Film study: Observations from the highlight tape of running back Ish Witter

[Orangeyes]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...study_observations_from_t_2.html#incart_river

 

[cuseinchina]

This reporter is what my mother would call a nasty little twerp. Getting sick of this guy (incorrectly) thinking he has a valid opinion and potentially harming our recruiting. Somehow I think the folks at newhouse are struggling with teaching the kids how to deal with 'new media' and the result is journalists who don't know the difference between a story and a blog post. I responded with the following though I am sure it will do no good:
This recruit grading stuff is a dangerous thing for the post standard to be involved in. It's fairly clear the 'professional' recruiting board services have very little clue how to properly rate players, so how is is a 22 year old recent grad with no pertinent experience supposed to offer anything approaching an informed opinion??

This could be bad for recruiting if you analyze guys who have yet to commit and they see their name come up in a negative light in the Syracuse newspaper. You can sort of justify doing it for someone who has verbally committed, but even then the grades seem to be a really bad idea. Talking about strengths, weaknesses, fit, and personal points of interest, and including commentary from former coaches etc would be interesting reading.

But I suggest you think about the ramifications of what you are doing and whether you are really qualified to be doing it. The other option is to go with a policy of implicit grade inflation - give everyone a B or better...but this of course makes the grade even less meaningless that it already is.

For example your comments that Ish can only go to the outside - did you ask him about this, did you talk to the coach about how he was used and why in whatever offensive scheme his high school employed?? The durability thing is legitimate because you have facts to back it up. but then your comments on his avoiding tackles by running out of bounds is based on one single play in the guy's career to date - that seems pretty ridiculous. Maybe they should have edited that play out, maybe other players have better editers, maybe his coach told him to get out of bounds etc etc. just so many unknowns and to guess in a negative way and write about it seems to show poor judgement

 

[FAL]

Thanks, Cohen. Trying to run off some more potential recruits?

 

[rosconey]

this guys opinion is worth about as much as mine-
so i grade him A if comes to syracuse -B if he goes to mizzu and F if he ends up in joisey

 

[SUfaninAZ]

This reporter is what my mother would call a nasty little twerp. Getting sick of this guy (incorrectly) thinking he has a valid opinion and potentially harming our recruiting. Somehow I think the folks at newhouse are struggling with teaching the kids how to deal with 'new media' and the result is journalists who don't know the difference between a story and a blog post. I responded with the following though I am sure it will do no good:
This recruit grading stuff is a dangerous thing for the post standard to be involved in. It's fairly clear the 'professional' recruiting board services have very little clue how to properly rate players, so how is is a 22 year old recent grad with no pertinent experience supposed to offer anything approaching an informed opinion??

This could be bad for recruiting if you analyze guys who have yet to commit and they see their name come up in a negative light in the Syracuse newspaper. You can sort of justify doing it for someone who has verbally committed, but even then the grades seem to be a really bad idea. Talking about strengths, weaknesses, fit, and personal points of interest, and including commentary from former coaches etc would be interesting reading.

But I suggest you think about the ramifications of what you are doing and whether you are really qualified to be doing it. The other option is to go with a policy of implicit grade inflation - give everyone a B or better...but this of course makes the grade even less meaningless that it already is.

For example your comments that Ish can only go to the outside - did you ask him about this, did you talk to the coach about how he was used and why in whatever offensive scheme his high school employed?? The durability thing is legitimate because you have facts to back it up. but then your comments on his avoiding tackles by running out of bounds is based on one single play in the guy's career to date - that seems pretty ridiculous. Maybe they should have edited that play out, maybe other players have better editers, maybe his coach told him to get out of bounds etc etc. just so many unknowns and to guess in a negative way and write about it seems to show poor judgement

Looks like they deleted your post.

 

[FAL]

Looks like they deleted your post.

You're right--they did. No wonder--did you read all those obscenities cuseinchina was throwing around? :bang: Another new low for the Post-Substandard. So much for objective journalism and constructive criticism!

 

[cuseinchina]

Looks like they deleted your post.

Fortunately I am pretty well finished with anything important for the day and have the luxury of a boss who is located in another country - so I'll go to war with these guys for a bit - post - delete - post - delete. should be a great time.

 

[jekelish]

Who is Michael Cohen and what the hell does he know about football evaluation? Seriously. I played Madden when I was growing up too, but never actually played the sport, and I watch games on Saturdays and Sundays in the fall, but I don't think that gives me a great eye for talent.

The PS needs to cut this out. Right now.

 

[texascpa]

Syracuse.com is only giving what their audience wants, particularly at this time of year. People want to read about recruiting and recruits. He probably should leave off the grade, but with out recruiting analysis what else is he going to report on in May/June?

 

[cuseinchina]

Syracuse.com is only giving what their audience wants, particularly at this time of year. People want to read about recruiting and recruits. He probably should leave off the grade, but with out recruiting analysis what else is he going to report on in May/June?

There is a big difference between reporting on a recruit - gathering information from related parties, coaches, recruiting services, opponents and family members - and pretending you are some sort of recruiting analyst, handing out grades and negative opinions based on analysis informed by nothing. The former is reporting, the latter is garbage.

 

[FAL]

Who is Michael Cohen and what the hell does he know about football evaluation? Seriously. I played Madden when I was growing up too, but never actually played the sport, and I watch games on Saturdays and Sundays in the fall, but I don't think that gives me a great eye for talent.

The PS needs to cut this out. Right now.

He's an SU grad who used to be a sportswriter for the Daily Orange. A year or two out of school. Read a couple of his articles in the past--edgy, semi-controversial sophomoric stuff. Not so bad when he had a limited audience (The Hill). But now his nonsense has a bigger audience (but that is probably shrinking on a daily basis) to spew his nonsense on. And to think they got rid of a guy like Dave Rahme for the likes of him--makes me wanna vomit!

 

[texascpa]

There is a big difference between reporting on a recruit - gathering information from related parties, coaches, recruiting services, opponents and family members - and pretending you are some sort of recruiting analyst, handing out grades and negative opinions based on analysis informed by nothing. The former is reporting, the latter is garbage.

I said he should have done without the grade, but how is his assessment any different than any of ours that we post?

Reporting went out the window years ago. Audience doesn't want reporting, they want controversy.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

A year or two out of school.

Try like a month or two.

 

[FAL]

There is a big difference between reporting on a recruit - gathering information from related parties, coaches, recruiting services, opponents and family members - and pretending you are some sort of recruiting analyst, handing out grades and negative opinions based on analysis informed by nothing. The former is reporting, the latter is garbage.

 

[jekelish]

He's an SU grad who used to be a sportswriter for the Daily Orange. A year or two out of school. Read a couple of his articles in the past--edgy, semi-controversial sophomoric stuff. Not so bad when he had a limited audience (The Hill). But now his nonsense has a bigger audience (but that is probably shrinking on a daily basis) to spew his nonsense on. And to think they got rid of a guy like Dave Rahme for the likes of him--makes me wanna vomit!

I know who he is, I was saying it as more, "who does he THINK he is?" because seriously, why does he think he has knowledge?

 

[FAL]

I said he should have done without the grade, but how is his assessment any different than any of ours that we post?

Reporting went out the window years ago. Audience doesn't want reporting, they want controversy.

We don't get paid for posting our nonsense.

 

[jekelish]

We don't get paid for posting our nonsense.

I get paid for posting nonsense ALL the time.

 

[cuseinchina]

I said he should have done without the grade, but how is his assessment any different than any of ours that we post?

Reporting went out the window years ago. Audience doesn't want reporting, they want controversy.

It's different because he works for the local daily newspaper - it's also different in that some people on here actually know what they are saying when they have an opinion on a recruit (not including myself in that group by the way).

Do you think the big southern programs have to deal with the local newspaper shooting them in the foot on the recruiting trail?? I seriously seriously doubt it. would not be tolerated.

 

[RMH44]

Syracuse.com is only giving what their audience wants, particularly at this time of year. People want to read about recruiting and recruits. He probably should leave off the grade, but with out recruiting analysis what else is he going to report on in May/June?

In spite being a complete buffoon, Cohen has written a couple of nice profile pieces on incoming players. He also did a fine job with his story about the new staff.

He should continue with stories along this line rather than making a complete a$$ of himself by evaluating recruits. He simply hasn't a clue and, IMO, it's very bad taste assigning letter grades to HS players that have yet to play a down of football in their senior year.

 

[PhatOrange]

This kid looks pretty sick. I like his style.

 

[texascpa]

We don't get paid for posting our nonsense.

My posts are priceless.

 

[Sudano]

Let's not go overboard on this. Its like we're all new to the internet. Opinions are all over the place. Numerous recruiting websites, blogs, newspapers have grades and scouting reports on all these players too and they're just uber fans like alot of us. If you read what he actually wrote and not concentrated on the 5% that may have been interpreted as negative his 'film study' was very glowing and positive. I've been evaluating athletic talent for decades and it was pretty basic and accurate opinion. Of course there were a few lines that I disagreed with or without knowing context I questioned. Welcome to the Internet where instant opinion is the norm. With that said I do agreed it did cross the line of some inexperience trying to be someone he's not. It showed in his writing and particularly the length and context. I wish he'd tone it down a bit knowing he's a reporter and not an evaluator and cut his opinion of the video in half and cut the grades out which mean nothing. Grades are objective in nature not subjective. We also have to remember Syracuse.com has the same connection to Syracuse University as 'Troy Nunes', Orange Fizz, and the opinion of players on this site. I like that at least they're compiling a list of recruits, posting videos on them, putting a few lines of their opinion and let me know what offers or teams interested. That I like and think its the right role a new kid should take on the local newspaper covering recruiting for 'our team'.

 

[jekelish]

Let's not go overboard on this. Its like we're all new to the internet. Opinions are all over the place. Numerous recruiting websites, blogs, newspapers have grades and scouting reports on all these players too and they're just uber fans like alot of us. If you read what he actually wrote and not concentrated on the 5% that may have been interpreted as negative his 'film study' was very glowing and positive. I've been evaluating athletic talent for decades and it was pretty basic and accurate opinion. Of course there were a few lines that I disagreed with or without knowing context I questioned. Welcome to the Internet where instant opinion is the norm. With that said I do agreed it did cross the line of some inexperience trying to be someone he's not. It showed in his writing and particularly the length and context. I wish he'd tone it down a bit knowing he's a reporter and not an evaluator and cut his opinion of the video in half and cut the grades out which mean nothing. Grades are objective in nature not subjective. We also have to remember Syracuse.com has the same connection to Syracuse University as 'Troy Nunes', Orange Fizz, and the opinion of players on this site. I like that at least they're compiling a list of recruits, posting videos on them, putting a few lines of their opinion and let me know what offers or teams interested. That I like and think its the right role a new kid should take on the local newspaper covering recruiting for 'our team'.

Nice try, Michael Cohen.

Also, aren't you a little young to be Nick Sudano's biggest fan, Cohen?

 

[Sudano]

Nice try, Michael Cohen.

Also, aren't you a little young to be Nick Sudano's biggest fan, Cohen?

You're right 'We should have no opinions on recruits on any Syracuse fan website EVER'!!!

 

[cuseinchina]

Let's not go overboard on this. Its like we're all new to the internet. Opinions are all over the place. Numerous recruiting websites, blogs, newspapers have grades and scouting reports on all these players too and they're just uber fans like alot of us. If you read what he actually wrote and not concentrated on the 5% that may have been interpreted as negative his 'film study' was very glowing and positive. I've been evaluating athletic talent for decades and it was pretty basic and accurate opinion. Of course there were a few lines that I disagreed with or without knowing context I questioned. Welcome to the Internet where instant opinion is the norm. With that said I do agreed it did cross the line of some inexperience trying to be someone he's not. It showed in his writing and particularly the length and context. I wish he'd tone it down a bit knowing he's a reporter and not an evaluator and cut his opinion of the video in half and cut the grades out which mean nothing. Grades are objective in nature not subjective. We also have to remember Syracuse.com has the same connection to Syracuse University as 'Troy Nunes', Orange Fizz, and the opinion of players on this site. I like that at least they're compiling a list of recruits, posting videos on them, putting a few lines of their opinion and let me know what offers or teams interested. That I like and think its the right role a new kid should take on the local newspaper covering recruiting for 'our team'.

Totally agree that it is good to see off season coverage of football in general and coverage of recruiting specifically. I just strongly believe that the local newspaper reporters should stick to reporting and not opining on the recruits. That's what reporters do, they gather information and include the opinions of other pertinent people, but they don't share opinions of their own unless the piece is clearly labeled as editorial. There is a difference between Nunes/Fizz/syracusefan and the local newspapers online outlet - expectations should be different and content should be different given that their journalistic mandate is inherently different as it is tied to the local newspaper. Blurring the lines between newspaper and blog is a very very bad idea. I'll ask the question again - do people think the southern ACC football powerhouses have to deal with local newspaper reporters rating and potentially chasing away recruits?? Maybe so but I seriously doubt it. The local paper shouldn't be a booster, it should be objective - but at the same time you expect to get a bit of love from the local paper and not constant headline grabbing nonsense. I'd love to read articles about the recruits that have interesting background information and pertinent outside opinions. But I don't have any need for uninformed evaluation from the reporter who is supposed to objectively report stories of interest.