Has Boeheim forgotten what he learned in 2003?

[DomeStranger]

In my opinion, one of the things that made the 2003 team so great was their ability to play loose. It also seemed that JB allowed his players to play though mistakes and bad shots more than any other year in his career. I believe this was partially because of Carmello and GMAC that would take some questionable shots during the game that would have gotten most players yanked. However, these two were different because not only did a high percentage of these shots actually go in, but taking them out of the game wouldn't have helped the team any. These two also knew full well what they were doing and knew how to "tighten up" their shot selection as the game mandated. This level of trust may have caused some "bad shots" to be taken, but also gave the players a higher level of confidence, especially when those "bad shots" went through the hoop.

After the successful 2003 season JB figured this was the way to go and gave players "green lights" and let them play their game without fearing a mistake or two would put them on the bench for 10 mintues. This theory had some mixed results over the years and seems to have been losing it's hold every year since then.

This year, our depth has brought back "the hook". Anytime, one of the players makes a less than perfect play and misses a shot or a rebound, the first thing they do is look to the bench as if expecting to see JB point to their replacement on the bench. I believe the players may be playing tight because of this and don't have that higher level of confidence that they all need.

Last night, against Notre Dame, a player with confidence would have scored at will against a slow ND team that was a half step behind our offense in the half court. A shooter with the "green light" like Rautins would have had a field day. Plenty of time all night to catch and shoot or catch and drive but everybody on the court was hesitant enough that by the time they realized they had a shot the ND defenders closed in. Everybody was looking for the perfect shot and perfect pass which ND was good at not allowing.

Now after this long post I realize we have rolled through 20 wins and am not saying any drastic changes should be made. This is just an observation at how our depth this year has had a little bit of a negative effect for games like this one.

What do you all think? Do you think the players are playing tight? Are the players on a shorter leash than usual? Should certain players have the "green light"? Would it benefit us from trying to change this late in the season?

 

[Oakland]

In my opinion, one of the things that made the 2003 team so great was their ability to play loose. It also seemed that JB allowed his players to play though mistakes and bad shots more than any other year in his career. I believe this was partially because of Carmello and GMAC that would take some questionable shots during the game that would have gotten most players yanked. However, these two were different because not only did a high percentage of these shots actually go in, but taking them out of the game wouldn't have helped the team any. These two also knew full well what they were doing and knew how to "tighten up" their shot selection as the game mandated. This level of trust may have caused some "bad shots" to be taken, but also gave the players a higher level of confidence, especially when those "bad shots" went through the hoop.

After the successful 2003 season JB figured this was the way to go and gave players "green lights" and let them play their game without fearing a mistake or two would put them on the bench for 10 mintues. This theory had some mixed results over the years and seems to have been losing it's hold every year since then.

This year, our depth has brought back "the hook". Anytime, one of the players makes a less than perfect play and misses a shot or a rebound, the first thing they do is look to the bench as if expecting to see JB point to their replacement on the bench. I believe the players may be playing tight because of this and don't have that higher level of confidence that they all need.

Last night, against Notre Dame, a player with confidence would have scored at will against a slow ND team that was a half step behind our offense in the half court. A shooter with the "green light" like Rautins would have had a field day. Plenty of time all night to catch and shoot or catch and drive but everybody on the court was hesitant enough that by the time they realized they had a shot the ND defenders closed in. Everybody was looking for the perfect shot and perfect pass which ND was good at not allowing.

Now after this long post I realize we have rolled through 20 wins and am not saying any drastic changes should be made. This is just an observation at how our depth this year has had a little bit of a negative effect for games like this one.

What do you all think? Do you think the players are playing tight? Are the players on a shorter leash than usual? Should certain players have the "green light"? Would it benefit us from trying to change this late in the season?

It seemed to me that the team was 'out of it' in the first half, probably because of the Melo and Mookie distractions. The second half was different.

 

[OttoMets]

If the threat of the hook caused certain guys to play tight, then I'd hate to see how much Joseph dribbles or how many wild forces Dion takes without the threat of the hook.

Joseph in particular looks miserable on the court, but I don't know that leaving him in to make more mistakes is the proper remedy.

It's less fun when we don't play well.

 

[orange03]

While I would like everybody to play loose and not be afraid of making mistakes, you tend to coach differently when you have a Melo Anthony on the roster.

 

[swish7]

I don't completely agree with your post. But I do absolutely agree that the team played very tight last night. Especially in the first half.

Is Jb to blame for this, I don't know.

I think that KJ deserved all the hooks that he got last night. that was a big reason we lost. Leaders should not make the turn overs he made.

 

[DomeStranger]

While I would like everybody to play loose and not be afraid of making mistakes, you tend to coach differently when you have a Melo Anthony on the roster.

Absolutely ... but it seemed to have carried over even after Anthony left, JB definitely got "looser" and more comfortable with letting his team play.

 

[DomeStranger]

I don't completely agree with your post. But I do absolutely agree that the team played very tight last night. Especially in the first half.

Is Jb to blame for this, I don't know.

I think that KJ deserved all the hooks that he got last night. that was a big reason we lost. Leaders should not make the turn overs he made.

Yes, KJ was lost last night and sometimes you just know a player is not going to play through their problems. The box score showed 2 TO's which seemed like he had at least 5.

I don't know if JB is too blame either. It seems most the players on the team have some kind of "nervousness" about them. Scoop seems to be the only one who doesn't let nerves bother him but he doesn't have the physical talents the others do.

 

[AZOrange]

JB has always (at least always since I can remember) let his guys play, so long as they play good basketball. There is no way this team can use the excuse that they were "nervous"...they just stunk. They missed open shots and they were dominated by a sub-athletic cro-magnon (where the does Brey find these guys anyway).

 

[samspann1]

They missed open shots and they were dominated by a sub-athletic cro-magnon (where the does Brey find these guys anyway).

they're cloned in some basement in Elkhart, Indiana. They all seem to have the game goofy 1950s haircut, too.

 

[Ghost]

I didn't think they looked tight, just lost. Every drive resulted in an awkward shot, I don't know if that's because Melo does a better job of being available for the pass or what, but every time they went in it was a black-hole. We can't screen and roll up top because Baye can't catch a cold, and Rak just doesn't seem to present himself as much of an option.

In the chat I didn't think we could force the tempo much against ND, but when the zone got more aggressive it definitely helped. Once we pressured them and made them react instead of just carrying out their offensive game-plan (which is pretty offensive - thank god we have a shot clock or ND would just refuse to shoot altogether) they seemed to struggle a bit more. The exit plan most of the time once we picked it up was to get it to Cooley and have him elbow the out of everyone within 10 feet.

All things considered it was poor performance, not sure I would chalk it up to them being tight as much as we had a few too many guys that thought they were capable of stepping it up and taking over when they aren't really that "dude" yet.

 

[AZOrange]

I didn't think they looked tight, just lost. Every drive resulted in an awkward shot, I don't know if that's because Melo does a better job of being available for the pass or what, but every time they went in it was a black-hole. We can't screen and roll up top because Baye can't catch a cold, and Rak just doesn't seem to present himself as much of an option.

In the chat I didn't think we could force the tempo much against ND, but when the zone got more aggressive it definitely helped. Once we pressured them and made them react instead of just carrying out their offensive game-plan (which is pretty offensive - thank god we have a shot clock or ND would just refuse to shoot altogether) they seemed to struggle a bit more. The exit plan most of the time once we picked it up was to get it to Cooley and have him elbow the **** out of everyone within 10 feet.

All things considered it was poor performance, not sure I would chalk it up to them being tight as much as we had a few too many guys that thought they were capable of stepping it up and taking over when they aren't really that "dude" yet.

When I saw Baye fumble that easy pass up top early on...I knew it was going to be a long night.

 

[AZOrange]

they're cloned in some basement in Elkhart, Indiana. They all seem to have the game goofy 1950s haircut, too.

Its remarkable. I wonder if they actually have that box on their checklist every year..."ok, who is our big goofy dude this year?" I would rather lose a game by 100 to Duke than lose to teams wielding players like this.

 

[Ghost]

When I saw Baye fumble that easy pass up top early on...I knew it was going to be a long night.

lol...I thought his hands were horrendous before that moment, but that pretty much cemented that he has the worst hands in Syracuse basketball history. Watkins could have caught that pass blindfolded. A young Etan could have pinned that one between his chin/chest if both his hands were tied behind his back. That was definitely a "WOW" moment.

 

[AZOrange]

lol...I thought his hands were horrendous before that moment, but that pretty much cemented that he has the worst hands in Syracuse basketball history. Watkins could have caught that pass blindfolded. A young Etan could have pinned that one between his chin/chest if both his hands were tied behind his back. That was definitely a "WOW" moment.

i think he damn near lost it out of bounds

 

[Madbiker]

He had a great half court offense in 2003. It was called "give it to Carmelo". Get the ball to Melo and get the other 4 guys out of the way. Isolation plays. He either scores or gets fouled. I don't think the half court offense has changed in any way before or since. It's just that we don't have Carmelo.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I agree the ND game seemed to be an aberration in terms of how JB reacted to certain plays/players. Kris, in particular. But, the OP is a lot about hindsight. JB, during that 2003 season in which you suggest he was 'looser,' did not know he was coaching a team that was going to win the NC. We weren't in fact, the best team in the country at any point in the season - until the last game, perhaps. We weren't even the best team in the Big East.

I got the feeling in the ND game that JB just really sensed we were 'off,' besides missing Melo, and he was more frantic in his sense of urgency. I don't think it's a trend, and i'm not worried about that particular aspect. What IS important is figuring out the rebounding issue, and figuring out that the other teams have discovered a series of 'blueprints' toward beating us. It isn't that complicated. ND, however, DID need a lot of good fortune (some lucky 3s) and the home crowd to make it work on a day when we were clearly not us/SU.