Final Net Points, etc. 2019 Part 2 |

Final Net Points, etc. 2019 Part 2


Bored Historian
Aug 26, 2011
Historical SU Basketball Comparisons

Here is a comparison to statistically comparable players from past SU teams who played the same positon.


Paschal Chukwu
As a senior 19.5m 8.7p 10.7r 0.5a 1.4s 3.4b 24.7+ 1.1mfg 1.6mft 1.9to 6.0pf 10.6- = 14.1NP 6.0OE 8.1FG

Darryl Watkins
As a sophomore 14.0m 10.4p 9.6r 1.2a 0.7s 4.1b 26.0+ 2.9mfg 1.4mft 1.6to 6.0pf 11.9- = 14.1NP 6.1OE 8.0FG

Conrad McRae
As a junior 29.4m 11.8p 8.4r 1.2a 2.0s 3.3b +26.7 3.6mfg 2.5mft 1.3to 5.3pf -12.7 = 14.0NP 5.7OE 8.3FG

Craig Forth
As a senior 19.5m 9.5p 10.5r 1.1a 1.3s 2.2b 24.6+ 3.2mfg 1.1mft 1.4to 4.5pf 10.2- = 14.4NP 5.2OE 9.2FG

Comment: Mookie seems a good match here. A big, long guy who never seemed to live up to expectations, largely due to a lack of consistency. Conrad was “NcNasty” who had an aggressive edge to his playing and was talented enough to made a Laettner-like shot to beat Villanova, a play Paschal could never dream of making. Forth set telephone pole-like picks and ran the defense, shouting out instructions like Peyton Manning. We expect so much from big guys that it’s hard for them to deliver everything we want.

Bourama Sidibe
As a sophomore 8.6m 7.5p 10.5r 0.7a 2.0s 1.9b 22.6+ 3.0mfg 3.5mft 1.2to 9.3pf 17.0- = 5.6NP 1.0OE 4.6FG

Dave Siock
As a senior 9.5m 11.2p 5.0r 0.8a 1.8s 1.3b +20.1 4.5mfg 0.2mft 1.9to 7.8pf -14.4 = 5.7NP 6.5OE -0.8FG

Richard Manning
As a sophomore 12.5m 10.0p 6.9r 0.9a 0.8s 1.6b +20.2 5.5mfg 0.6mft 2.8to 5.6pf -14.5= 5.7NP 3.9OE.1.8FG

DaShonte Riley
As a freshman 4.5m 5.9p 6.6r 2.8a 0.5s 4.1b 19.9+ 1.5mfg 1.5mft 3.1to 7.1pf 13.2- = 6.7NP 2.9OE 3.8FG

Comment: Riley’s Net Points are farther away from Sidibe than Siock’s and Manning’s but I believe he’s the best match because his offensive efficiency is well below his floor game. He’s also a better rebounder than scorer. But he can’t block shots as Riley did. Bourama misses more free throws than these guys and his fouling is off the charts. Still, I believe he has more talent than these guys and he should be doing much better. These aren’t the comparisons we should be making for Bourama but it’s where the numbers lead up.


Oshae Brissett
As a sophomore 33.0m 15.1p 9.1r 2.2a 1.2s 1.0b 28.6+ 8.1mfg 1.8mft 2.5to 2.5pf 14.9- = 13.7NP 5.2OE 8.5FG

Todd Burgan
As a junior 33.8m 17.9p 9.0r 3.1a 1.9s 0.3b +32.2 9.1mfg 1.8mft 4.0to 3.4pf -18.3 = 13.9NP 7.0OE 6.9FG

Damone Brown
Asa sophomore 24.7m 15.4p 8.8r 1.3a 1.4s 1.1b +28.0 6.3mfg 0.7mft 2.1to 4.8pf -13.9 = 14.1NP 8.4OE 5.7FG

Hakim Warrick
Asa freshman 17.4m 14.0p 11.0r 1.2a 1.3s 1.4b +28.9 5.0mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 4.7pf -14.7 = 14.2NP 6.6OE 7.6FG

Comment: Brissett doesn’t have quite the length of Brown or Warrick so maybe Burgan is the best comparison, although Oshae was probably a bit more athletic.

Elijah Hughes
As a sophomore 32.6m 16.8p 5.3r 1.8a 1.5s 1.0b 26.4+ 7.7mfg 0.9mft 2.6to 2.3pf 13.5- = 12.9NP 8.2OE 4.7F

Luke Jackson
As a senior 29.4m 15.2p 5.7r 2.3a 2.3s 1.4b +26.9 6.4mfg 0.7mft 2.6to 4.4pf -14.1 = 12.8NP 8.1OE 4.7FG

James Southerland
As a sophomore 14.1m 13.7p 6.4r 1.3a 1.4s 1.6b 24.4+ 7.0mfg 0.3mft 0.6to 3.5pf 11.4- = 13.0NP 6.4OE 6.6FG

C. J. Fair
As a senior 37.8m 17.5p 6.8r 1.3a 1.3s 0.8b = 27.7+ 9.0mfg 1.2mft 2.6to 2.2pf = 15.0- = 12.7NP 7.3OE 5.4FG

Comment: Jackson is almost a perfect statistical match but I don’t remember him as an outstanding outside shooter and Hughes became almost nothing but as the season progressed. I think Elijah has a better upside Jackson built his way up to that level of productivity as a senior. This will have bene Hughes worst year in Orange. Southerland was taller than Hughes and even better outside shooter. It was most of his game whereas I think Hughes is capable of more than that. Fair is probably the best comparison but even there, I think Hughes was the better shooter. He would need to improve his driving ability to match C.J. in that department. I think he will.

Marek Dolezaj
As a sophomore 21.7m 7.7p 6.5r 2.9a 2.3s 0.9b 20.3+ 2.2mfg 1.0mft 2.1to 5.1pf 10.4- = 7.5NP 4.5OE 5.4FG

Ron Payton
As a junior 12.2m 13.1p 7.7r 2.1a 1.0s 0.9b 24.8+ 4.6mfg 2.5mft 4.0to 6.1pf 6.1- = NP: 7.6 OE: 6.0 FG: 1.6

Herman Harried
As a sophomore 7.8m 10.7p 9.9r 2.6a 1.2s 2.8b 27.2+ 4.3mfg 3.1mft 3.9to 8.2pf 19.5- = 7.7NP 3.3OE 4.4FG

Tyler Roberson
As a freshman 8.1m 10.6p 9.4r 1.2a 1.0s 1.0b = 23.2+ 8.1mfg 1.7mft 1.7to 4.2pf = 15.7- = 7.5NP 0.8OE 6.7FG

Comment: You’re right. Despite some numerical similarities, none of these guys are anything like Marek. That’s the problem: how do you use a guy in your scheme of things when his skill set is completely different than anyone else you’ve had. He’s actually more like Leo Rautins with some of Kristoff Ongenaetadded in. But both were physically tougher, more aggressive and productive as a result. Leo’s NP ranged from 14.6-21.3 and Kristof’s from 11.5-14.4.

Robert Braswell
As a freshman 1.6m 18.9p 7.3r 3.6a 4.4s 0.7b 34.9+ 2.9mfg 2.2mft 5.1to 1.5pf 11.7- 23.2NP 13.8OE 9.6FG

Chris Lewis
As a sophomore 7.1m 26.5p 13.1r 1.9a 1.5s 0.4b 43.4+ 8.6mfg 6.0mft 5.2to 4.9pf 24.7- = 18.7np 11.9oe 6.8fg

Eric Williams
Asa sophomore 12.5m 17.8p 10.9r 3.2a 2.3s 0.9b +35.1 5.9mfg 0.7mft 4.1to 4.3pf -15.0 = 20.1NP 11.2OE 8.9FG

Mookie Jones
As a freshman 5.1m 22.1p 6.0r 2.9a 2.7s 0.9b 34.6+ 8.7mfg 1.3mft 2.7to 3.1pf 15.8- = 18.8NP 12.1OE 6.7FG

Comment: All these guys put up big numbers in limited time against reserves and walk-ons. Lewis, (who I don’t even remember), Williams, (who was always in JB’s doghouse because he came up small against the better teams), and Jones never had anything like the careers these numbers suggest. I have high hopes for Braswell, (not the lack of negatives), and think that in future years he’ll be compared to an entirely different set of players.


Tyus Battle
As a junior 36.3m 18.9p 3.6r 2.8a 1.3s 0.3b 26.9+ 8.5mfg 1.4mft 2.0to 2.3pf 14.2- = 12.7NP 9.0OE 3.7FG

Eric Devendorf
As a sophomore 30.9m 19.1p 3.5r 5.4a 1.6s 0.4b 30.0+ 9.1mfg 1.1mft 4.0to 3.4pf 17.6- = 12.4NP 8.9OE 3.5FG

Brandon Triche
As a freshman 21.3m 15.2p 3.4r 5.3a 1.6s 0.1b 25.6+ 5.4mfg 1.6mft 3.8to 2.4pf 13.2- = 12.4NP 8.2OE 4.2FG

Dion Waiters
As a freshman 16.3m 16.1p 3.8r 3.6a 2.7s 0.3b 26.5+ 8.1mfg 0.6mft 2.2to 3.3pf 14.2- = 12.3NP 7.4OE 4.9FG

Comment: Devo might be the best match here, although Eric was better at both getting to the basket and shooting from the arc. Tyus had the better mid-range game. Brandon was a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none guy and there’s some similarity there. Dion obviously had the greater upside. He was operating in low gear that first year.

Frank Howard
As a senior 26.9m 13.2p 2.9r 4.3a 2.2s 0.2b 22.8+ 7.9mfg 0.5mft 3.3to 3.0pf 14.7- = 8.1NP 4.8OE 3.3FG

Michael Gbinije
As a junior 4.6m 9.3p 4.8r 3.3a 2.0s 0.6b = 20.0+ 4.6mfg 1.4mft 1.4to 4.5pf = 11.9- = 8.1NP 3.3OE 4.8FG

Louis McCroskey
As a sophomore 19.9m 11.2p 5.9r 2.4a 1.7s 0.1b 21.3+ 6.9mfg 1.2mft 2.4to 2.7pf 13.2- = 8.1NP 3.1OE 5.0FG

Tony Bland
As a freshman 15.7m 11.3p 3.5r 4.1a 2.2s 0.6b +21.7 5.7mfg 1.3mft 3.7to 2.8pf -13.5 = 8.2NP 4.3OE 3.9FG

Comment: Bland might be the best comparison here. Gbinije was a small forward at this point. Louie was one of our best rebounding guards. Bland was more purely a shooter, which is what Frank became as a senior. I don’t think “Tony Bland as a freshman” was what we were going for with Frank this year.

Buddy Boeheim
As a freshman 16.1m 15.9p 3.8r 2.4a 1.3s 0.2b 23.6+ 8.6mfg 0.5mft 1.8to 2.8pf 13.7- = 9.9NP 6.8OE 3.1FG

Michael Brown
As a freshman 23.4m 14.3p 3.9r 2.3a 1.4s 0.2b 22.1+ 6.0mfg 0.2mft 2.8to 3.1pf 12.1- = 10.0NP 8.1OE 1.9FG

Marius Janulis
A a junior 26.5m 14.1p 5.7r 2.5a 0.9s0.0b +23.2 6.4mfg 0.6mft 2.2to 4.2pf -13.4 = 9.8NP 7.1OE 2.7FG

Tony Bland
As a sophomore 20.9m 12.8p 3.1r 3.3a 2.0s 0.6b +21.8 6.5mfg 0.7mft 2.2to 2.3pf -11.7 = 10.1NP 5.6OE 4.5FG

Comments: Michael brown is pretty close. One wonders what he might have developed into if he has stayed. Buddy’s already a better player than Janulis ever was, although Marius as a junior might have bene more clutch. That will come. Bland fits in here, too. That happens when you are bland.

Jalen Carey
As a freshman 9.0m 11.4p 5.1r 3.3a 2.1s 0.5b = 22.4- 5.9mfg 2.0mft 5.4to 1.6pf = 14.9- = 7.5NP 3.5OE 4.0FG

Michael Edwards
Asa sophomore 26.2m 12.0p 2.3r 4.0a 1.1s 0.1b +19.5 7.0mfg 0.6mft 3.3to 2.1pf -13.0 = 6.5NP 4.4OE 2.1FG

Lazarus Sims
As a sophomore 9.7m 5.4p 4.6r 8.0a 0.2s 2.2b +20.4 5.6mfg 0.5mft 4.1to 2.5pf -12.7= 7.7NP -0.7OE 8.4FG

Kaleb Joseph
As a freshman 27.3m 8.7p 3.2r 5.6a 1.3s 0.1b = 18.9+ 5.3mfg 0.8mft 3.4to 2.7pf = 12.2- = 6.7NP 2.6OE 4.1FG

Comments: I don’t think Carey is Edwards or Joseph but he’ll have to fight off a lot of guys to prove that he isn’t. He’s not the big, strong guard that Z Sims was but he actually got more rebounds. Can he distribute the ball? Can he hold onto it? Like Braswell, I think Jalen will be compared to other players in future years.

In my system I somewhat arbitrarily consider a player who averages 10NP per 40 minutes to be a solid starter and a player who averages 20NP to be an All-American caliber player. This year we had four “solid starters” in Paschal Chukwu (14.1), Oshae Brissett (13.7) Elijah Hughes (12.9) and Tyus Battle (12.7) plus a 5th if you round it off (Buddy Boeheim was at 9.9). That was a decent line-up but there was no All-Americans in it, guys who could really carry the team. Here’s a list of the number of “solid starters” and the All-Americans on each team since 1980-81, (I don’t have complete numbers for prior seasons). I’ll abbreviate the year by just using the second year, (1980-81 is ‘1981’)

1981 7 starters AA: Danny Schayes 20.3NP
1982 6 starters
1983 7 starters AA: Leo Rautins 21.3NP and Eric Santifer 21.0NP
1984 7 starters
1985 5 starters
1986 7 starters AA: Pearl Washington 20.9NP, Sherman Douglas 20.7, Wendell Alexis 20.3 and Rafael Addison 20.1NP
1987 5 starters AA: Rony Seikaly 22.4NP and Sherman Douglas 21.1NP
1988 7 starters AA: Derrick Coleman 27.3NP and Ronnie Seikaly 21.1NP
1989 7 starters AA: Derrick Coleman 28.5NP and Sherman Douglas 20.3NP
1990 5 starters AA: Derek Coleman 26.7NP and Billy Owens 22.3NP
1991 6 starters AA: Billy owns 26.1NP
1992 3 starters
1993 7 starters
1994 6 starters AA: John Wallace 20.3NP
1995 9 starters AA: John Wallace 22.7NP
1996 6 starters AA: John Wallace 22.6NP
1997 6 starters
1998 4 starters
1999 6 starters AA: Etan Thomas 21.9NP Eric Williams 20.1NP
2000 9 starters AA: Etan Thomas 21.8NP
2001 4 starters AA: Damone Brown 20.0NP
2002 8 starters
2003 7 starters AA: Carmelo Anthony 22.9NP
2004 6 starters
2005 6 starters AA: Hakim Warrick 20.5NP
2006 7 starters
2007 5 starters
2008 7 starters
2009 7 starters
2010 9 starters AA: Wes Johnson 22.4NP and Rick Jackson 20.3NP
2011 9 starters AA: Rick Jackson 22.1NP
2012 10 starters!
2013 8 starters
2014 6 starters
2015 4 starters AA: Rakeem Christmas 21.6NP
2016 5 starters
2017 8 starters
2018 5 starters
2019 4 starters

Here is our all-time team, 5 deep, starters only (starter = one of top 5 in m9intues per game), by NP, for the Carrier Dome Era, by positon:


Rony Seikaly (1987)
27.1m 22.2p 12.0r 1.4a 1.1s 3.0b 39.7+ 6.4mfg 3.7mft 2.9to 4.3pf 17.3- = 22.4NP 12.1OE 10.3FG

Rick Jackson (2011)
35.6m 14.7p 11.6r 2.5a 1.5s 2.8b 33.1+ 4.3mfg 2.1mft 2.3to 2.3pf 11.0- = 22.1NP 8.3OE 13.8FG

Etan Thomas (1999)
27.7m 17.7p 10.6r 0.7a 1.2s 5.7b +35.9 4.0mfg 3.5mft 2.5to 4.0pf -14.0 = 21.9NP 10.2OE 11.7FG

Rakeem Christmas (2015)
34.3m 21.6p 10.6r 1.8a 1.1s 2.9b = 36.7+ 6.2mfg 2.1mft 2.9to 3.9pf = 15.1- = 21.6NP 12.0OE 9.6FG

Danny Schayes (1981)
32.6m 17.9p 10.3r 2.3a 0.6s 2.7b 33.8+ 4.3mfg 1.3mft 3.4to 4.5pf 12.3- = NP: 20.3 OE: 12.3 FG: 8.0


Derrick Coleman (1989)
33.1m 20.4p 13.8r 3.5a 1.5s 4.1b 43.3+ 5.5mfg 2.5mft 2.9to 3.9pf 14.8- = 28.5NP 12.4OE 16.1FG

Billy Owens (1991)
38.0m 24.5p 12.2r 3.6a 2.6s 1.2b +44.1 9.0mfg 2.5mft 3.7to 2.8pf -18.0 = 26.1NP 13.0OE 13.1FG

John Wallace (1995)
33.0m 20.4p 9.9r 3.1a 1.6s 2.2b +37.2 5.6mfg 2.0mft 3.7to 3.2pf -14.5 = 22.7NP 12.8OE 9.9FG

Leo Rautins (1983)
31.8m 17.8p 9.2r 7.8a 1.9s 0.5b 37.2+ 6.8mfg 1.0mft 4.5to 3.6pf 15.9- = 21.3np 10.0oe 11.3fg

Hakim Warrick (2005)
37.5m 22.8p 9.2r 1.6a 1.0s 0.8b 35.4+ 6.6mfg 3.1mft 2.7to 2.5pf 14.9- = 20.5NP 13.1OE 7.4FG


Carmelo Anthony (2003)
36.4m 24.4p 11.0r 2.4a 1.7s 0.9b +40.4 10.5mfg 2.2mft 2.4to 2.4pf -17.5 = 22.9NP 11.7OE 11.2FG

Wes Johnson (2010)
35.0m 18.9p 9.8r 2.5a 1.9s 2.1b 35.2+ 6.7mfg 1.1mft 2.6to 2.4pf 12.8- = 22.4NP 11.1OE 11.6FG

Rafael Addison (1986)
31.6m 18.9p 7.1r 5.2a 1.6s 0.6b 33.4+ 7.1mfg 0.7mft 2.8to 2.7pf 13.3- = 20.1NP 11.1OE 9.0FG

Lawrence Moten (1994)
34.8m 24.6p 5.2r 2.5a 2.3s 0.7b +35.3 9.4mfg 1.7mft 2.1to 2.5pf -15.7 = 19.6NP 13.5OE 6.1FG

Dave Johnson (1991)
34.9m 22.2p 7.2r 2.7a 1.8s 0.1b +34.0 8.1mfg 2.4mft 2.4to 2.8pf -15.7 = 18.3NP 11.7OE 6.6FG

Preston Shumpert (2002)
36.9m 22.4p 6.6r 2.5a 2.0s 0.5b +34.0 10.1mfg 1.0mft 2.8to 1.8pf -15.7 = 18.3NP 11.3OE 7.0FG


Erich Santifer (1983)
31.5m 22.7p 6.3r 4.2a 1.9s 0.2b 35.3+ 6.6mfg 1.4mft 3.3to 3.0pf 14.3- = 21.0np 15.2oe 5.8fg

Stevie Thompson (1989)
33.1m 21.7p 6.0r 2.2a 2.4s 0.5b 32.8+ 5.3mfg 2.7mft 2.6to 2.3pf 12.9- = 19.9NP 13.7OE 6.2FG

Dion Waiters (2012)
24.1m 21.0p 3.8r 4.1a 3.0s 0.5b = 32.4+ 8.4mfg 1.4mft 2.2to 3.1pf = 15.1- = 17.3NP 11.2OE 6.1FG

Andy Rautins (2010)
32.5m 14.9p 4.2r 6.0a 2.4s 0.3b 27.8+ 5.8mfg 0.5mft 3.4to 2.7pf 12.4- = 15.4NP 8.6OE 6.8FG

Greg Monroe (1987)
31.0m 16.6p 3.2r 5.2a 1.5s 0.0b 25.0+ 6.4mfg 0.6mft 1.8to 1.7pf 10.5- = 14.5NP 9.6OE 4.9FG


Sherman Douglas (1987)
32.6m 21.3p 3.1r 9.3a 2.1s 0.2b 36.0+ 7.0mfg 1.7mft 3.9to 2.3pf 14.9- = 21.1NP 12.6OE 8.5FG

Pearl Washington (1986)
32.2m 21.5p 3.1r 9.7a 3.2s 0.0b 37.5+ 7.3mfg 1.8mft 4.1to 3.4pf 16.6- = 20.9NP 12.4OE 8.5FG

Billy Edelin (2004)
33.1m 16.7p 5.1r 6.3a 1.6s 0.1b 29.8+ 6.1mfg 2.3mft 2.4to 2.1pf 12.9- = 16.9NP 8.3OE 8.6FG

Adrian Autry (1994)
35.7m 18.7p 5.4r 6.8a 1.8s 0.4b +33.1 8.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 2.9pf -16.3 = 16.8NP 9.6OE 7.2FG

Jonny Flynn (2009)
37.3m 18.7p 2.9r 7.2a 1.5s 0.2b 30.5+ 7.2mfg 1.4mft 3.6to 1.6pf 13.6- = 16.7NP 10.1 OE 6.6FG


Bored Historian
Aug 26, 2011
Here's an update of an old post charting the improvement of four year players in JB's system:

The SU Media Guide lists 100 players who have lettered in all four years they played on the SU basketball team. 71 of them played their entire career since 1980-81 the first season for which the Media Guide has complete numbers. (Freshman were eligible in the early years- apparently through the teens, during the wars and from 1972-73 onward.) Eleven of those were walk-ons, (at least originally), so I dropped them from the listing.

I decided to chart the improvement of those 60 players, in terms of “net points” per forty minutes, (NP is points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks minus missed field goals and free throws, turnovers and fouls), from their freshman to their sophomore years and then look at the top ten greatest improvements from the freshman season to the senior season in greater detail, (breaking down each component stat per 40 minutes). If a player played less than 100 minutes that year, the net points are in parenthesis. The next change from freshman season to senior is shown at the end, (unless they played less than 100 minutes as a freshman).

Rafael Addison 13.8, 18.2, 17.7, 20.1 = +6.3
Wendell Alexis 14.7, 12.9, 16.2, 20.3 = +5.6
Adrian Autry 8.4, 8.7, 14.6, 16.8 = +8.4
Derek Brower (9.2), 8.1, 9.0, 8.4
Damone Brown (9.8), 14.1, 15.9, 20.0
Todd Burgan 10.9, 13.1, 13.9, 16.2 = + 5.3
Billy Celuck (21.8), (10.1), 11.2, 4.5
Rakeem Christmas 12.1, 12.2, 13.8, 21.6 = +9.5
DaJuan Coleman 12.3, 14.5, 12.6, 13.3 = +1.0
Derrick Coleman 19.5, 27.3, 28.5, 26.7 = +7.2
Trevor Cooney 5.9, 11.5, 9.2, 9.5 = +3.6
Eric Devendorf 11.1, 12.4, 13.3, 11.0 = -0.1
(I used his medical redshirt year when he played 10 games)
Sherman Douglas 20.7, 21.1, 19.1, 20.3 = -0.4
Kueth Duany 10.5, 9.8, 13.3, 12.6 =+2.1
Michael Edwards 9.5, 6.5, 6.4, 3.2 = - 6.3
C.J. Fair 15.5, 14.8, 16.3, 12.7 = -2.8
Craig Forth 10.7, 8.2, 14.5, 14.4 = +3.7
Matt Gorman (0.1), (4.8), 9.6, 9.5
Allen Griffin 5.8, 8.0, 10.7, 11.8 = +6.0
Herman Harried -0.3, 7.7, 10.7, 11.8 = +12.1
Jason Hart 10.6, 8.9, 12.8, 12.7 = +2.1
Otis Hill 13.1, 10.6, 16.8, 17.8 = +4.7
Mike Hopkins 10.8, 4.8, 8.4, 10.4 = -0.4
Frank Howard 5.4, 10.8, 9.8, 8.1 = +2.7
Luke Jackson 6.1, 8.4, 11.7, 12.8 = +6.7
Rick Jackson 14.7, 19.2, 20.3, 22.1 = +7.2
Marius Janulis (2.7), 8.3, 9.8, 8.7
Scoop Jardine 9.0, 16.5, 13.0, 12.6 = +3.6
Kris Joseph 8.6, 16.6, 15.8, 14.0 = +5.4
Dave Johnson 6.7, 7.8, 18.3, 14.1 = +7.4
Baye Moussa Keita 11.1, 10.5, 11.7, 8.1 = -3.0
Scott McCorkle 14.1, 7.1, 12.5, 13.2 = -0.9
Gerry McNamara 12.9, 13.6, 13.3, 14.2 = +1.3
Jeremy McNeil 8.0, 12.0, 11.8, 11.0 = +3.0
Conrad McRae 10.6, 14.9, 14.0, 19.1 = +8.5
Greg Monroe 8.6, 7.6, 14.0, 14.5 = +5.9
Lawrence Moten 18.7, 17.4, 19.6, 16.6 = -2.1
Demetris Nichols 5.7, 7.8, 13.2, 17.9 = +12.2
Arinze Onukau 13.5, 17.3, 17.4, 18.5 = +5.0
Elvir Ovcina (14.6), 14.7, 9.0, 9.5
Josh Pace 13.5, 15.2, 13.5, 16.2 = +2.7
Andy Rautins 8.3, 8.9, 11.6, 15.4 = +7.1
JB Reafsnyder (17.1), 8.2, 11.2, 12.5
Tyler Roberson 7.5, 14.5, 15.4, 13.0 = 5.5
Terrence Roberts 4.1, 13.0, 14.5, 14.5 = +10.4
Erik Rogers (3.5), (7.3), (13.7), (6.5)
Rony Seikaly 12.0, 17.0, 22.4, 21.1 = +9.1
Preston Shumpert 11.6, 14.1, 17.5, 18.3 = +6.7
Lazarus Sims 2.8, 7.7, 10.3, 11.8 = +9.0
Dave Siock -0.3, 10.8, 3.8, 6.5 = +6.8
James Southerland 15.7, 13.0, 17.9, 16.4 = +0.7
Sonny Spera 1.9, 7.2, 10.2, (6.5)
Etan Thomas 12.7, 19.5, 21.9, 21.8 = +9.1
Stevie Thompson 9.1, 16.0, 19.9, 15.6 = +6.5
Brandon Triche 12.4, 11.1, 13.9, 11.4 = -1.0
Howie Triche 7.2, (9.7), 12.3, 12.7 = +5.5
John Wallace 16.0, 20.3, 22.7, 22.6 = +6.6
Hakim Warrick 14.2, 10.1, 19.3, 20.5 = +6.3
Darryl Watkins (5.1), 16.4, 13.9, 16.6

The averages per year, counting only those players (50), who played at least 100 minutes in all four years: 10.4, 12.3, 14.2, 14.8. A four year guy will normally be a productive player when he first shows up: he won’t get lost in the crowd early. There is substantial improvement between the freshman and sophomore years but the biggest leap is between the sophomore and junior years. By then, the player is pretty much what he is going to be.

The top ten improvements from freshman to senior:

Demetris Nichols + 12.2
As a freshman:
14.2m 9.9p 5.3r 1.4a 1.4s 1.5b 19.5+ 7.2mfg 0.9mft 1.4to 4.3pf 13.8- = 5.7NP 1.8OE 3.9FG
As a senior:
34.8m 21.8p 6.2r 1.8a 1.6s 1.2b 32.6+ 9.1mfg 0.7mft 2.5to 2.4pf 14.7- = 17.9NP 12.0OE 5.9FG
A tremendous improvement in scoring: he made shots, (he missed a few more, too but he was taking more because so many of them were going in). He improved his rebounding, (which was pretty good for a jump-shooter), and made fewer fouls.

Herman Harried + 12.1
As a freshman:
6.6m 7.4p 8.9r 0.8a 0.5s 0.3b 17.9+ 6.8mfg 3.2mft 3.2to 5.0pf 18.2- = -0.3NP -2.6OE 2.3FG
As a senior:
10.8m 12.0p 10.4r 1.5a 1.7s 0.2b 25.8+ 4.3mfg 2.3 mft 2.3to 5.1pf 14.0- = 11.8NP 5.5OE 6.3FG
Herm was a career reserve but that didn’t mean he didn’t improve during his career. He scored more while missing fewer shots, (they don’t always go together: look at Nichols), He rebounded better, had more assists and steals, cut down on the turnovers and even missed fewer free throws.

Terrence Roberts +10.4
As a freshman:
7.6m 9.3p 9.0r 0.8a 1.9s 1.7b 22.7+ 6.4mfg 1.9mft 2.7to 7.6pf 18.6- = 4.1NP 1.0OE 3.1FG
As a senior:
28.8m 12.4p 11.1r 1.7a 1.3s 1.9b 28.4+ 4.1mfg 2.8mft 2.6to 4.4pf 13.9- = 14.5NP 5.5OE 9.0FG
Terrence was a popular choice on the thread about players who “didn’t pan out”. Often we make up our minds about players from first impressions: Terrence was a pretty good player by the time he was a senior. He just never became a good offensive player, which is what the fans focus on. I remember as a physically strong guy who played good defense and rebounded well. But we wanted a little bit more form our power forward. His stats basically improved across the board in his four years here, except for his free throw shooting.

Rakeem Christmas +9.5
As a freshman:
11.5m 9.6p 10.2r 0.7a 1.0s 2.8b = 24.3+ 3.0mfg 1.1mft 2.2to 5.9pf = 12.2- = 12.1NP 5.5OE 6.6FG
As a senior:
34.3m 21.6p 10.6r 1.8a 1.1s 2.9b = 36.7+ 6.2mfg 2.1mft 2.9to 3.9pf = 15.1- = 21.6NP 12.0OE 9.6FG
Rakeem was always a valuable player. His interior defense, platooning with Baye Keita, was a key to the 2013 Final Four run. But, as big men tend to do, the reduced his fouls as his career went along. And he also developed a productive inside scoring game, the last we have had.

Rony Seikaly +9.1
As a freshman:
25.0m 12.9p 10.2r 0.7a 0.6s 3.0b 27.4+ 4.2mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 6.2pf 15.4- = 12.0NP 6.3OE 5.7FG
As a senior:
31.0m 21.0p 12.4r 0.8a 0.8s 3.1b 38.1+ 6.2mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 3.9pf 17.0- = 21.1NP 11.1OE 10.0FG
A lot of people remember Rony as being awful when he first showed up here but he wasn’t. Like all our young big men he fouled too much but he was productive. He became a much better scoring threat as his career progressed and a better rebounder.

Lazarus Sims +9.0
As a freshman:
7.4m 5.7p 3.0r 6.2a 2.4s 0.0b +17.3 4.6mfg 1.6mft 5.9to 2.4pf -14.5 = 2.8NP -0.5OE 3.3FG
As a senior:
35.6m 7.1p 4.1r 8.3a 1.6s 0.1b +21.2 2.9mfg 0.7mft 3.6to 2.2pf -9.4 = 11.8NP 3.5OE 8.3FG
Sims was never a statistically prolific player. He was never a great scorer: he needed to be surrounded by players who were. But he was a big, strong guard at the top of the zone. He greatly improved his passing, although he still had more turnovers than people remember. He was a turnover machine as a freshman and considerably improved but still had the same number as Scoop Jardine did as a senior. His numbers are very close to Michael Carter-Williams this year, (MCW’s assist to turnover ratio was 8.3/3.9), except he wasn’t a scorer. He was willing to take chances to pass for baskets but not to shoot for them.

Etan Thomas +8.9
As a freshman:
16.3m 14.0p 10.3r 0.3a 0.9s 4.7b +30.2 4.7mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 5.7pf -17.3 = 12.9NP 5.6OE 7.3FG
As a senior:
32.4m 16.8p 11.4r 0.7a 0.9s 4.6b +34.4 4.2mfg 2.0mft 2.5to 3.9pf -12.6 = 21.8NP 10.6OE 11.2FG
As with Rony Seikaly, people remember him as a being terrible when he first showed up but he wasn’t. He never became a big-time scorer because he lacked a jump shot but he was a good inside guy and improved his rebounding and free-throw shooting while cutting down on the fouls. He was also one of the best shot blockers we’ve had, using his left hand so he wouldn’t have to reach across most player’s bodies to get to the ball.

Conrad McRae +8.5
As a freshman:
9.3m 8.4p 8.6r 1.1a 1.1s 4.3b +23.5 2.4mfg 2.4mft 0.5to 7.6pf -12.9 = 10.6NP 3.6OE 7.0FG
As a senior:
30.0m 16.4p 9.2r 0.6a 1.6s 3.6b +31.4 4.9mfg 1.0mft 2.1to 4.3pf -12.3 = 19.1NP 10.5OE 8.6FG
People often talk about Conrad as if he were some kind of “flop”. Again, I think they confuse big scoring and quality play and tend to remember him more form the first time we saw him. He put up some serious numbers as a senior, although he probably could rebounded a bit better. I would love to have had him this year. Like all big men he had to cut down on the fouls and became a better scorer over his career. Surprisingly he had more turnovers but has a better scorer, he saw more of the ball on offense. He missed more shots for the same reason. He was a great shot-blocker but his blocks went down slightly through his career as he became more selective and a better overall defender.

Adrian Autry +8.4
As a freshman:
33.2m 11.7p 3.1r 6.4a 2.4s 0.2b +23.8 6.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 4.0pf -15.4 = 8.4NP 4.6OE 3.8FG
As a senior:
35.7m 18.7p 5.4r 6.8a 1.8s 0.4b +33.1 8.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 2.9pf -16.3 = 16.8NP 9.6OE 7.2FG
Adrian came here as a highly rated point guard and was a big disappointment his first two years, ((8.4NP and 8.9NP). But then he became one of the best we’ve had, (14.6NP and 16.8NP). He was another big guard at the top of the zone. He wasn’t quite the passer MCW was but a better shooter, as Missouri found out in his final game, when he scored all 30 of his points after halftime in an overtime loss. He vastly improved his scoring in his career here but also became a strong rebounder from the guard position, (MCW was 5.5 per 40 minutes this year: Autry was 2 inches shorter and almost matched that as a senior. He missed more shots but was taking more as well. And he reduced his fouls, always the sign of a maturing player.

Rick Jackson +7.4
As a freshman:
12.9m 11.5p 9.3r 1.7a 1.3s 3.9b 27.7+ 4.1mfg 2.2mft 2.8to 3.9pf 13.0- = 14.7NP 5.2OE 9.5FG
As a senior:
35.6m 14.7p 11.6r 2.5a 1.5s 2.8b 33.1+ 4.3mfg 2.1mft 2.3to 2.3pf 11.0- = 22.1NP 8.3OE 13.8FG
Rick didn’t have one stat where he improved sharply: he got better across the board. He did block fewer shots, probably because he was played more at forward as a senior. And, of course, he committed fewer fouls, although that was not as big a problem when he was a freshman as it was for other SU big men, perhaps because JB was using more and more zone by then.

Dave Johnson +7.4
As a freshman:
14.6m 11.5p 5.5r 2.7a 1.3s 0.3b 21.3+ 5.2mfg 2.4mft 1.8to 5.2pf 14.6- = 6.7NP 3.9OE 2.8FG
As a senior:
37.9m 20.9p 7.4r 1.6a 1.6s 0.4b +31.9 9.7mfg 2.0mft 2.9to 3.2pf -17.8 = 14.1NP 9.2OE 4.9FG
Always an explosive athlete, Johnson found an outside shot as a junior, (and had an even better year than he did as a senior, (18.3NP). He also learned to use his strength and jumping ability to become a force on the boards. He missed a lot more shots, again because he was taking a lot more but, again, he reduced his fouls significantly. Jim Boeheim said DJ did the best dunk he’s ever seen: a 360 form the foul line to terminate one practice session, (nobody could follow that).


Living Legend
Aug 27, 2011
Off the chart amazing information. Thank you for all of the time and effort you put into your post. I truly appreciate it.

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