Fed up college basketball fan (not about BC loss, but long)... | Syracusefan.com

Fed up college basketball fan (not about BC loss, but long)...

Lawrinson14

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I have always loved college basketball.

The atmosphere. The school pride. The non-millionaire, non-primadona players (for the most part).

However, over the last few years my fandom for the game overall has taken a huge hit. Yes, Syracuse has done exceptionally well these past few years, but something just doesn't feel right. I cannot stomach watching games unless the orange are playing. And after giving it some thought I have narrowed it down to 3 reasons why:

1. The Scoring
Everyone used to make fun of the B10 for their horrendous pace of play. Yet, this grind it out, slow style has seemingly become the mainstream pace of play for the majority of major conference teams around the county. Just look at some of our scores this year (Duke game is an outlier):

62-59 (including OT)
56-55
58-56
57-44
61-45
etc.

Watching teams hold the ball for 30 seconds only to jack up a 3 with 2 on the shotclock is just not fun to watch. I have started to watch games with my iPad on my lap so I can browse the internet during the seemingly endless lulls of action.

2. The Refs
It is starting to get really, really old watching Syracuse games get muddied up by the incompetence of referees. And I'm not just talking about calls that went against us.

Blocking/charging, out of bounds plays, reaching, moving screens, 3 seconds, touch fouls...there is just no consistency at all. It's basically become the wild west out there. Some crews call everything. Some crews call nothing.

When teams are routinely in the bonus around the 8-10 minute mark, something is seriously wrong.

3. Over-saturation
ESPN, ESPN, ESPNU, ESPN3, CBS, CBS Sports, YES, B10 Network, WLNY, MSG, MSG+, FS1

Nearly every night of the week, college basketball games are being played on these networks simultaneously. And even if you chose not to watch these games, you are bombarded with promos and the like for upcoming "action". And since their are so many games on at the same time, the pool of talented announcers and analysts has gotten so thin that my mute button is almost permanently pressed in.

Also, the ESPN hype machine has gotten out of control. When Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky play, the sidebar and highlights neglect the team as a whole and for the most part focus solely on Parker, Wiggins, and Randle, respectively.

-------

Some people may say that you can never have too much of a good thing. Yet, when it comes to college basketball I feel like a child who has eaten so much candy that he has gotten one heck of a stomach ache.
 
Last edited:

BuffOrange

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I hear ya man. My fandom has not tailed off and I admit it's probably 100% due to 'Cuse being really good (hey the only other team I care about is the Bills so give me a break).

There's something wrong when 30sec's of zero intention of getting a shot + jacked up 3 is the optimal way to play. They really need to shorten the shot clock or move the 3pt line back - preferably both.

Yes I realize that'll sound like sour grapes this morning but I've felt the same way watching most of these games this year.
 

Millhouse

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I have always loved college basketball.

The atmosphere. The school pride. The non-millionaire, non-primadona players (for the most part).

However, over the last few years my fandom for the game overall has taken a huge hit. Yes, Syracuse has done exceptionally well these past few years, but something just doesn't feel right. I cannot stomach watching games unless the orange are playing. And after giving it some thought I have narrowed it down to 3 reasons why:

1. The Scoring
Everyone used to make fun of the B10 for their horrendous pace of play. Yet, this grind it out, slow style has seemingly become the mainstream pace of play for the majority of major conference teams around the county. Just look at some of our scores this year (Duke game is an outlier):

62-59 (including OT)
56-55
58-56
57-44
61-45
etc.

Watching teams hold the ball for 30 seconds only to jack up a 3 with 2 on the shotclock is just not fun to watch. I have started to watch games with my iPad on my lap so I can browse the internet during the seemingly endless lulls of action.

1. The Refs
It is starting to get really, really old watching Syracuse games get muddied up by the incompetence of referees. And I'm not just talking about calls that went against us.

Blocking/charging, out of bounds plays, reaching, moving screens, 3 seconds, touch fouls...there is just no consistency at all. It's basically become the wild west out there. Some crews call everything. Some crews call nothing.

When teams are routinely in the bonus around the 8-10 minute mark, something is seriously wrong.

1. Over-saturation
ESPN, ESPN, ESPNU, ESPN3, CBS, CBS Sports, YES, B10 Network, WLNY, MSG, MSG+, FS1

Nearly every night of the week, college basketball games are being played on these networks simultaneously. And even if you chose not to watch these games, you are bombarded with promos and the like for upcoming "action". And since their are so many games on at the same time, the pool of talented announcers and analysts has gotten so thin that my mute button is almost permanently pressed in.

Also, the ESPN hype machine has gotten out of control. When Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky play, the sidebar and highlights neglect the team as a whole and for the most part focus solely on Parker, Wiggins, and Randle, respectively.

-------

Some people may say that you can never have too much of a good thing. Yet, when it comes to college basketball I feel like a child who has eaten so much candy that he has gotten one heck of a stomach ache.
it's a little funny that boeheim has known for years that the bad shot you get after milking the clock isn't really that much worse than the shot you get playing normal.

we've been watching him shorten the game for years. in his case, it's when there's a lead and he's knows the other teams values possessions above all else.

when bad teams play that way now, they're just fighting the law of large numbers. fewer possessions, more volatility. when you are the worse team, volatility is your friend
 

dollarbill44

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I think the prevalence of the "use the entire shot clock" strategy is because coaches of lesser talented teams have figured out that it's the only way they can stay close with more talented teams and have shot at the end of the game. Take the air out of the ball, keep the score low and try to get a little luck. I miss the days when some of these smaller schools just tried to outrun/outgun the higher-ranked teams. College hoops was more entertaining.
 

Alsacs

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Taking the air out of the ball with a lead in the last 4 minutes is smart. Taking the air out of ball from the beginning which is what teams have been doing to us is infuriating. Vermont beat us because they took the air out of the ball. BC beat us last night doing that. I don't care if the other team beats us, but I hate when we let them dictate tempo and try nothing to speed them up. If we pressed for 3-4 minutes to start the game and gave up a couple of layups, but sped the other team it would be smart in the long run.

College Football timing rules favor the more talented team, but college basketball timing rules favor the less talented team by allowing them to shorten games by just hitting 3pt shots and keeping the game close. Teams that press are smartest teams in college basketball because they force turnovers, and speed other teams up and get them out of rhythm. Jim Boeheim will forget more basketball than this entire board will ever know combined, but he is content for some reason to let the other team dictate tempo each game this season. I get he is confident in his closer Ennis, but it makes games with teams of inferior talent closer than they should be. Syracuse offense isn't elite, but its good enough that if we had more possessions we would score more. However, Wake Forest, Miami, Clemson, Pittsburgh, NC State, Boston College all these teams have just played a slow tempo and hoped to beat us in the last 5 minutes and while we have won all of them up to last night it impossible to bat 1.000.
 

Oakland

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I'll add one more - recruiting 'shenanigans'.

I have always loved college basketball.

The atmosphere. The school pride. The non-millionaire, non-primadona players (for the most part).

However, over the last few years my fandom for the game overall has taken a huge hit. Yes, Syracuse has done exceptionally well these past few years, but something just doesn't feel right. I cannot stomach watching games unless the orange are playing. And after giving it some thought I have narrowed it down to 3 reasons why:


Also, the ESPN hype machine has gotten out of control. When Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky play, the sidebar and highlights neglect the team as a whole and for the most part focus solely on Parker, Wiggins, and Randle, respectively.

-------

Some people may say that you can never have too much of a good thing. Yet, when it comes to college basketball I feel like a child who has eaten so much candy that he has gotten one heck of a stomach ache.
 

l'orange

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Everyone used to make fun of the B10 for their horrendous pace of play. Yet, this grind it out, slow style has seemingly become the mainstream pace of play for the majority of major conference teams around the county.

I have to agree. It is great to win but this Syracuse team hasn't been too entertaining or exciting to watch...
 

tptcuse

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I hear what you are saying to some degree, especially pace of game. But it is still a great sport and I am glad you are on the board. Your photos and good spirit make it even more fun to follow Cuse hoops!
 

HoustonCuse

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A 24 second shot clock would either make the game incredibly great or it would just be a turnover fest where 85% of points were scored on breakaway dunks. That sounds good but would get seriously old after a while. I'm sure the worry is that there just isn't enough talent in college basketball to pull off the 24 second clock. I feel like it would certainly be worth it to find out. I personally think that if you abolished the 3 point line and added a 24 second clock, Syracuse would never lose a game ever.
 

Alsacs

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24 second shot shouldn't be implemented because the players aren't developed enough for a 24 second shot clock. Just reducing it 5 seconds would force the coaches to develop their players better and create a good offensive system. Reducing 5 seconds would prevent teams from playing stall ball the entire game, and honestly I don't want a 24 second shot clock unless they completely changed the time of the game to 48 minutes like the NBA. If you reduced it to 24 then teams would trap after made baskets like Villanova does and shave 6-7 seconds off your shot clock and you would have 17-18 seconds for an offensive set. If you had a 30 second shot clock you would have 23-24 seconds on offense if teams trapped after made baskets.
 

CorduroyG

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30 second shot clock. These games in the 50s with the other team passing the ball around for 30 seconds then jacking up a 3 then getting a long rebound then passing for another 30 seconds is incredibly frustrating. That's what made the first duke game so great, a free flowing offensive game.
 

Millhouse

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24 second shot shouldn't be implemented because the players aren't developed enough for a 24 second shot clock. Just reducing it 5 seconds would force the coaches to develop their players better and create a good offensive system. Reducing 5 seconds would prevent teams from playing stall ball the entire game, and honestly I don't want a 24 second shot clock unless they completely changed the time of the game to 48 minutes like the NBA. If you reduced it to 24 then teams would trap after made baskets like Villanova does and shave 6-7 seconds off your shot clock and you would have 17-18 seconds for an offensive set. If you had a 30 second shot clock you would have 23-24 seconds on offense if teams trapped after made baskets.

never thought about the trapping aspect. i'm against 24 seconds just because i think it's too short (although most NBA teams have started moving the ball better and stopped all the iso snoozefest). in college, you'd just end up tossing it to fair and hoping for the best

(as opposed to the current 35 second clock where we uhh just end up tossing it fair and hoping for the best)
 

CuseCPT

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Well, watch the Survive and Advance 30 for 30 to look at what college teams used to look like when staying 4 was the norm, and imagine all the guys from the NBA Rising Starts game still in NCAA. No wonder the scores are down.
 

OrangeDW

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I have always loved college basketball.

The atmosphere. The school pride. The non-millionaire, non-primadona players (for the most part).

However, over the last few years my fandom for the game overall has taken a huge hit. Yes, Syracuse has done exceptionally well these past few years, but something just doesn't feel right. I cannot stomach watching games unless the orange are playing. And after giving it some thought I have narrowed it down to 3 reasons why:

1. The Scoring
Everyone used to make fun of the B10 for their horrendous pace of play. Yet, this grind it out, slow style has seemingly become the mainstream pace of play for the majority of major conference teams around the county. Just look at some of our scores this year (Duke game is an outlier):

62-59 (including OT)
56-55
58-56
57-44
61-45
etc.

Watching teams hold the ball for 30 seconds only to jack up a 3 with 2 on the shotclock is just not fun to watch. I have started to watch games with my iPad on my lap so I can browse the internet during the seemingly endless lulls of action.

2. The Refs
It is starting to get really, really old watching Syracuse games get muddied up by the incompetence of referees. And I'm not just talking about calls that went against us.

Blocking/charging, out of bounds plays, reaching, moving screens, 3 seconds, touch fouls...there is just no consistency at all. It's basically become the wild west out there. Some crews call everything. Some crews call nothing.

When teams are routinely in the bonus around the 8-10 minute mark, something is seriously wrong.

3. Over-saturation
ESPN, ESPN, ESPNU, ESPN3, CBS, CBS Sports, YES, B10 Network, WLNY, MSG, MSG+, FS1

Nearly every night of the week, college basketball games are being played on these networks simultaneously. And even if you chose not to watch these games, you are bombarded with promos and the like for upcoming "action". And since their are so many games on at the same time, the pool of talented announcers and analysts has gotten so thin that my mute button is almost permanently pressed in.

Also, the ESPN hype machine has gotten out of control. When Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky play, the sidebar and highlights neglect the team as a whole and for the most part focus solely on Parker, Wiggins, and Randle, respectively.

-------

Some people may say that you can never have too much of a good thing. Yet, when it comes to college basketball I feel like a child who has eaten so much candy that he has gotten one heck of a stomach ache.

I've felt the same way for a few years too. College hoops is a hard watch now. Other than Cuse games, I don't think I've sat and watched an entire game all season. Most of these games are boring.
 

Alsacs

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never thought about the trapping aspect. i'm against 24 seconds just because i think it's too short (although most NBA teams have started moving the ball better and stopped all the iso snoozefest). in college, you'd just end up tossing it to fair and hoping for the best

(as opposed to the current 35 second clock where we uhh just end up tossing it fair and hoping for the best)
Yeah, college basketball teams would struggle with a 24 second shot clock. Just because teams would pressure/trap and destroy offensive flow. In the NBA teams can't press because they play so many back to backs and an 82 game schedule would destroy their legs for the playoffs. In college basketball, Pitino/Shaka Smart/Jay Wright would pressure kill the 24 seconds down and their teams would only have to defend 16-17 seconds each possession. I think a 30 second shot clock would shave 5 seconds and would add 5-10 possession per team each game and that would allow for more shots and points.
 

Knicks411

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I am so on board with a 30 second shot clock its ridiculous. Going from 35 to 24 would be a disaster unless you're talking about the age of your girlfriend. (kind of forced that joke in there but i like it so i'm gonna keep it)

Go to 30, the players will adapt. After 5 years or something, you can talk about going to 24.
 

Bornorange

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I have always loved college basketball.

The atmosphere. The school pride. The non-millionaire, non-primadona players (for the most part).
However, over the last few years my fandom for the game overall has taken a huge hit. Yes, Syracuse has done exceptionally well these past few years, but something just doesn't feel right. I cannot stomach watching games unless the orange are playing. And after giving it some thought I have narrowed it down to 3 reasons why:
me people may say that you can never have too much of a good thing. Yet, when it comes to college basketball I feel like a child who has eaten so much candy that he has gotten one heck of a stomach ache.

Are you saying you are sick of this long cold winter ?
 

OttoinGrotto

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This post is about to get weird, and is absolutely not the correct statistical way to evaluate things.

There are 2400 seconds that run off of the clock with 20 minute halves. Let's conservatively say that on average NCAA teams average 1 point per possession. The median number of possessions a team will have in a game is 69.

With a 35 second shot clock you see a minimum of 68.57 possessions, or about 34 possessions per team. That assumes everyone holds the ball for the full 35, every time. Since the median number of possessions is 69, I'd say we can somewhat reasonable expect that we can double the minimum number of possessions depending on different shot clock times (that's a bad assumption, but run with it).

With a 30 second shot clock you see a minimum of 80 possessions, or 40 per team. Double that according to the relationship between median possessions and the shot clock now, you're looking at 80 possessions a game, assume 1 point per possession, now you've got games scoring in the 80s again (this is all way too quick and dirty).
 

Knicks411

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The only issue I think is you have to adjust for offensive rebounds; since a possession that goes hold for 35 seconds, missed shot, offensive board, hold for 35 seconds, is 1 possession. (Average is a shade about 1.04 points per possession)

So average possessions per game is 66.8*1.04 gives you roughly 69 points per game. You would be shortening the shot clock by 14%; theoretically that would bump up the possessions by the same number, to about 76, which assuming you kept the efficiency the same (big assumption), puts you around 79 points per game.

It's probably not a straight line to increasing possessions by 14% though, since a lot of teams don't run the clock down every time. I bet maybe its like half that figure, so figure an additional 4-5 possessions per game, per team.
 

OttoinGrotto

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It's probably not a straight line to increasing possessions by 14% though, since a lot of teams don't run the clock down every time. I bet maybe its like half that figure, so figure an additional 4-5 possessions per game, per team.
Yep, that's why I think it's too quick and dirty to trust much. Your quick possessions wouldn't change, just the ones that go longer than whatever you switch the shot clock to.
 

bevosu

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I watch a lot of college basketball (not as much as Marsh). I've been watching since the 70's when I spent a few years at Skytop and walked to Manley.

It's been my impression that although the players are generally more athletic in recent decades, they can't shoot worth a damn. I think the 3 point shot has screwed the game up.

Here's a snippet from a NY Times article ...January 2013..

Teams were averaging 68 points a game at the start of last week, the same as last season, according to Stats LLC. That is the lowest since the average was 67.6 in 1982, according to the N.C.A.A., and about 10 fewer points a game than the record scoring era of the early 1970s when, interestingly, there was no shot clock. This season’s .433 field-goal percentage is the worst since the .431 in 1965.

Accuracy from beyond the arc is down to .339, the lowest since the 3-pointer came into the college game in 1986-87.


There's more speculating as to why in the article...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/s...sketball-missing-a-little-something.html?_r=0
 

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