains are possible year to year. The game slows down for guys. Units gain cohesion with continuity. Coaching turnover (not just head coach, but position coaches), or lack thereof, is a major factor in teaching and absorbing schemes.

This doesn't even touch the task of separating out talent from scheme (i.e. will schools, with the benefit of an entire offseason, be able to better defend BC's run game, which came out of nowhere midseason).

A tried and true seasoned talent evaluater would be extremely hard pressed to sort out and rank individual units on all 14 ACC teams. For a journalist to take it on, with the expectation that it is at all meaningful, is folly.

GIGO - garbage in, garbage out. It isn't a knock on Hale, it's just a recognition that there are simply too many unknown and unmeasurable variables to undertake such an evaluation with the hope that it has any worthwhile conclusions.
 
Honestly I don't get how our defensive staffs have been so bad on 3rd and long for the last decade.
If I were coaching them you tell them to play sticks D. Keep the receiver in front of the stick and just tackle. Don't attack don't let them behind you. Keep it in front. Instead we give free releases and don't play sticks D its always soft zone and gets burned.

Poorly coached, mediocre talent equals bad defense. Defense has to step up this year in a big way for us to go bowling. With Shafer we had a defensive identity. A terrible HC, good D-Coordinator.
 

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